Enhancement = Tanking spec? (Poll)

[Sorrior]

Yes i would love it.

[Sand Person]

Would be awesome with a 4th spec. 2h enhance tanking with rockbiter sounds good to me

exactly this. even better to have a 2H or 1H + shield option for 4th spec shammy tank! but alas, it ill never happen.

[Deleted]

Yes, as long as it comes in the form of a 4th talent tree and uses 2x onehand, or 1x twohand weapon. CL could be a sweet opener for aggro

But for now i would be more happy to see all the MoP talents work and see the holes (aka no def CD for ele, etc) filled.

[Oneleg]

That would be cool, but I was originally saying changing the enhancement tree to be a tanking specific tree instead of damage. A 4th tree like the druid would be a sweet thing though, although i think other classes would be jealous and mad.

This is why he said Hell no. Why would you take one of the most fun specs in the game and turn it into another tank spec? If you want to tank just jump onto one of the 4 class's that already have that ability.

---------- Post added 2012-02-20 at 12:31 PM ----------

If Monks are getting a tank and healing spec, then Shamans deserve to have their unfinished tank spec back in full glory. Heck, even give Rogues a tank spec via Combat spec. Even the new Demonology "tree" for Warlocks can easily be turned into a tank spec.

I hate it when developers create a new class/character because they refuse to test changes with an existing class properly *couWarriorgh* and it ends up being a mixture of two classes they failed to balance and keep interesting *couDKgh*.

Monks are just rogue + shaman, whereas DKs are just warrior + warlock. Druids were the first type of this class and we all know how that turned out. Instead of making the core classes interesting they give a new class better version of it with a different name and color.

Really fucking hate Ghostcrawler...

Hell give everyone a tank spec, then give everyone a 2 hand DPS spec, then give everyone a 2 hand melee spec "yeah battle mage" then then just call this game Hello Kitty Island...

STOP with the watering down of every class and spec, I want them to remove Timewarp, and whatever the hunter Heroism / Bloodlust is called. I want them to take away everything they have stolen from every class and given to every other class in the name of "Bring the player not the class" bullshit that has watered this game down so badly.

Then give us back just a hint of difficulty in the lower level dungeons instead of this AFK fest that we have and slow down leveling so people freaking learn how to use those abilities your giving out every 5 min the way it is now.

So hard to play this game with people that have no clue they can sheep as a mage at lvl 80, now you want to add in the ability to tank to shaman. This has been discussed to death just search for it.

[Deleted]

Enhancement dps is incredibly fun, if I want to tank I'll just hop on my pally or warrior.

So my answer is hell fucking no.



Also, jaylock, are you like the master of making annoying threads?

---------- Post added 2012-02-20 at 03:44 PM ----------

Enhancement dps is incredibly fun, if I want to tank I'll just hop on my pally or warrior.

So my answer is hell fucking no.



Also, jaylock, are you like the master of making annoying threads?

<Mod Edit: User was infracted for this post.>

[Jiwari]

Blizz has already clearly stated the point of rockbiter was for low lvl dungeons and situations where the shaman may want to taunt something off of a healer or taunt something for kiting purposes.

Could you link me that post? I'd be very interested in seeing it because rockbiter becomes available at level 75 and unleash, which is the key part of making something attack you, becomes availalble at 81. I don't see how the talent can be made to work in low level dungeons at all.

---------- Post added 2012-02-20 at 03:15 PM ----------

Well Rockbiter is there to be a distracting shot.. does it Taunt NO it forces the enemy to attack for couple secs.

And Shaman have never been tank so there for wouldn't have tank legacy talents..

Never an official tank class, no. But that doesn't mean that it never happened. Also Arms and Fury never ..... owait...

[Cai]

Never an official tank class, no. But that doesn't mean that it never happened. Also Arms and Fury never ..... owait...

Can't compare Shaman to Arms/Fury. Not all Warrior tank abilities are in the Prot tree, so therefore Arms/Fury can use tank abilities.

[Jiwari]

I had originally intended that remark as a joke honestly, along the lines of offtanking because the tanks died. I don't really expect that you can tank in Enh with rockbiter, or that you ever could.

[Mikael123]

When I think of a shaman I don't think of anything tank-like. So to me making shamans a tanking class makes just as much sense as making mages a tanking class.

[zox2]

I'd hate to see the enha dps disappear, but as a 4th shaman spec? Hell yea!

[ComputerNerd]

The reason that they had any sort of tank-like abilities was because it was a failed attempt by blizzard to previously make them a tanking class.
But it was something they decided did not work.

Druids are currently an exception with the 4th spec due to a tree which currently is responsible for two distinct roles, something no other class has to deal with.
Shaman do not "deserve" anything in that regard.

Those bits and pieces left over should have been removed long ago.

[DrakeWurrum]

Adding another tank into the mix is a good reason as well. There is certainly no negative consequence in adding a tank spec for shaman.....

Firstly, adding another tank into the mix doesn't change anything. We already have a tank that wields shields, can use offensive magic, and can heal himself/use defensive magic: Paladins. It adds *nothing* new to the game. The only unique thing would be a tank that uses totems and/or pets/summons. (and why wasn't Warlock or Hunter made into tank instead, which would be dramatically more unique than Shaman? They use pets and summons too, but they don't use Shields or healing magic!)

Also, yes, there IS a negative consequence: resources. Blizzard can only do so much. They can do a lot, but they can't do everything. It's why we still don't have a dance studio. It's why the race models aren't being updated. It's why Shaman, for the entirety of T13, has the worst interrupt in the game. It's why Enhancement is arguably the least-desired melee spec in arena and RBGs.
So taking precious resources to add a tank spec to Shaman is taking resources from somewhere else in the game, including class balance. What if they decide to neglect the other Shaman specs in order to make their new spec work? Or, even worse, what if they chose to neglect balancing another class so that it doesn't become OP, because the team was far too focused on making Shaman tanking work?
What if instead of adding a new class to the game, they decide to devote all that manpower to making just ONE new spec for Shaman?

We can't know how it would turn out, or what things would fall behind as a result, but we know it has a cost.

Designing it wouldn't even be all that difficult, no more then a brand new monk class, or new guardian spec for druid.

So "not difficult" that all tanks in Cata and Wrath were considered equal at tanking by the entire playerbase, right? Nobody favored Paladin and bashed on DKs or Druids?
It's not difficult to design anything. What is difficult is balancing it. Adding yet another spec to the game to be balanced against the other tank specs, while still struggling to make them uniquely distinct from Paladins and Warriors, as well as making sure it's not crazy OP for PvP the way Blood DK was for a while (and still somewhat is)... is where it actually gets difficult.

[Jaylock]

The reason that they had any sort of tank-like abilities was because it was a failed attempt by blizzard to previously make them a tanking class.
But it was something they decided did not work.

Druids are currently an exception with the 4th spec due to a tree which currently is responsible for two distinct roles, something no other class has to deal with.
Shaman do not "deserve" anything in that regard.

Those bits and pieces left over should have been removed long ago.

Why remove the abilities unless they had plans to try again at making them a viable tanking class? I think it would be awesome to see the shaman as a tank. It would be different and refreshing as opposed to only plate and leather wearing tanks. It would also take the community some getting used to, but i think it could work out with enough balancing and tweaking.

[DrakeWurrum]

Why remove the abilities unless they had plans to try again at making them a viable tanking class?

You answered your question: they didn't have such plans.

They removed the Shield talent. They didn't make Mail defense gear at raid level, ever, let alone in TBC. And then when Cata came out, they decided tanks should get their defense rating entirely from TALENTS, thus killing all the people who find greens with defense rating to make other classes somewhat tank. (in addition, not only do we no longer use Strength gear, but Strength doesn't improve block chance or block size anymore. At least Agi gives us Dodge, eh?)
For a LONG time, our AoE was tied primarily to totems, which meant we could not gather AoE threat to ourselves. Even today, with the Flame Shock exploding Fire Nova, it is a clunky process to get any amount of AoE threat since we first need to Flame Shock a target, then hit Lava Lash, and THEN hit Fire Nova. Tanking AoE is much more simple and much more... snappy?


The *ONLY* reason Rockbiter is the game was so that Hunters were not the only class with a fixate. Note that a fixate forces the target to attack you without actually affecting threat. This means that when the fixate is over, the target goes back to following the threat list.
A taunt will take the threat of the highest target and make it yours (maybe a little extra too? 110%?), as WELL as making them fixate on you.

Now Blizzard is going to remove even that, because they realized two things.
A: Another fixate wasn't really needed.
B: All it did was serve to confuse players, and unintentionally cause players to think Shaman tanking would come back

They don't want to be confusing AT ALL about this subject, as they have openly stated and even JOKED (remember the GC comment, about tanking with a 2hander?) that it's not going to happen.

[Sorrior]

This is why he said Hell no. Why would you take one of the most fun specs in the game and turn it into another tank spec? If you want to tank just jump onto one of the 4 class's that already have that ability.

---------- Post added 2012-02-20 at 12:31 PM ----------



Hell give everyone a tank spec, then give everyone a 2 hand DPS spec, then give everyone a 2 hand melee spec "yeah battle mage" then then just call this game Hello Kitty Island...

STOP with the watering down of every class and spec, I want them to remove Timewarp, and whatever the hunter Heroism / Bloodlust is called. I want them to take away everything they have stolen from every class and given to every other class in the name of "Bring the player not the class" bullshit that has watered this game down so badly.

Then give us back just a hint of difficulty in the lower level dungeons instead of this AFK fest that we have and slow down leveling so people freaking learn how to use those abilities your giving out every 5 min the way it is now.

So hard to play this game with people that have no clue they can sheep as a mage at lvl 80, now you want to add in the ability to tank to shaman. This has been discussed to death just search for it.

Ok then since you want every spec to be what it once was you want enh to tank since that was one of our original roles. Back in vanilla we were the anti pally with a MUCH better stoneskin and cooler buffs to support the ability to at LEAST offtank. Why do you think we even have the ability to use shields? for casting nah not really we have it cause originally our DPS was a 2h style and our "tanking" was a board and well mace style.

[Deleted]

I must admit that I wouldnt like to see enhancment become a tanking specific tree, for one i have become very attached to my shaman this expansion, ehance is the most fun out of all the shaman spec's, i would even go as far as saying melee DPS specs, and besides if blizzard did allow it they would make us unviable and useless in most situations

[DrakeWurrum]

Ok then since you want every spec to be what it once was you want enh to tank since that was one of our original roles. Back in vanilla we were the anti pally with a MUCH better stoneskin and cooler buffs to support the ability to at LEAST offtank. Why do you think we even have the ability to use shields? for casting nah not really we have it cause originally our DPS was a 2h style and our "tanking" was a board and well mace style.

No, we have Shields because originally we were the anti-Pally, as you said. Horde couldn't use Paladins, and without Shaman, Warrior would be the only other class that used Shields. That has since CHANGED, and as such the Shaman design can be something much more distinct (such as using DW instead of yet-another-2H-class). However, Blizzard felt a caster class using Shields was still very unique, and decided to keep it, despite the fact that we have absolutely no skills supporting our Shield-usage.
(But then, Mages, Priests, Warlocks, and Druids have no skills supporting the OH-frill or wands, either, so who cares)

We never were seriously made into tanks any more than Paladins were. Vanilla tanking was primarily done with Warriors.

[Tactic6995]

No.

Make that hell no.

Second that.

[AwdBawl]

No.

Make that hell no.

I'd delete my shaman in a heartbeat if enhancement was made into a tanking spec.

[UunaPriest]

Oh look, this thread for the 3404209348230948230498th time.
It's never going to happen.