why Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

[Olo]

Napalm sticks to puppies and small children!

Did they have Napalm in WW2? I thought it was 'invented' in the '60s?

"Use of fire in warfare has a long history; similar to napalm is the earlier Greek fire, which was also described as "sticky fire" (πῦρ κολλητικόν) and is believed to have had a petroleum base...
A team of chemists led by Louis Fieser at Harvard University was the first one to develop synthetic napalm, during 1942 for the U.S. Armed Forces...
This new mixture of chemicals was widely used in the Second World War in flame throwers and fire bombs. Napalm bombs burned out 40% of the area of Japanese target cities in the World War."

[Wells]

Napalm sticks to puppies and small children!

Did they have Napalm in WW2? I thought it was 'invented' in the '60s?

Napalm as we know it gained prevalence during Vietnam and has since been outlawed in most militaries for weaponized use.

Incendiaries during WW2 used a variety of materials to cause fires. Sodium reactions were a common choice during the Blitz.

[obdigore]

"Use of fire in warfare has a long history; similar to napalm is the earlier Greek fire, which was also described as "sticky fire" (πῦρ κολλητικόν) and is believed to have had a petroleum base...
A team of chemists led by Louis Fieser at Harvard University was the first one to develop synthetic napalm, during 1942 for the U.S. Armed Forces...
This new mixture of chemicals was widely used in the Second World War in flame throwers and fire bombs. Napalm bombs burned out 40% of the area of Japanese target cities in the World War."

Awesome, thanks for the info.

[Kouki]

this is a purely historical discussion and no US bashing thread.

the question is why did US bomb these two cities and not somewhere else? the Japanese still had about 2 million infantry on the mainland so instead of nuking 2 cities why didn't the US nuke army bases or important military ports?

Hiroshima was an accident, the bombs were crude and altitude activated, when the bomber reached the right height for a sky burst the bomb became active and the plane had a short time to drop it and ditch.

There was a third bomb but the plane got lost over the rocky mountains in Northern Alberta, one crewman stayed on while the rest of the cowards left the plane, he stayed and tried to disarm it, he died but prevented a canadian american war.

[Mikael123]

Soldiers fighting soldiers is not the same as civillians getting vaporised in a mushroom cloud with no warning or true purpose.

The Americans did warn the japanese before dropping the bomb, the japanese just didn't know the true effect of atomic bombs.
The purpose was to end the war and save many american lives. If the Americans would have had to invade the japanese mainland it would have cost thousands of lives perhaps hundred thousands, both for the japanese and for the americans.
And if you look at how the japanese treated the people in the countries they conquered (look at China for example) or how they treated prisoners of war, the japanese wasn't exactly a popular nation.

[Muffinator]

Hiroshima was an accident, the bombs were crude and altitude activated, when the bomber reached the right height for a sky burst the bomb became active and the plane had a short time to drop it and ditch.

There was a third bomb but the plane got lost over the rocky mountains in Northern Alberta, one crewman stayed on while the rest of the cowards left the plane, he stayed and tried to disarm it, he died but prevented a canadian american war.

I've never heard of this before, if that's true I find it quite odd no missions to secure the plane or cargo made news or even documentary.

Good stuff though, now I have some research material for the holidays. Cheers!

[Wells]

I've never heard of this before, if that's true I find it quite odd no missions to secure the plane or cargo made news or even documentary.

Good stuff though, now I have some research material for the holidays. Cheers!

Yeah I'm not sure much of that is true.

[Bolson13]

Anybody who has any moral objections to the 2 bombs being dropped, please note that in WW2 the Japanese managed to kill 30 million people themselves as well. A large number of them through means that would even shock al qaida (cannibalism to name one).

Not saying it wasn't horrible but of all the horrible things that happened during WW2 it is at least justifiable somewhat. Especially seeing how crazy devoted the Japanese were at that time. Something major had to happen.

[Defengar]

Hiroshima was an accident, the bombs were crude and altitude activated, when the bomber reached the right height for a sky burst the bomb became active and the plane had a short time to drop it and ditch.

There was a third bomb but the plane got lost over the rocky mountains in Northern Alberta, one crewman stayed on while the rest of the cowards left the plane, he stayed and tried to disarm it, he died but prevented a canadian american war.

Chuck norris then started the war anyways because he wanted to keep fighting after winning WW2, but since it was Chuck, the war ended so fast no one knew one had happened, and since chuck is a demigod, he demanded no concessions.

See my post? Take a good look at it.
IT IS 500 BILLION TIMES MORE FACTUAL THAN YOURS.

---------- Post added 2011-11-28 at 05:34 AM ----------

Napalm as we know it gained prevalence during Vietnam and has since been outlawed in most militaries for weaponized use.

Incendiaries during WW2 used a variety of materials to cause fires. Sodium reactions were a common choice during the Blitz.

The US agreed to sign the UN resolution to ban cluster bomb use because of their high civilian casualty rate, but then refused to sign a resolution banning Napalm for the same reason. YOU CAN HAVE OUR BIGASS EXPLOSIONS, BUT NOT OUR LIQUID FUCKING FIRE!
Were kinda weird like that...

[Deleted]

Military bases.

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki had military bases/weapons production there. Also were well known enough to make a point and demonstrate the power

[The Ogdru Jahad]

Because they were industrial cities and bombing them would cripple the japanese.

[The Ogdru Jahad]

Also...

We had an operation plan that had estimated casualties on ALL SIDES upwards of 3 million. The bombs had about 300k casualties...as sick as it sounds...we saved lives dropping the bombs. The operation planned involved an amphibious assault where the allied powers would send in ground troops...a shit ton of them...allied and japanese lives would be lost in the millions. I'd say the bombs were a good idea...

[Deleted]

The mere fact that they used the bomb in Hiroshima, and then they repeated the act to Nagasaki, makes all people involved in the decision of those actions war criminals, they should be arrested and executed in public together with the nazis that also had the same fate and quite rightfully.

It is not a bash against US.

There were also huge bombings during the WWII that flatened entire cities as well from both sides.

This though, was a fatal blow against civilians, with the knowledge that even the few survivors and their unborn children will suffer for the remaining of their lives.

The bastards that decided this should get executed, but as many other bastards they were considered war heroes.

May their disgraced remains rott in hell.

[The Ogdru Jahad]

Did you also add up the victims of radiation and cancer for decades after the explosions ?

Millions have not died because of the radiation, and millions never will from cancers etc. Operation Downfall had estimates of 3 MILLION casualties? Can you wrap your mind around that number? Neither can I. I'd say tops 750k people died/were affected by the bombs. A large number, but a necessary sacrifice that saved millions.

---------- Post added 2011-11-28 at 06:55 AM ----------

The mere fact that they used the bomb in Hiroshima, and then they repeated the act to Nagasaki, makes all people involved in the decision of those actions war criminals, they should be arrested and executed in public together with the nazis that also had the same fate and quite rightfully.

It is not a bash against US.

There were also huge bombings during the WWII that flatened entire cities as well from both sides.

This though, was a fatal blow against civilians, with the knowledge that even the few survivors and their unborn children will suffer for the remaining of their lives.

The bastards that decided this should get executed, but as many other bastards they were considered war heroes.

May their disgraced remains rott in hell.

I recommend you read up on "the rape of nanking" and the "bataan death march". While I love the Japanese today. Back then they were a horrific bloodthirsty people. THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK AGAINST THE JAPANESE. Just merely stating the fact that they committed some of the worst atrocities I've ever read about.

[achaeon]

Soldiers fighting soldiers is not the same as civillians getting vaporised in a mushroom cloud with no warning or true purpose.
Both were large cities with some military importance. Neither was irreplacable to the military. There were picked because the casualties would be devastating so they would stand a chance of scaring Japan into surrender.

USA are assholes for dropping the bomb. They had their reasoning and rationalle that allowed them to carry through with it. It was a gray decision where thousands of families were killed. Nobody in the states thought about that, the whole population cheered it as another military victory. Oh well, history is written by the victors.

Do you skip through tulips and sing to birds with double rainbows in the background on your way to work too? We live in a gray world, get over it. More civilians died through out the war through conventional means than died from those bombs. How many times did the enemy intentionally flatten cities with tanks/bombers through out the war? Many. Estimates are approximately 40-52 million civilians died for reasons related to the war. To give you perspective, not even that many soldiers died. Flattening a couple cities to end the madness, worth it in my mind.

[bigjenk]

I certainly think they should have hit hard military targets rather than cities at first. While no one claiming that war crimes were committed, the intentional targeting of civilian targets is not something i can endorse.

There also had to pressure on the people of japan and it had to hit home since they had instilled such a fatalistic attitude among the troops that had been seen in the pacific. I am not saying it was right from a objective 3rd party point of view, but it was the right decision for the us to make for itself at that point.

[Deleted]

This though, was a fatal blow against civilians, with the knowledge that even the few survivors and their unborn children will suffer for the remaining of their lives.

Although I agree it was a horrible act on itself, you should realize that the Japanese at that time would not surrender, at no compromise or circumstance.
Every single citizen was willing to die for the cause if USA was going to invade Japan.
Every Japanese citizen would have taken a gun to shoot back, citizen is keyword here.

[bigjenk]

the Bomb was like a test run we HAD NO CLUE what effects the nuke would bring on a civilian population, yes we knew about its properties but had no clue on the measurement of damage it would do and how bad.

The worst part about the bombings was the radiation and fallout to follow, not the actual explosions themselves which were enough to scare a surrender. The larger portion died from the after effects the following months to years later, WE DID NOT EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN. The bomb was way more powerful on human population centers than we imagined which is why we were so quick to make the decision of avoid any future use of them unless, as last resort mechanic, (or counter measure after USSR's acquisition of them).

We had already measured the amount of radiation and had pretty accurate calculations on how long it would hang around and the effects of it.

[Defengar]

Although I agree it was a horrible act on itself, you should realize that the Japanese at that time would not surrender, at no compromise or circumstance.
Every single citizen was willing to die for the cause if USA was going to invade Japan.
Every Japanese citizen would have taken a gun to shoot back, citizen is keyword here.

They were even training women and children how to make and use slingshots and bamboo spears during the final months of the war.

[Deleted]

They were even training women and children how to make and use slingshots and bamboo spears during the final months of the war.

Knowing this, try to turn it all around...what if USA didnt drop those bombs and invaded Japan.
I could think of a very likely scenario where the Japanse people ceased to excist, but before that we would have gone through a Vietnam-like war.

Yea, it was horrible, but in the greater picture, personally i think the Abombs were the best solution.