How do you deal with feral cats and dks? Blood in particular.

[Gringgotts]

Title says it all; how should I deal with these classes in PvP? Most other classes seem to be pretty easy to beat provided I can get an opener on them... I just can't seem to beat these classes even in ideal circumstances.

Ferals I usually will open with a premed->recup->cheap->hemo->backstab->backstab->kidney->sd->ambush->ambush->recup->ambush, this gets them to half health, they go bear form and I slowly lose regardless of the various cds I use. I shiv whenever I see vengeance.

Blood DKs I open with premed->recup->garrote->hemo->backstab->kidney->sd->ambush->ambush->kidney->recup->ambush, I shiv vengeance and I pop my defensives but I can't seem to dent their health much, meanwhile they hit me like a truck and heal themselves. I cloak/vanish to garrote but it never seems to matter much.

My gear isn't all that great, but even lesser geared blood dks and ferals I have difficulty with.

[CMKenneth]

in before pvp isnt balanced around 1v1.


you cant beat them, unless they are bad. you just cant.

[Evolixe]

you cant beat them, unless they are bad. you just cant.

Yes you can, even the best. If you are capable yourself.. ofcourse.

The clue is in the kiting and the shivving part while carefully selecting your cooldowns. Run when you have no control over his attacks.
Keep gouge free for use on a death grip. Don't even try attacking a blood shield and use your stuns wisely.

[Wollie]

a druid you may be able to beat, but your not going to beat a DK of equal gear and skill level, its just not gonna happen. Unless you can kill them in a 100% stun before they get 1 DS off, which would probably mean an unskilled or undergeared DK, you wont win. you can kite and shiv all you want, but if they get off a single DS, all that kiting was wasted, And considering if your in range to hit them, it means there in range to hit you.

Now if there less skilled or less geared, the rotation your using to down them looks fine. I guess you could put crippling poison on your thrown weapon and just ranged kill them and gouge on the DG

[squid]

Remember you do all your damage in the 10 seconds after an opener as subtlety, so try and stick as much punishment in there as you can, and kite or play defensive between dances/vanish.

Blood DKs can be beaten more easily than ferals, the trick is to not let them get enough death strikes off, so only lay into them when they are disarmed stunned or otherwise controlled. You also have to keep track of their cooldowns, as they are all survival based. Death pact is the worst, so try to kill them while its on cooldown. Blood DKs are easy to kite, and you heal over time, while they only heal in bursts, use that to your advantage and make them chase you while your full bleeds tick, and only jump in when you have a cooldown like dance up.

Ferals unfortunately are much harder, and almost a class counter to rogues. Faerie Fire will prevent you from vanishing, so I use cloak rather than readiness against them, but if you keep an eye you might have a sloppy feral not keeping it on you. Another annoyance is Natures Grasp, so watch for that. they will use it to get distance and put on hots. This is a good time to blind and restealth as the root wears off. Bears can take a lot of punishment but NOT while you have reveal weakness rolling, remember that.

Assuming your gear is good, I usually try and lay down as much punishment as fast as possible on these guys, cause they have so much mitigation, think full opener, dance, vanish offensively, and trinket offensively to burst them down, it will at least force defensive cooldowns and then you can kill them on the next dance and prep a vanish (defensive cooldowns are mostly 2-3min to your 1 min dance) Remember almost all rogue cooldowns are utility, blind can be used to get a new stealth or just refill your energy bar to keep up the pain.

Make sure to use the recently buffed Wound poison against both. I cripple against DKs unless you are waylay specced (helpful against melee) but its near useless against ferals so I use mind numbing. Even though the hots dont have a cast time i believe this DOES still reduce their effectiveness by amount of ticks.

[Gladria]

Can't say much about ferals since i'm having more trouble with them then I am with any other class. Dk's my suggestions is to make sure to never ever forget shiv. Use wound poison on your main hand and deadly on your off hand (make sure to at least try to get 5 stacks up). If he's not either stunned or disarmed then you should be thinking about resetting the fight. Blood dk dps is minimal unless you allow vengence to stack so you shouldn't be burned down.

Try
pre > recoup >Garrot > hemo > ks > sd > amb > amb > cs > amb > disarm > hemo spam > recoup/dice > blind/vanesh (and keep resetting till he's dead, use chiv when your nearing the end of ks/cs/disarm so he can't wail on you)


I just read that some people suggest crippling over deadly. I have tried combination and the deadly has alwasy been more successful. It fully penetrates the blood shield so your always doing at least some damage and I find snair's on dk's are pretty useless since you have strong resets anyways. I never use crippling on ferals or bloods)

[Deleted]

Just shiv of Vengeance and the blood dk/feral when he go in bear form wont destroy you.

[Deleted]

Vanish. Obviously.

[Emophia]

Ferals are very easy if you get the opener.

Rogue VS feral is basically whoever gets the opener wins.

[niteline]

1 on 1 vs Blood DK; Sorry im not good with names, way too big of a keybinder....

-> open with Garrotte and get as wound poison on, do not finish or kidney untill you are unable to backstab him
-> Kidney shot and do this every CD unless the DK used icebound fort
-> After icebound pop shadow dance
-> keep recup and snd up if possible, else just recup

Defence,
when the dk pops rune weapon use your dodge ability
Disarm him right after that, and disarm him when he gets low on HP
Try to keep garrote on whenever possible
CoS when your hp gets under 40%
When ur running under 50% hp and your Shs is nearly up with vanish or SD.. run away -> smokebomb wait for cd and go utter NUTS on him


And dont get caught...

Equal skill and gear youre pretty much screwed unles he fails with his timing once or twice

[Evolixe]

Im sorry niteline, but i'm going to have to disprove your guide.
You are thinking too simple.

First off, you should open without getting hit and saving as many of your abilities for later use as you can. This means you should open with ambush and follow it up with anything to prevent being attacked yourself. I would recommend kidney shot as its not that costly and availeble again soon.

At Icebound Fortitude, you can still gouge the DK. And you should do so. Follow it up by a blind which should be trinketed by the dk. At this point all you want is a restealth. So try getting away with sprint and cloak. Save smoke, you should not need it.

When he pops Dancing Rune Weapon, you should not pop evasion, but keep avoiding him as much as you can. If you have no choice, dismantling him in it would be your best option.

Remember that evasion no longer prevents the dk from healing. Death Strikes still heal even if dodged as of 4.3.

Cloak should not be saved as an emergiency. You should never end up in the position in the first place, but if you do get low.. using a lot of control while maintaining your recuperate and just doing your standard damage is your best option.

Use your 2 vanishes wisely, even though you should not end up at any dangerous health levels does not mean the stars cannot align for the DK. Make sure to have atleast one as an emergiency escape.

Gouge all Death Grip's.

[MangoSpirit]

well. i only do arena for points >.> but in bgs. i usually shiv alot. with wound poison. if they pop dancing rune weap i disarm, if they IBF or vamp blood i blind and run.
once their trink and cds are for the most part spent. i kidney shot and LOLshadowdance burst.

this is against dks btw.

also. im no pro. this just works for me most of the time. theres some pretty awful kids in bgs tho.

[Evolixe]

You shiv Wound Poison? Then how do you shiv slows?

[Deleted]

you cant , i killed a resto druid AND a fury warrior in 2s ( my partner , hunter died) so i kept healing myself with my ghouls , death coil , death strike , rune tap and crap like that (: when i got the druid close i knocked him out ( hge popped 4x tree form that arena ) and after the druid died i killed the warrior...

its my alt and i am just surprised how op he is....

[Brewski]

Feral druids... make them go defensive. If they are in bear they can't do anything, once they shift to cat or human form stun them and DPS the shit out of them. Uses CC as much as possible, don't let them cyclone/run away.

Blood DK's are pretty much impossible to kill as a rogue 1v1. You have to blow all your cooldowns. Use stuns, evasion, dismantle, shiv, blinds, gouge, etc... try to kite them, if they death grip you just gouge them. You won't win the fight, but you won't die either. They can't kill you & you can't kill them.

[furcouch514]

It really depends on the DK.. Most of the time against lesser skilled player 1 Full Duration Kidney followed by a disarm is usually enough to kill him. I rarely see DK's use the rune that reduces disarm time, they usually have fallen crusader or something good. Everything people said makes it sound like it's impossible. It's quite possible and I do it often. It's a lot harder against a full Ruth elite DK, but you don't see those around quite often. Gouge is yer friend.

[Malgru]

Run. As far as you can. Run away as fast as you possibly can.

OT: You really have to Shiv and endlessly kite with Rupture, Crippling Poison, and Hemo. If you see an opportunity, Vanish, Pop CDs, and go in for the kill in a couple stuns. Make sure he's used IBF and trinket though.