Holy Trinity: Arena Net gets it

[Borzo]

As much as I love the fact that there are basically no group requirements like the traditional trinity, part of me is sad. I almost always play a tank/healer so I would always get groups almost instantly or have people message me to see if I wanted to do a dungeon.

1) You'll still get groups instantly
2) But now OTHERS will get groups instantly too

It's win-win, no? No one is losing out on anything! If you're a good player, people will still wanna play with you!

[Deleted]

Even though I can already hear the complaints "but...I don't want to play water elementalist...I want to do DAMAGE!"

But it's more versatile, very true. Plus no tanks or healers with their head up their ass thinking they are so special. ^^

[Durzlla]

The "whack-a-mole" healing tag comes from addons like Healbot, Vuhdo and Gridclique. Where healer's essentially only needed to pay attention to the interface / their feet. Very few other games have that though.

Typically a case of Warcraft experience being the only or primary MMO for many. So they define all MMOs by those mechanics and all similar mechanics by that singular game. At least in a general sense.

Eh it's not just from the add ons, i didn't use any add ons and thought it was very "Whack-a-mole"ly.. However, i have to agree it was pretty much only warcraft, i healed a little in Warhammer and Rift and didn't think either was nearly as bad as WoW's. It was still there, but it wasn't nearly as apparent for the most part!

---------- Post added 2011-12-19 at 07:51 PM ----------

Even though I can already hear the complaints "but...I don't want to play water elementalist...I want to do DAMAGE!"

But it's more versatile, very true. Plus no tanks or healers with their head up their ass thinking they are so special. ^^

LOL! one of my friends already told me this yesterday!! He was QQing how he was going to half to be a water spec elem since i was going to be a mesmer... Oh poor guy, i haven't enlightened him on the fact that 1) there are no healers, and 2) there aren't really specs xD

[Blood Crusade]

As much as I love the fact that there are basically no group requirements like the traditional trinity, part of me is sad. I almost always play a tank/healer so I would always get groups almost instantly or have people message me to see if I wanted to do a dungeon.

I actually main(ed) a tank in WoW and I still believe that it's a good thing. I could be totally off base, but, I think "end game" PvP and PvE will feel a lot more like playing a game of League of legends. Yeah, certain classes might be more apt to doing loads of burst damage or supporting the groups, but there aren't set roles and you can play the same class (or champion in LoL) however you want to a certain degree.

[Acquiesce of Telara]

I remember watching an episode of Gamebreaker.tv and both JasmineIRL and Pokket were complaining about the lack of a straight healing class in GW2. They pestered a dev about it, who tried to be positive and affirming by suggesting they roll a Guardian.

I just kinda shook my head and wept for humanity. You can be a full-on healer in like <insert random percentage here> of MMOs/RPGs. This one game lacks the trinity, is there anything really wrong with that? (Directed at Gamebreaker)

[Mif]

I remember watching an episode of Gamebreaker.tv and both JasmineIRL and Pokket were complaining about the lack of a straight healing class in GW2.

Pokket is just a Rift fangirl that stoops to the level of a forum troll.

[Fencers]

Hey now, that's not entirely fair. Pokket she moved to SW:TOR recently. She was streaming some. :s

[semantic]

Lots of people oppose the "removal" of the holy trinity. Based on personal experience, they mainly all claim to be healers in games like WOW. They say GW2 has no place for them since it has no healers. And they're calling in their MMO-life is to be a healer and nothing else.

I'm surprised you haven't encountered these people yet, but you will soon!

I don't understand how some people can reduce their enjoyment of video-games down to such a specific and niche role... but apparently it happens.

The way I figure it, WoW is really 3 concurrent mini-games played out in a single 3D space. You've got the tank minigame, the healer minigame, and the dps minigame. People who like playing healer happen to like playing the healer minigame (like Bejeweled instead of Tetris or something). They anticipate incoming damage and make it go away. It's sort of fun. But then they also like the feeling of helping the team. If they are worried about not having fun in GW2, they just don't understand that they will still be able to help allies in trouble. They just get to do it in more interesting ways now.

edit: but for a while, they'll be frustrated by the fact that they can't just toss a heal to that stupid Thief standing in the AOE.

[Sand Person]

i can't wait to get my hands on this game! i know what profession im gonna play.

[SPeedy26]

I can make sweeping generalizations too, like people only want to dps so they can have no responsibility and just cruise control while watching tv. And I would be just as wrong as you while I do it. People like what they like, and if you make a game that ignores 2/5ths of your target audience and say things like 'well, you can still support people' you better make the 3/5ths you are catering for extremely happy or you will end with problems.

(my point starts in paragraph 3 :P)
I'm glad you didn't make that sweeping generalizations of us lazy dpsers :P. I played dps for most of wow until my guild needed a tank and puppy dog-eyed me into doing it. I had so much fun tanking for them (minus needing to use a shield), and decided to pug a tank the next day.... I never tanked unless I had a full party of friends in my group.

When my teacher started IT club (just to play wow) me and some RL friends (who never played wow before) leveled some char's to run RFC and I played the healer... first wipe was my fault, I was fiddling with addons , second wipe a dps argoed the whole dungeon claimed It was my fault, 3rd wipe a mob glitched threw the wall chanced a dps who wanted to run to the entrance of the dungeon instead of to the tank. 20 wipes later they claimed every one of them was because of me while only 9 were... OK maybe 11. then I understood why so many dps was because IMO they had not much responsibility at all

my point is Guild wars 2 aren't ignoring the healers and tanks in fact the choice to make everyone responsible for healing was to help ease the burden of being to "backbone" of the group and making all players responsible for themselves. players who stand their and dps will day, people who adept and adjust their tactics to the situation of the fight will succeed. you just won't be yelled at by the group because that one guy doesn't know how to move out of the red hot stuff on the floor. :P

Really all guild wars 2 is doing is removing the ability for a dps to go on cruse control and taking some of the stress off healers and tanks. "Supporting" from what I seen is the same as healing only instead of recovering dmg you stop it from happening (like shields, area denying walls, very powerful buffs ect.) and heals are used more as your oh shit buttons.

If you like playing a healer because you get to help your allies then Guild wars 2 will be for you. If you like healing because you are the guy responsible for the group to succeed (along with the tank) it might not be for you.

[Bloodlight]

but for a while, they'll be frustrated by the fact that they can't just toss a heal to that stupid Thief standing in the AOE.

And hopefully they will eventually come to realize that they can still help their allies, e.g. drop a Geyser but that that isn't their only focus now.

I don't understand why people would want to experience just that one part of the game. With ArenaNet implementing the 'awesome' trinity of Damage, Control and Support instead of the 'holy' trinity, people will experience more than just the whack-a-mole game play that others have described healing as. They will get to look up from their health frame and look at terrain and decide how the can best Support their allies. Sounds a bit more engaging imo.

[Borzo]

I like this video.

[semantic]

... instead of the 'holy' trinity, people will experience more than just the whack-a-mole game play that others have described healing as. ....

Some people like Sudoku, others like the crossword. Try telling those people you are removing one or the other from the Sunday paper (for something more engaging) and see what happens.

[Fencers]

That video is kinda bad. There is no team work in the trinity system but the team relies on all 3 roles? LOL, gamers are foolish.

[Borzo]

That video is kinda bad. There is no team work in the trinity system but the team relies on all 3 roles? LOL, gamers are foolish.

You're probably misunderstanding what he is saying. The CEO, the accountant, and the programmer are all working for the same company, with the same goals, and they may all 3 be very important... but they're not working together. They're in different offices, don't understand each other's roles, and don't even speak to each other.

[Fencers]

You're probably misunderstanding what he is saying. The CEO, the accountant, and the programmer are all working for the same company, with the same goals, and they may all 3 be very important... but they're not working together. They're in different offices, don't understand each other's roles, and don't even speak to each other.

I know what he is saying but it is a foolish opinion. In my opinion, ahem. XD

As a tank I am keenly aware of DPS and heals and support- my primary function is to enhance their role. Likewise, as a DPS I am enabling the healer to do his job. Et cetera. The system itself is symbiotic.

[Epiphanes]

Wowza, lots of unneeded profanity in the OP.

I am not opposed to it's removal. Other MMOs didn't have a holy trinity either and did just fine.

The existence of a holy trinity is merely a design choice. Not inherently better or worse than any other.

He used vulgarity 4* (edit) times. "Lots"? No. Most definitely not. If you feel that your feelings were hurt by two words (both* used twice), by all means: Carebear Hello Kitty Island Adventure can be found here.

As far as the topic itself goes, I haven't honestly paid much attention at all to GW since back in 2005 when it first came out. Watched a friend play it and didn't really like the lack of involvement it had outside of instances. Open world was nice, but you couldn't interact with anyone else unless you were in a group (visually see them, etc). Haven't followed the development of GW2, but hopefully they fixed all that. In terms of the "holy trinity" being removed, giving every class the ability to effectively heal, take damage, and produce lucrative amounts of damage is going to inherit a LOT of balance drawbacks where pvp is concerned.

Be respectful of other posters or don't post at all. -Edge

[semantic]

You're probably misunderstanding what he is saying. The CEO, the accountant, and the programmer are all working for the same company, with the same goals, and they may all 3 be very important... but they're not working together. They're in different offices, don't understand each other's roles, and don't even speak to each other.

Unless you work at Arenanet, where all three of those people are also highly trained ninjas.

[Questar]

i m glad of the absence of the trinity. so many unnecessary problems crop up becos of it.

[Speedy92286]

The "whack-a-mole" healing tag comes from addons like Healbot, Vuhdo and Gridclique. Where healer's essentially only needed to pay attention to the interface / their feet. Very few other games have that though.

Typically a case of Warcraft experience being the only or primary MMO for many. So they define all MMOs by those mechanics and all similar mechanics by that singular game. At least in a general sense.

Which is why I stopped using them once 4.0 hit. I realized healing is far more fun without a healing add on. Just my personal preference.

I am glad GW2 doesn't have the holy trinity, and I say this as a person who loves being the healer. I like dpsing and tanking is okay, but healing and supporting my team is where I get the most enjoyment from. In GW2 I can support the group and contribute in other ways, which is amazing. It also means that when I decide to NOT play on my healer, I don't have to worry about some "baddie" keeping the group up while I play on my elemental shaman. Without the holy trinity, I can support my team while killing things, or kill things while supporting.

I am hoping more games follow GW2's suite, but I doubt it.