Concerns with LFR

[Aquamonkey]

though unstated, I believe the lfr rolls are being modified more than blizz has stated....it is my understanding that rolls are modified by 2 factors: 1-do you already have the token piece and 2-role bonuses for gear matching your roll in the raid......however....I have now taken 5 toons into LFR and found that new LFR toons or lowly geared toons winn multiple rolls while as each toon becomes more geared the possibility of winning decreases. 4 of my toons went into lfr at 372ilvl and walked away from their 1st four bosses with 3 tier peices. this seems more and more unlikely each time it happens....anyone else noticing this?

Anecdotal evidence is not valid for determining large scale probability distributions. RNG is RNG. There are no hidden roll mechanics that favor lower geared toons.

[Nightlark]

Sorry all, wasn't intended as a name and shame. I'm the shame here for raging over loot. Just needed to vent a little

[Lyreth]

Who cares? PvP gear is fine for LFR and LFD. They aren't hard enough where 40% less of a secondary stat is going to break you. Often, PvP gear has more of the primary stat because it's higher ilvl than LFR/LFD gear. Primary stat > secondary stat (unless you are a plate tank).

PVP tanks and healers can't keep up for the most part, sure there are exceptions when fully gemmed and enchanted, the problem is people are using 377 pvp blues and leaving them as they are. This results in people doing extremely low damage/healing and tanking not even possible. Sure LFR is easy, but when you have 15 people who can't do their job because they cheated the gear requirement with pvp gear either equipped or in bags. You ever wipe in LFR? I have a few times because of people who cant keep up in pvp gear. Also why should they skip doing hour of twilight 5 mans and go into LFR. I would never take a pve geared player into a rated BG because they would get destroyed. Same thing applies to pvp in pve they don't stand a chance on the meters vs a pve geared player meaning that they are getting carried.

I will even go as far as to say dps and healers can have pvp gear in 5 mans since we can use pve in regular bgs. I don't see why someone who takes the time to gear properly for the type of game they like to play should lose it to someone who crosses over (same as people in BH getting pvp gear, I always check their rating)

[Deleted]

Don't expect any loot when entering LFR...

^ More or less this. Imo LFR is a tool to see the content, that means the lore, those cinematics, the boss models, animations and a small taste of their mechanics. Its like a continuation of doing dailies or quests, its not mean to give great loot and certainly not consistent loot. If you want raid loot then join a raiding guild and raid.

On a side note I know of people who hit 85, instantly buy a bunch of cloth to sit in their bags and queue for LFR. Even so they manage to pull the DPS/HPS that is technically required for the fights, LFR really is that easy. But granted, on average most people doing this are not going to be good at the game and won't pull their weight even with proper gear. Its rare to see someone abusing the system like this and still pulling their weight.

[Aquamonkey]

PVP tanks and healers can't keep up for the most part, sure there are exceptions when fully gemmed and enchanted, the problem is people are using 377 pvp blues and leaving them as they are. This results in people doing extremely low damage/healing and tanking not even possible. Sure LFR is easy, but when you have 15 people who can't do their job because they cheated the gear requirement with pvp gear either equipped or in bags. You ever wipe in LFR? I have a few times because of people who cant keep up in pvp gear. Also why should they skip doing hour of twilight 5 mans and go into LFR. I would never take a pve geared player into a rated BG because they would get destroyed. Same thing applies to pvp in pve they don't stand a chance on the meters vs a pve geared player meaning that they are getting carried.

I will even go as far as to say dps and healers can have pvp gear in 5 mans since we can use pve in regular bgs. I don't see why someone who takes the time to gear properly for the type of game they like to play should lose it to someone who crosses over (same as people in BH getting pvp gear, I always check their rating)

Bear tanks in PvP gear are fine since their primary tanking stat is Agi/Armor. Plate tanks... yea they need PvE gear to tank. Healers in PvP gear are fine too; Int is primary stat. DPS in PvP gear are fine. Even in 377 crafted PvP gear these classes are fine for LFD and LFR. My warlock has 377 crafted PvP gear, some slots are even spirit (cheaper mats), and I still do top 10 dps in LFR. The gear requirements aren't that high for a successful LFR.

Hell, my paly has totally shit PvE holy gear (by shit I mean 353 ave ilvl, no enchants/gems and greens). I get in because my tank set is fine. I'm also pretty bad at hpal, but I still sustain 10khps and rank 3rd on healing without going oom.

It's not a problem with gear, it's a problem with people who don't know their class/role playing like shit.

[kosechi]

^ More or less this. Imo LFR is a tool to see the content, that means the lore, those cinematics, the boss models, animations and a small taste of their mechanics. Its like a continuation of doing dailies or quests, its not mean to give great loot and certainly not consistent loot. If you want raid loot then join a raiding guild and raid.

if you want to see content you can do regular mode, seriously, normal mode is not hard, at all. even with a limited raid schedule normal mode can be cleared in around 3 hours. less if you have half a brain in your head.

lfr is for gearing up my offspec and alts. i get kind of annoyed when i lose gear to some one doing half my damage/hps. sure you can say 'lol alts' but you know what. this is my 5th alt who i've run through this place. i barely know how to play a priest and i'm out healing you simply by pressing CoH on cooldown. why should you be rewarded when i did the actual carrying?

[Deleted]

i get kind of annoyed when i lose gear to some one doing half my damage/hps. i barely know how to play a priest and i'm out healing you simply by pressing CoH on cooldown. why should you be rewarded when i did the actual carrying?

Because they won the role, duh.
Much better question is - who are you to say people that aren't doing as much dps or healing as you do, shouldn't get a roll?
Stop being so greedy and loot-obsessed.

[Lyreth]

Bear tanks in PvP gear are fine since their primary tanking stat is Agi/Armor. Plate tanks... yea they need PvE gear to tank. Healers in PvP gear are fine too; Int is primary stat. DPS in PvP gear are fine. Even in 377 crafted PvP gear these classes are fine for LFD and LFR. My warlock has 377 crafted PvP gear, some slots are even spirit (cheaper mats), and I still do top 10 dps in LFR. The gear requirements aren't that high for a successful LFR.

Hell, my paly has totally shit PvE holy gear (by shit I mean 353 ave ilvl, no enchants/gems and greens). I get in because my tank set is fine. I'm also pretty bad at hpal, but I still sustain 10khps and rank 3rd on healing without going oom.

It's not a problem with gear, it's a problem with people who don't know their class/role playing like shit.

First of let me say (kind of a spin off of what you said)

Lets assume that all these players are the same skill level:

Player + great pve gear (384-416)
Player + decent pve gear (373-384)
Player + Great pvp gear (ilvl 403 pvp gear)
player + poor pve gear (under ilvl 372)
Player + poor pvp gear (ilvl 377 and below)

Even if they suck the gear is going to carry the player with the best gear for the situation to the top. The idea behind keeping pvp gear out is that I have come to the understanding that 90% of people in LFR are 7 year olds smashing their keyboard. With this being said I would rather some 7 year old in decent pve gear than someone in pvp gear. Now as you can see above that Great PVP actually beats poor pve. The goal is to remove great pvp and below from LFR, now remember this is assumed everyone is still a 7 year old. Now of course there are people that can run 377 gear in LFR and be in the top 10 because 1. LFR is a joke 2. the majority of people don't know their class. The issue is you are a 377 ilvl pvp geared player carrying 4 377 ilvl idiots that are doing 5k dps. The nice part is in mists this wont be an issue. (btw just queued and got a warrior tank in ilvl 377 gear and watched him get 2 shotted.) I don't hate pvp gear in pve I just think people are able to use it to cheat the ilvl system which was designed around pve gear ilvl. So lets just change the difficulty to incorporate pvp gear and reduce LFR "difficulty" by 20%

[heal]

best one iv seen so far is a pally tank in full 377 pvp ret gear with agi gems trying to tank morchok

[kosechi]

Because they won the role, duh.
Much better question is - who are you to say people that aren't doing as much dps or healing as you do, shouldn't get a roll?
Stop being so greedy and loot-obsessed.

no. they shouldn't. lfr is really stupidly easy. i went in drunk on my ret to test some addons, maintained about a 10% inquisition uptime, and had elvui's config open for half the fights and still out dpsed 90% of the raid.
this game is not hard. stop making me think it must be hard if people fail so hard on neutered mechanics in lfr.

why shouldn't i be greedy? i did more work then you. i should be rewarded for that.

[Deleted]

no. they shouldn't. lfr is really stupidly easy. i went in drunk on my ret to test some addons, maintained about a 10% inquisition uptime, and had elvui's config open for half the fights and still out dpsed 90% of the raid.
this game is not hard. stop making me think it must be hard if people fail so hard on neutered mechanics in lfr.

why shouldn't i be greedy? i did more work then you. i should be rewarded for that.

I'm trying to make you think it must be hard? What? This makes no sence.

I fully agree LFR is troll-easy, which is yet another reason not to cry so much about it. You need to accept this isn't a guild-run, not even a pug, it's LFR - where everyone has an equal chance at the loot as long as they're present at the time the boss keels over.

"I did more work", so what? You pressed your buttons a lot because you wanted to. No one forced you to. Doesn't mean you should get priority on loot.

Do you pass on loot you want/need to people who put out higher numbers than you do? Honestly? If you dont, what are you talking?

[Lickmun]

A lot of people expect LFR to be a "real" normal or heroic raid, but clearly it is not. A raid leader would never let most of the people in, because of either bad gear or bad play. It's frustrating for us "real raiders" who just want to go in and gear an alt or maybe complete our 4pc for our off spec.

The problem is there's no real feedback for the poor players to improve, they most likely don't know that a strength gem doesn't improve the DPS of their mage. If they don't have a meter addon, they don't even know or care what their DPS is. Usually they are just treated with hostility and perhaps removed from the group. "You have been removed from the group" is not a helpful message to get these people to improve so it's the same, week after week.

[kosechi]

I'm trying to make you think it must be hard? What? This makes no sence.

I fully agree LFR is troll-easy, which is yet another reason not to cry so much about it. You need to accept this isn't a guild-run, not even a pug, it's LFR - where everyone has an equal chance at the loot as long as they're present at the time the boss keels over.

"I did more work", so what? You pressed your buttons a lot because you wanted to. No one forced you to. Doesn't mean you should get priority on loot.

Do you pass on loot you want/need to people who put out higher numbers than you do? Honestly? If you dont, what are you talking?

why not? i out performed other players while completely distracted or on a class i barely know how to play. i must be a truly amazing player ( no, i'm not, i'm pretty average) or most players must find this game really really hard.

i like fairness, i should be rewarded for performing better then the next guy. you should not be rewarded for other people's work.

i have actually passed loot i wanted to people who out performed me if they asked me for it. however, i can count on one hand the times that has happened.

[Lyreth]

Alternative solutions to loot in LFR:


Find that magic number that at ilvl 372 you do have to do x amount of healing/damage in a fight and if you do not meet that requirement you do not get loot. For example a healer that pulls 10k hps is going to be fine and able to win loot because he actually did his job (not saying its great but he did it). Now a guy who does 6k hps on a fight is unable to win loot because he barely healed. Now this pretty much encourages padding the meters, but at least padding will have them do more healing than they currently are doing. The people who are already fine don't really need to pad meters because they already meet the requirement. Same idea can be applied to dps, the guy who does 5k dps SHOULD NOT get loot. I understand that losing loot sucks and people SHOULD NOT have a sense of entitlement to loot since they did better than another player. I am saying if you are going to enter LFR and AFK or auto attack then why do you even deserve loot? The issue is all the people who enter and do this or bot are just slowing down all the people trying or even wiping the raid because you are trying to 10 man 25 man LFR. Sure if you have 10 players that are well geared this is fine, but its pretty rare to see that many geared people.

[Deja Thoris]

why not? i out performed other players

Noone cares (except you) It's not performance based. Never was. Never will be.

The sonner you accept this, move on and stop fighting a losing battle / getting angsty over it the better.

[announced]

ive seen worse.. best thing to do is stop caring about lfr... most people can afk on the figths and win all the gear they want.. theres no reprimands for it.. just go afk and win stuff too.. then u can make people mad as well.

[kosechi]

Noone cares (except you) It's not performance based. Never was. Never will be.

The sonner you accept this, move on and stop fighting a losing battle / getting angsty over it the better.

and why isn't it? i get rewarded with bonus dkp in my raid group for doing better dps and killing bosses, i get rewarded for out playing other teams in arena by having better rewards available to me and more currency to spend on them. i get rewarded with commissions at work for clearing more sales then the next girl.

why shouldn't i be rewarded for playing better then you in lfr? i did the work. you just afked on sailed by on my coat tails. why should you be rewarded for that?

[Pyrelight]

Well, OP is raging because he felt like he didn't get rewarded for his efforts made in LFR. Sometimes I feel the same. When I pull 25k HPS on my not so well geared priest alt only to have someone that afk'd until the 4th platform roll and win the healing mace off DW, it's basically inevitable.

But then again, I have also had toons that have gone in and won loot while doing 15k dps or under. I worked hard because I enjoy working hard on a character and bringing out his/her best capabilities. That's how I enjoy the game, just like how some people like to AFK through everything just to roll on loot. LFR caters to everyone who PAYS FOR THE GAME, not only those who would devote time to study and improve their toons. Normal and Heroic modes are the place those people should be at.

[Deleted]

Does it still works that you can buy some high ilvl gear and just leave it in bag (keep it BoE) to boost your ilvl?

[desaulniers]

LFR is a tool..