Combat looks very stiff

[Omians]

Except that then there would be no beta, ever. They would spend huge amounts of money on lawyers trying to control something that can't really be controlled. And the companies would have to internally test everything. Guess which option is more profitable to them?

dont have to control it but they can scare you into not breaking NDA

[zealous]

dont have to control it but they can scare you into not breaking NDA

Yeah, they rely mostly on psychological effect of the agreement.

Suing the beta testers would not only be an exercise in futility (there's lots of them, most don't have any money to go after) but it's also very bad press.

You could not get a job anywhere, because they check criminal record at most that you can work. You might think its exaggerating but its reality.

Breaking the NDA is not a criminal offense.

[DaGhostDS]

Yeah, they rely mostly on psychological effect of the agreement.

Suing the beta testers would not only be an exercise in futility (there's lots of them, most don't have any money to go after) but it's also very bad press.



Breaking the NDA is not a criminal offense.

Ive heard of a few persons at my workplace that got sued by the QA contract giver for NDA breach. The guy had to bankrupt btw, now hes probably having problem finding a job too.

So officially its illegal, do they enforce it? Not really (except for internal testers but that's another story) like you said its bad bad press.

example of what you would have to pay and what could happen: http://law.freeadvice.com/general_pr...ies_breach.htm

[zealous]

Ive heard of a few persons at my workplace that got sued by the QA contract giver for NDA breach. The guy had to bankrupt btw, now hes probably having problem finding a job too.

So officially its illegal, do they enforce it? Not really (except for internal testers but that's another story) like you said its bad bad press.

example of what you would have to pay and what could happen: http://law.freeadvice.com/general_pr...ies_breach.htm

Getting sued =/= criminal offense.

That would be a civil suit, not a criminal one. Criminal offense - you go to prison. Civil suit - they take all your money and your last pair of pants.

Employees get sued on the basis of an NDA breach all the time, in most cases even. Beta testers in games - almost never.

[DaGhostDS]

Getting sued =/= criminal offense.

That would be a civil suit, not a criminal one. Criminal offense - you go to prison. Civil suit - they take all your money and your last pair of pants.

Employees get sued on the basis of an NDA breach all the time, in most cases even. Beta testers in games - almost never.

Never heard of anything except official letter from a lawyer and getting a ban for public testers.
WE might be going off-topic not like we can save this thread its stopped making sense after the 3rd page.

[Difuid]

It is easy to be negative about animations, you would expect at least from the force users to use the fluid animations you see in the movies, cartoons, trailers to some extent. They are always in motion while in combat, but when you see a jedi/sith staring at the other player lightsaber in hand waiting for GCD or auto attack really kills the immersion.

[Improvedlol]

PvP is so bad, its only dumping dmg in your enemies. There's no my enemy does X so I will do Y to counter it. Like I'm about to get shattered combo so I cloak of shadow... etc its very boring to me that there's no reactionary ability like in wow, definitely not buying it.

[zealous]

Never heard of anything except official letter from a lawyer and getting a ban for public testers.
WE might be going off-topic not like we can save this thread its stopped making sense after the 3rd page.

Depends on the NDA agreement. The sanctions can be very different in each specific case, it depends on the person who drafted the agreement.

And yeah, this thread is bound to stray a bit, it's getting a bit pointless.

I'll stop the OT though I guess =)

---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 09:43 AM ----------

PvP is so bad, its only dumping dmg in your enemies. There's no my enemy does X so I will do Y to counter it. Like I'm about to get shattered combo so I cloak of shadow... etc its very boring to me that there's no reactionary ability like in wow, definitely not buying it.

How would you even know what the PvP tactics are like unless you were/are in the latest beta builds? oO

Most of the footage I've seen of PvP on the internet is either low level or done by bad players. I think you're a tad biased here.

If I tried drawing conclusions about WoW PvP based on random videos of inexperienced players PvPing at level 40, I would also probably conclude that WoW's PvP is primitive and boring.

[DaGhostDS]

PvP is so bad, its only dumping dmg in your enemies. There's no my enemy does X so I will do Y to counter it. Like I'm about to get shattered combo so I cloak of shadow... etc its very boring to me that there's no reactionary ability like in wow, definitely not buying it.

Not every class have a counter to everything like a.. biased rogue!

WoW's PvP is primitive and boring.

/twisting words
You said it, I didnt! :3

[Dreavus]

It's the difference between a good MMO and an amazing MMO in my opinion. Smoothness of animation is absolutely critical to me.



WoW's melee animations are much much much closer though.

I think lightsabers are what cause the problem because they are wielded in such a way that they are just supposed to skim the enemy's body instead of deliver a huge hit. The lightsaber "hits" are 90% of what makes me cringe in these videos.

That said, it is still in beta, and I'll definitely try it once they have some sort of free trial system. But I'm not going to gamble $50-60 on what I see as a 50/50 chance that the animation team is great.

It's an illusion, for the most part, The animation times in between each hit is given the illusion of being closer, due in part to auto-attack, especially in melee. SW:TOR won't be as "fluid" as WoW because auto-attack won't be there to randomize swings in every gap of your rotation. In terms of being closer to the body its striking, it's only because they are designed to strike at the air, in a repetitive motion rather than to focus animations on an enemy target, and sync those animations for a cinematic approach.

As for lightsabers just skimming the enemies bodies and not delivering huge hits, you obviously haven't seen many of the lightsaber videos for this game, have you? O.o It can make you cringe all you want, but I still think half of you are complaining over something completely trivial. The fact that you would choose not to experience the game simply because you believe the animations aren't correct to you tells me that this game isn't for you, personally. Move along.

So in conclusion: Most of these people's definition of "clunky" and their reasons for choosing not to play this game on release are quite trivial, especially in this thread. However, to each their own.

[Deleted]

PvP is so bad, its only dumping dmg in your enemies. There's no my enemy does X so I will do Y to counter it. Like I'm about to get shattered combo so I cloak of shadow... etc its very boring to me that there's no reactionary ability like in wow, definitely not buying it.

Unless you actually go look on nda breaking sites then you don't realise the amount of different cc each class has. There are stuns/slows/knockbacks/interupts/trinkets just the videos that are on show arnt at max level or very good players either.

Theres a site i cant mention with a talent calculator although i dont think its up to date as of last weeks new beta build, you can take some info from it on how the classes are set up to be played though.

[jearle]

PvP is so bad, its only dumping dmg in your enemies. There's no my enemy does X so I will do Y to counter it. Like I'm about to get shattered combo so I cloak of shadow... etc its very boring to me that there's no reactionary ability like in wow, definitely not buying it.

Yes there are, you either don't know due to assuming and not having played or are a baddie and can't figure out which cooldowns are useful in PvP.

Just because a game doesn't have an exact Cloak of Shadows (which is fucking ridiculous anyway) doesn't mean that it doesn't have reactionary PvP.

Not all games need silly mechanics such as CoS, Divine Shield, Ice Block ect that in the end cause balance issues and do more harm then good.

[netwar_]

In-game trailers are prolly the worst videos I've seen from TOR. Bioware just don't know how to make them appealing... the only good in-game trailer I've seen is the smuggler armor progression. But if you look footages from the video games events, it's completly different. The game is much more smoother and fluid than those bad in-game trailers. And in each new beta build, they still polish those animations.

[Loaf Lord]

I don't really understand how people can judge the pvp of this game when we've really only seen low level pvp, and the leaked end game pvp thats been released is still played by awful players.

[netwar_]

I don't really understand how people can judge the pvp of this game when we've really only seen low level pvp, and the leaked end game pvp thats been released is still played by awful players.

It's because most of people who are complaining didn't even notice that it's lvl 14 pvp, and that it doesn't represent what pvp will looks like at 50.

[zealous]

It's because most of people who are complaining didn't even notice that it's lvl 14 pvp, and that it doesn't represent what pvp will looks like at 50.

I liked even level 14 PvP. There's not much CC except cryo grenades and the cyclone-thing that SIs have, but it's still loads of fun.

Better than level 30-40 PvP from WoW imo.

[valden83]

Agree with the previous posters. The comments about pvp are silly and obviously by people who are reading/watching out of date info, or are just blah. I feel pvp is every bit as competitive as WoW, and honestly it feels a lot more fun! Wish there was a way we could just delete all old info or put disclaimers up saying its outdated. saw a link to a gameplay trailer on youtube that is still getting thousands of hits and it is from last year >.<. The game is REALLY miles ahead of that now.

[Deleted]

It is easy to be negative about animations, you would expect at least from the force users to use the fluid animations you see in the movies, cartoons, trailers to some extent. They are always in motion while in combat, but when you see a jedi/sith staring at the other player lightsaber in hand waiting for GCD or auto attack really kills the immersion.

To be fair, this has pretty much been the bane of every single Star Wars RPG ever. Characters in movies do a bunch of things which characters in video games (who are trying to optimize performance) never would.

Sure I *could* try to backflip out the way and force-pull a pillar onto my opponent, but why would I if lightsaber attacks do more damage?

[zealous]

force-pull a pillar onto my opponent, but why would I if lightsaber attacks do more damage?

Unless you're a Consular in SWTOR =)

[Simca]

Unless you're a Consular in SWTOR =)

I think his point is that almost all of the Jedi in the movies employ many different techniques and abilities and that movies don't translate perfectly into gameplay.

It's a valid point for the casual customer. "I WANNA DO THIS EXACTLY LIKE THE MOVIE", etc. I agree that those type of expectations are just stupid and unreasonable though. It's a fun universe, but you aren't going to ever exactly recreate a movie in a game (nor are they trying to).

Anyway...

So in conclusion: Most of these people's definition of "clunky" and their reasons for choosing not to play this game on release are quite trivial, especially in this thread. However, to each their own.

I know it sounds trivial, and maybe it is. I never brought it up before in regards to the other MMOs I stopped playing.

However, when I saw this topic, I realized that other people out there felt the same way... that when they played other MMOs, things just didn't feel "right". I feel exactly the same. It is hard to describe (and I'm not the most talented person when it comes to descriptions already).