Legendary Daggers talks here please...

[Segasik]

Has anyone gotten any answer about wether 25man dropping sometimes only 1 gem cluster is an actual intentional change since live or a bug?
I made a ticket/ asked on the customer support forum but all I've gotten is a brush off. On the support forum literally like every post but mine has a blue answer.
I literally only need a 5 second answer of "yes this is an intended change to live" or "no this is a bug looking into it". I also have no problem with either answer, I don't mind if bosses only drop 1 sometimes it will make small difference in the long run anyway.

Happened to me aswell 1 CLuste drop from Spine, ticket, and answer was
"It's intended, it can happen"

[Deleted]

If you're not Sub spec and need a half decent vid of the Gilneas sneaking part then i found a vid here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8GDFfCav9s hope this helps.
Smash

[Deleted]

Happened to me aswell 1 Cluster drop from Spine, ticket, and answer was
"It's intended, it can happen"

Bad luck for me too. 7/8 on this current ID and 3 bosses dropped only one cluster for my gems (Morchok, Zon'ozz and Blackhorn)

[Verain]

Any word on droprates in heroic? We mostly run 10s these days, having split our 25s into two. We've only cleared one boss heroic thus far, and it dropped only one. Is there really no difference in heroic and normal?

[akteliae]

Any word on droprates in heroic? We mostly run 10s these days, having split our 25s into two. We've only cleared one boss heroic thus far, and it dropped only one. Is there really no difference in heroic and normal?

Heroic droprates are currently exactly the same as normal droprates.
Getting 3 per heroic kill so far kind of stings.

[Verain]

Isn't three the highest you can get as a drop in 25s?

I would expect that 10h would be something higher than 10, but not quite at 25n (similar to previous stuff), and I would expect that 25h would be higher than 25n by the same proportion.

It appears to be that the multiplier is 1x

[akteliae]

Isn't three the highest you can get as a drop in 25s?

Yes.

I would expect that 10h would be something higher than 10, but not quite at 25n (similar to previous stuff), and I would expect that 25h would be higher than 25n by the same proportion.

You'd expect that; but you'd be wrong. All data so far suggests normal and heroic gem drops are exactly the same between their respective raid sizes.

[Verain]

You mean difficulties, and yes, that appears to be the case.

That is highly unusual. It would be as if reg and heroic dropped the same gear- which, in this case, they do :/

[akteliae]

You mean difficulties, and yes, that appears to be the case.

That is highly unusual. It would be as if reg and heroic dropped the same gear- which, in this case, they do :/

No, I meant respective raid sizes.
10 normal's droprate is exactly the same as 10 heroics, 25 normal's droprate is exactly the same as 25 heroics.

Yeah, I'm not totally sure of the reasoning behind doing it this way, and I'm not particularly thrilled about it. I'm fine with 25 heroic getting more than 10 heroic, and 25 normal more than 10 normal, but to put it in a theoretical situation to illustrate how silly it currently is;

Guild A clears Dragon Soul, 8/8h 10, on the first day of the patch. (Not possible, obviously, but this is just an illustration)
Guild B clears the first half of Dragon Soul, 4/8 normal, and never kills anything past that point for the entire life of the tier.

Guild B and Guild A will complete legendaries at about the same pace, with guild B possibly completing first depending on luck. That's just a little bit absurd.

[Wow]

Since most are probably a week-week and a half from the next stage of daggers. Say you complete the quest mid raid Do you guys think you could still get clusters and would count for the next step even though you don't have the quest yet? Or if you know that set amount will complete it but you just don't open it so keep getting clusters for the whole raid do you think they would carry over past that quest?

[Deleted]

Feral druid + monk legendary next.

[Tekloth]

Since most are probably a week-week and a half from the next stage of daggers. Say you complete the quest mid raid Do you guys think you could still get clusters and would count for the next step even though you don't have the quest yet? Or if you know that set amount will complete it but you just don't open it so keep getting clusters for the whole raid do you think they would carry over past that quest?

I think it's been mentioned in this thread that the leftover clusters that you have remaining from the phase 2 quest of collecting gems will remain in your bags even if you complete the quest.

[Pathal]

I'm going to jump in here and make a request, since I still think there's more to the legendary quest chain.

Run this script in game, and then click on the link that appears. If a tooltip pops up, tell me what server you're on and any other info you think is relevant. If you're on a US/Oceanic realm, I can take it from there. If you're on an EU realm, I might have a couple follow up questions.

/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("\124cffffff00\124Hquest:30117:85\124h[Click Here]\124h\124r");

I have a hunch that there's still a missing quest segment between Sharpening Your Fangs, and Patricide, and that this is the quest ID for it. I think it's a single quest at the moment thats distinctly different from the first two solo sections, this is where I predict it to be. I want to repeat though, this is a hunch based on localized data that -is- in our game client. It may not lead to anything in the end.

[Deleted]

Go 25 man then. It's only normal it takes 2 x slower than in a 25man raid. Should be happy its not 2.5slower actually.

I really dont see why 10 man guilds should be slower to get the gems than 25mans , my guild doesnt run 25man raids and i'm not guna be joinning a differnt guild just to get the gems faster. I mean if the loot that drops is the same in 10's as 25's then why does blizz make legendary quest iteams drop less ? i know the staff stuff was the same. just seems blizz wants to make ppl raid 25mans. I think the reason why so many guilds have started to mostly raid 10man is theres a lot less ppl to have to organise and get to turn up on time for a start .

But yes i see your point 25man raids will drop the stuff faster and its just to bad if your in a 10 man raid.

[Deleted]

Rogues are a cooler and funner though?

[Anklebiters]

About 110 Boss kills on 10 Man and about 55 on 25 man IF your the only rogue in the group. Give or take a few boss kills but yeah.

^ lol what get 5-7 in 10 mans 55-60 boss kills in 10m , not sure how much 25 m drops so guessing 20-30 kills

[Sesshou]

I really dont see why 10 man guilds should be slower to get the gems than 25mans , my guild doesnt run 25man raids and i'm not guna be joinning a differnt guild just to get the gems faster. I mean if the loot that drops is the same in 10's as 25's then why does blizz make legendary quest iteams drop less ? i know the staff stuff was the same. just seems blizz wants to make ppl raid 25mans. I think the reason why so many guilds have started to mostly raid 10man is theres a lot less ppl to have to organise and get to turn up on time for a start .

But yes i see your point 25man raids will drop the stuff faster and its just to bad if your in a 10 man raid.

Um, why do they get less of normal items? Because theres less of them to gear out. A 25m has 2.5x more people to gear out quite likely including more than 1 rogue. Obviously they should get more legendary pieces.

Now heroic on both sizes needs to drop more... heroic raiding guilds should not be getting their legendary slower than normal mode raiding guilds because of rng.

And blizz is clearly promoting 10m, I don't know how you can't see that. 10m is generally easier (except the first tier) because they have made it easier so that you don't get screwed if you can't alter your raid comp (like being able to 3 heal hm bal, when most guilds could only take 4 (maybe 5) on 25m). You also get the same ilvl gear and gear at the same rate per person (minus rng).

[Deleted]

Um, why do they get less of normal items? Because theres less of them to gear out. A 25m has 2.5x more people to gear out quite likely including more than 1 rogue. Obviously they should get more legendary pieces.

Now heroic on both sizes needs to drop more... heroic raiding guilds should not be getting their legendary slower than normal mode raiding guilds because of rng.

And blizz is clearly promoting 10m, I don't know how you can't see that. 10m is generally easier (except the first tier) because they have made it easier so that you don't get screwed if you can't alter your raid comp (like being able to 3 heal hm bal, when most guilds could only take 4 (maybe 5) on 25m). You also get the same ilvl gear and gear at the same rate per person (minus rng).

I disagree with you on the promotion of 10-men.
25-mens get in comparison more loot than 10 men, tier wise, and until recently, got more valor points as well. In 25-men, a lot less gear is sharded in the starting period of a tier, simply because there are more people that can use an item, and chances are higher all classes are present too. It speeds up the gearing process at the start, until it evens out after a while.

And about the legendaries and that 25-men should get more:

I agree on the part that 25-men has to gear up more rogues in T13 to have a legendary (or caster in T12) but that is not the problem about these legendaries.
In 25-men, a legendary is created a lot faster, and that means the raid will benefit more from said legendary than a 10-men raid. Even getting the phase 2 daggers sooner benefits their progress more than 10 men.
The most fair solution would be to have an equal time of making a legendary in both settings, but allowing a 25-men raid to create more at the same time.

There is an easy solution for that: limit the number of gem clusters per person.
Drop 1 cluster in 10-men and 2 in 25 (or even make it 3, depending on the ratio of rogues between the 2 settings), just like it was before, but each rogue can only get 1 cluster per boss. This would make the point at which both settings benefit from the legendary, the same.
Simple solution, but that was apparently too much of coding for Blizzard.
Right now I am looking against somewhere between 15-20 weeks before I can get the legendary, and I hope I get at least a few weeks playing with it, before MoP comes out, and the item gets worthless DPS-wise.

And inb4 “ then go play 25-men if you want it faster”: this only strengthens my point of 25-men being more promoted…

[ManthonyChopkins]

I disagree with you on the promotion of 10-men.
25-mens get in comparison more loot than 10 men, tier wise, and until recently, got more valor points as well. In 25-men, a lot less gear is sharded in the starting period of a tier, simply because there are more people that can use an item, and chances are higher all classes are present too. It speeds up the gearing process at the start, until it evens out after a while.

And about the legendaries and that 25-men should get more:

I agree on the part that 25-men has to gear up more rogues in T13 to have a legendary (or caster in T12) but that is not the problem about these legendaries.
In 25-men, a legendary is created a lot faster, and that means the raid will benefit more from said legendary than a 10-men raid. Even getting the phase 2 daggers sooner benefits their progress more than 10 men.
The most fair solution would be to have an equal time of making a legendary in both settings, but allowing a 25-men raid to create more at the same time.

There is an easy solution for that: limit the number of gem clusters per person.
Drop 1 cluster in 10-men and 2 in 25 (or even make it 3, depending on the ratio of rogues between the 2 settings), just like it was before, but each rogue can only get 1 cluster per boss. This would make the point at which both settings benefit from the legendary, the same.
Simple solution, but that was apparently too much of coding for Blizzard.
Right now I am looking against somewhere between 15-20 weeks before I can get the legendary, and I hope I get at least a few weeks playing with it, before MoP comes out, and the item gets worthless DPS-wise.

And inb4 “ then go play 25-men if you want it faster”: this only strengthens my point of 25-men being more promoted…

I don't get why all the 10 man rogues are complaining, the content is easier, period. All the top end guilds say as such. As far as the drop rates go? tough beans amigos. These loot arguments are absurd. As a rogue in a 10 man how many people do you have on your respective token? Four maybe? And that's max... As a rogue in a 25 man... there's 13 people on the Vanq token personally in my guild... 13 people, at TWO tokens per boss. Not three... TWO... It's clear that because you raid 10 mans you aren't running 25s at all, so you actually have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Drops were changed up this patch so all of your "I used to do blah blah blah" arguments are also invalid. The real reason 25s get it faster, and deservedly so, is because it's highly likely that progression based 25 man guilds have 2 to 3 rogues on the roster, that should deserve a shot at legendary daggers, more for the guild than themselves. What's the point of giving it to 2 rogues at the same time? None, then no one benefits from it for a long time... You 10 man rogues,probably the only rogue, unless your guild is retarded, have no one in line behind you... So what's the rush? No one else needs it, content is easier, and gear really isn't an issue. Nuff said. You'll get your legendary and you'll think it's awesome. So sit back, relax, and shut the hell up.

EDIT: Also just look at wowprogress stats, 25 man guilds are dying off with each passing patch, why is that? Because you reap the exact same rewards on 10 man, and it's a hell of a lot easier.

[ymirsson]

And in other 25m raids, there are 6 vanquisher. Where's your argument? You sound like a bitter old men, longing for ye olde days of 40 man raids, because "that was tru hardcore rading". You might need to learn to relax, take it easy, and acknowledge that 25 and 10 man are different. Not better/worse, but different.