Health care law ruled constitutional

[YoungRider]

Washington (CNN) -- The sweeping health care reform law championed by President Barack Obama was upheld as constitutional by another federal appeals court Tuesday.

The decision is not part of a half-dozen other appeals pending at the Supreme Court. The justices could decide this week whether to take on one or more of those legal challenges to the law. Those suits were brought by more than a two dozen states and a coalition of private groups and individuals.

Tuesday's 2-1 decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia is a victory for the administration and its congressional supporters, but only adds to the divide among a range of federal courts over whether the law should be tossed out or severely trimmed in its scope. Three appeals court have upheld the law, while one has ruled it unconstitutional.

The majority in this latest case concluded while the assertion of federal authority in the law is large, so too is the issue Congress and the president sought to tackle.

"The right to be free from federal regulation is not absolute, and yields to the imperative that Congress be free to forge national solutions to national problems, no matter how local -- or seemingly passive -- their individual origins," wrote Judge Laurence Silberman.

It is unclear whether the high court will include this latest ruling with the other pending health care cases already on its docket. The justices have scheduled a closed-door conference Thursday to consider whether to accept one or more appeals. If they do, oral arguments would likely be held in March, with a ruling by June.

One of the other challenges involves a 26-state coalition opposing the law. A federal appeals court in Atlanta, considering that suit, had earlier found a key provision of the law to be unconstitutional.

The key issue is whether the "individual mandate" section -- requiring nearly all Americans to buy health insurance by 2014 or face financial penalties -- is an improper exercise of federal authority. The states also say that if that linchpin provision is unconstitutional, the entire law with its 450 or so sections must then be scrapped.

Virginia and Oklahoma have filed separate challenges, along with other groups and individuals opposed to the law.

The justices now have the discretion to either frame the case around the "severability" question -- whether the individual mandate section can be separated from the rest of the law -- or expand it to include other legal questions raised in the appeals.

Two other appeals have split on the individual mandate's constitutionality, a "circuit split" that all but assures the Supreme Court will decide the matter ultimately.

The states say individuals cannot be forced to buy insurance, a "product" they may neither want nor need.

The Justice Department has countered the states' argument by saying that since every American will need medical care at some point in their lives, individuals do not "choose" to participate in the health care market. Federal officials cite 2008 figures of $43 billion in uncompensated costs from the millions of uninsured people who receive health services, costs that are shifted to insurance companies and passed on to consumers.

Health care reform, a top Democratic priority since the Truman administration, was passed by the previous Congress in a series of virtually party-line votes. Obama signed the act into law in March 2010. The law is widely considered to be the signature legislative accomplishment of the president's first two years in office.

Among other things, the measure was designed to help millions of uninsured and underinsured Americans receive adequate and affordable health care through a series of government-imposed mandates and subsidies. The federal government stated in court briefs that 45 million Americans last year were without health insurance, roughly 15% of the country's population.

Critics have equated the measure to socialized medicine, fearing that a bloated government bureaucracy would result in higher taxes and diminished health care services.

Opponents derisively labeled the measure "Obamacare." Republican leaders, who captured the House of Representatives in the midterm elections, have vowed to overturn or severely trim the law.

The case decided Tuesday is Seven-Sky v. Holder (11-5047).

[rigoremortis]

universal health care is a good idea, everyone should be taken care of shit hits the fan, but not everyone should be forced to pay for it via a govt mandate, lol thats ridiculous. the reason a lot of people in this country dont have healthcare is because its too expensive. my uncle (retired, no health issues) pays $1200 a month for him and his wife, and they rarely even go to the doctors, thats 12,000 a year, thats more than some people make in a year, lol. case in point, was over in Germany a few years back with a friend, his dumbass broke his arm/fractured it while drunk, lol.....he was in and out with reset bone and a cast for 75 bucks, lol. its not so much that our healthcare system is bad, its just corrupt like every other aspect of our govt/economy (hence the reason its all failing), because nobody really knows the actual costs of medical fee's, people just pay them outright and figure "well, i guess thats what it costs", when it really really doesnt. insurance companies and the healthcare industry have been allowed to run amuk for years, and now their answer is to force everyone to pay into this messed up system? rofl, what a joke we've become in the past decade.

[Pert]

I assume that this will proceed all the way up. A group in Ohio is attempting to get an amendment in place to their state constitution, should be interesting to see how that goes.

[icedwarrior]

The states say individuals cannot be forced to buy insurance, a "product" they may neither want nor need.

You mean like Car Insurance? Sorry, I fail to see how this is any different than that. I'm not sold on this health care idea, but I think that it's a good idea in principle. Just the forcing of it is what I have issue with.

[luckybeer]

1200 a month for health care?? In Canada, an individual in the average income bracket pays roughly 3,500 a year through taxes for universal health care (though its highly dependent on their yearly income).

Anytime I hear an American argue against a universal health care system the reasons are always outrageous and backwards. IE: "This is a free country. We are all about freedom. The freedom to choose and the freedom to die."

"Everyone should be held accountable for their own health and pay on their own accord. No one should have to take care of another person."

But spending a trillion dollars on the military industrial complex.... "Justified" Where do you think that money comes from?

[Pert]

You mean like Car Insurance? Sorry, I fail to see how this is any different than that. I'm not sold on this health care idea, but I think that it's a good idea in principle. Just the forcing of it is what I have issue with.

I keep seeing people make this comparison, and it just doesn't fit.

Auto insurance is not a mandatory condition for US citizenship, or even for obtaining a driver's license. If you opt not to drive, you have no need for auto insurance. The insurance is only mandatory for those who wish to enjoy the privileges that driving convey. Auto insurance isn't mandatory for US residents any more than a driver's license is. By way of contrast, "Obamacare" would force the purchasing of health insurance as a condition of, what? Living in the US? US citizenship?

Furthermore, auto and health insurance exist for different reasons. Auto insurance (at least the type required) exists to protect others from your actions. Health insurance on the other hand exists not to protect others, but to protect you.

Let me ask you as well, does your auto insurance pay for the day-to-day maintenance on your car? Do you bill your insurance company for your gas? How about when you get a tune-up for your car, or have the oil changed? Health insurance covers the mundane (dentist visits, check-ups, etc) as well as the catastrophic.

The situation may be muddy, but auto and health insurance are very clearly different.

1200 a month for health care?? In Canada, an individual in the average income bracket pays roughly 3,500 a year through taxes for universal health care (though its highly dependent on their yearly income).

Anytime I hear an American argue against a universal health care system the reasons are always outrageous and backwards. IE: "This is a free country. We are all about freedom. The freedom to choose and the freedom to die."

"Everyone should be held accountable for their own health and pay on their own accord. No one should have to take care of another person."

But spending a trillion dollars on the military industrial complex.... "Justified" Where do you think that money comes from?

What if I were to tell you that I do not support a universal health-care mandate nor our level of military involvement? Obviously degree of military is necessary for any nation, but I concede that we in the US have far surpassed what is needed.

[Gulvar]

1200 a month for health care?? In Canada, an individual in the average income bracket pays roughly 3,500 a year through taxes for universal health care (though its highly dependent on their yearly income).

Anytime I hear an American argue against a universal health care system the reasons are always outrageous and backwards. IE: "This is a free country. We are all about freedom. The freedom to choose and the freedom to die."

"Everyone should be held accountable for their own health and pay on their own accord. No one should have to take care of another person."

But spending a trillion dollars on the military industrial complex.... "Justified" Where do you think that money comes from?

The idea of someone they deem a lesser getting something they don't deserve enrages people. Fighting universal health care in the US is more about paranoid lunacy than logic.

[Judge Malthred]

universal health care is a good idea, everyone should be taken care of shit hits the fan, but not everyone should be forced to pay for it via a govt mandate, lol thats ridiculous. the reason a lot of people in this country dont have healthcare is because its too expensive. my uncle (retired, no health issues) pays $1200 a month for him and his wife, and they rarely even go to the doctors, thats 12,000 a year, thats more than some people make in a year, lol. case in point, was over in Germany a few years back with a friend, his dumbass broke his arm/fractured it while drunk, lol.....he was in and out with reset bone and a cast for 75 bucks, lol. its not so much that our healthcare system is bad, its just corrupt like every other aspect of our govt/economy (hence the reason its all failing), because nobody really knows the actual costs of medical fee's, people just pay them outright and figure "well, i guess thats what it costs", when it really really doesnt. insurance companies and the healthcare industry have been allowed to run amuk for years, and now their answer is to force everyone to pay into this messed up system? rofl, what a joke we've become in the past decade.

God damn right they have. One of my closest friends used to work in a drug packaging facility. They got the huge barrels of pills/liquids and sorted them into the smaller bottles you buy. His job was to set the price and he would often tell me stories of not only how cheap these drugs are (he worked on narcotics level stuff) but that after he set a price, doctors would call him and bitch him out for setting it to low on a daily basis.

[Zanjol]

I just voted in favor of that amendment today in Ohio! As for the federal issue I do not believe anyone should be forced to buy anything and not everyone at some point will seek medical attention. Granted it will be a very small amount but some people are content with living and dying without ever getting any form of health care. As to the ridiculous cost, I wouldn't put it all back on the care providers but the business end of health care. Companies that make the supplies, pharmaceuticals, and insurance are in the business of money not care. If they can expand that profit margin they will do it without hesitation. When that is coupled by a situation that effects your entire life (ie:disease) they exploit it because they have you by the balls. Understand that workers need to be compensated, supplies do need to be available, and medication will cost something but you'd have to figure out how to eliminate a huge dose of greed to make those cost more reasonable.

[Azidonis]

I can't wait until the next President repeals this crap before it even gets started.

[Wells]

I can't wait until the next President repeals this crap before it even gets started.

Presidents can't repeal laws.

[Pert]

The idea of someone they deem a lesser getting something they don't deserve enrages people. Fighting universal health care in the US is more about paranoid lunacy than logic.

That's completely side-stepping the issue. People don't like the idea of government forcing them to buy a product. I already need to pay taxes that pay for other people's health-care. That is essentially the government taking my money by force, for the sole purpose of distributing it to others that are judged to need it more than I do.

The initiative currently being debated goes a step further, and would require individuals to purchase a product.

[Purlina]

Drugs themselves are cheap to produce, it's the R&D that is expensive / risky....

Including testing and obtaining FDA approval.

[Wells]

Drugs themselves are cheap to produce, it's the R&D that is expensive / risky....

Most of the R&D is backed or funded by the government. There is little risk to the corporation

---------- Post added 2011-11-08 at 07:44 PM ----------

That's completely side-stepping the issue. People don't like the idea of government forcing them to buy a product. I already need to pay taxes that pay for other people's health-care. That is essentially the government taking my money by force, for the sole purpose of distributing it to others that are judged to need it more than I do.

The initiative currently being debated goes a step further, and would require individuals to purchase a product.

On the other hand, unless you're willing to let people die due to a lack of health care you don't have any other choice. People without insurance pass costs on to everyone else. Forcing people to buy insurance is forcing people to carry their own weight to the best of their ability.

[Pert]

Most of the R&D is backed or funded by the government. There is little risk to the corporation

Do you mean its backed or funded by us, then? By most I assume you mean more than 50%, correct? If that's true I'm less than pleased, do you have any links, Wells?

[Gulvar]

I just voted in favor of that amendment today in Ohio! As for the federal issue I do not believe anyone should be forced to buy anything and not everyone at some point will seek medical attention. Granted it will be a very small amount but some people are content with living and dying without ever getting any form of health care. As to the ridiculous cost, I wouldn't put it all back on the care providers but the business end of health care. Companies that make the supplies, pharmaceuticals, and insurance are in the business of money not care. If they can expand that profit margin they will do it without hesitation. When that is coupled by a situation that effects your entire life (ie:disease) they exploit it because they have you by the balls. Understand that workers need to be compensated, supplies do need to be available, and medication will cost something but you'd have to figure out how to eliminate a huge dose of greed to make those cost more reasonable.

Cutting off the multiple layers of middle men is a much needed start. I could tell you things that you would find hard to believe like how a $200 mattress costs tax payers $9,800 after the third layer middle man jumps through the Medicare loopholes. Medical supplies come out of China at $0.03 per unit and people have to pay $3.75 per unit after one of those companies you see on TV proccesses the order for another company that proccesses the order from a distrubuter that bought it from the factory.

I am the final word on medical grants for a foundation and I actually figure out what things cost. You would not believe the nonsene suppliers send me.

[roahn the warlock]

The right to be free from federal regulation is not absolute.... wow

[Gmollster11]

universal health care is a good idea, everyone should be taken care of shit hits the fan, but not everyone should be forced to pay for it via a govt mandate, lol thats ridiculous. the reason a lot of people in this country dont have healthcare is because its too expensive. my uncle (retired, no health issues) pays $1200 a month for him and his wife, and they rarely even go to the doctors, thats 12,000 a year, thats more than some people make in a year, lol. case in point, was over in Germany a few years back with a friend, his dumbass broke his arm/fractured it while drunk, lol.....he was in and out with reset bone and a cast for 75 bucks, lol. its not so much that our healthcare system is bad, its just corrupt like every other aspect of our govt/economy (hence the reason its all failing), because nobody really knows the actual costs of medical fee's, people just pay them outright and figure "well, i guess thats what it costs", when it really really doesnt. insurance companies and the healthcare industry have been allowed to run amuk for years, and now their answer is to force everyone to pay into this messed up system? rofl, what a joke we've become in the past decade.

I would rather live in America than Germany. Anytime someone compares us to another country, and suggests the other country is better should get a free one-way ticket to live there. And no coming back.

[TobyKenobi]

I keep seeing people make this comparison, and it just doesn't fit.

Auto insurance is not a mandatory condition for US citizenship, or even for obtaining a driver's license. If you opt not to drive, you have no need for auto insurance. The insurance is only mandatory for those who wish to enjoy the privileges that driving convey. Auto insurance isn't mandatory for US residents any more than a driver's license is. By way of contrast, "Obamacare" would force the purchasing of health insurance as a condition of, what? Living in the US? US citizenship?

Furthermore, auto and health insurance exist for different reasons. Auto insurance (at least the type required) exists to protect others from your actions. Health insurance on the other hand exists not to protect others, but to protect you.

Let me ask you as well, does your auto insurance pay for the day-to-day maintenance on your car? Do you bill your insurance company for your gas? How about when you get a tune-up for your car, or have the oil changed? Health insurance covers the mundane (dentist visits, check-ups, etc) as well as the catastrophic.

The situation may be muddy, but auto and health insurance are very clearly different.



What if I were to tell you that I do not support a universal health-care mandate nor our level of military involvement? Obviously degree of military is necessary for any nation, but I concede that we in the US have far surpassed what is needed.

Just to add to this... look up Surety Bonds. Many states have these as an alternative option to auto insurance, its just most car owners don't want to set aside that kind of money. Also remember that auto-insurance is required by state law not by federal law.

[Gmollster11]

O, for anyone complaining about healthcare insurance: keep in mind that a doctor isn't born with the notion that they should save your dumbars, or fix your borken bones, or anything. It costs money to get seen by a doctor. And "health insurance" is simply a financial tool used to reduce the financial risk to the patient.

Why should Bill Gates be required to buy insurance anymore than a healthy 25 year old? Insurance is an OPTION.

Liberals will be saying life insurance should be free soon too.