LFR isn't and never was about "seeing the content."

[Lightfist]

Actually. I want to see the content. I didn't see the Lich King until Cata. My group is presently 5/8 in nDS and have been stuck on Blackhorn for 4 weeks. No we're not great players, but we takes our 2x/week raids seriously. LFR was very helpful to introduce us to the mechanics, and get some gear and set bonuses. Hopefully we'll kill Deathwing within a month, but I think LFR was a great way to introduce players like me to end game content.

I am sorry you didn't get to kill the Lich King, but I am certain killing Death Wing on normal after killing him in LFR will not be the same experience.

Just seeing Arthas made me giggle like a schoolgirl - I couldn't have given less of a shit when I fought Deathwing's toe.

[Aquamonkey]

It's easy enough to understand. Blizzard does it so that guilds keep moving. If progression stops for a raid group for long enough, the group falls apart. Blizzard wants to keep them creeping forward so that doesn't happen.

Nothing ruins the gaming experience for players than a guild-killing boss.

[Taurous]

The first run was to see the content. The following 100 runs were to get loot.

[shemarra]

Whether Blizzard intended it or not, to the vast majority of the playerbase, LFR has always been about being a big juicy loot piñata for them to whack at once a week. Proof of this statement you ask? Imagine if the gear it dropped was below Heroic dungeon level gear ilvl, or if it didn't drop loot at all? Who would be in there just to gear up for heroics or for the lore experience of seeing the end-boss go down? Most of the players that clamor for this type of crap saying couldn't care less about that.

Really, all this has been about, is just the new mentality of the playerbase finally feeling that Blizzard should be responsible for making sure those that put in the work, maximize their performance, and earn hard-to-complete feats in the game, never have anything that they can't have for practically free, with no effort whatsoever. Proof of that? Look how we now have gradual nerfs over normal and heroic modes, giving those same players access to not the content, but the GEAR that comes from clearing that content. They already got to kill all of the bosses, they have the aesthetic look of all of the weapons and tier that comes with LFR, why do they need to clear through harder content made easier, thus negating the point of 3 difficulty levels? It's no longer harder, so you mighta as well have just stuck to the freebie mode.

But why do they want to clear it so bad? It's not about the lore, and it's not about the progression. It's about the loot

I somewhat disagree... If they had LFR versions of Tier 11 and 12 I would do them to see the content... Other might for transmogs.

[namelessone]

...care to explain this? Or were you just going to make irrational assumptions because you're wrapped up in a silly class war?

I'm using "hardcore" in a political sense pretty much. World of Warcraft has ten million players, vast majority of them are average. They play their game, do their raids, do their PvP and cancel once they grow bored. Then, there is this group of players who take to the forums proclaiming that only the cream of the crop (read: anyone of at least their skill level) deserves anything in the game. I'm not against challenge itself, but challenge breeds elitism, and elitism breeds that "class war" you mentioned. If developers can somehow deal the blow to elitism while preserving challenging aspects of the game - that would be the best outcome as I see it.

[Megavolt]

@OP:
Not entirely true,

In my case, I quit wow in 4.2 and just came back to see if anything improved only to find my server has basically died and my guild that has been solid since Naxx 2.0 is completely dead. If it wasn't for LFR I would not have been able to see how cataclysm ends becuase at this point I have very little motivation to keep playing (lol) let alone even bother finding another decent raiding guild (applying, tryouts, ext.) just to see that content before kung fu panda expansion...

LFR needs to have some sort of incentive however, EVERYTHING needs to have some sort of incentive so people that have already done it once will keep using it helping fuel the pool base so everyone can get in with decent queues. Even the original cataclysm heroics have incentives to still run them every now then for currency be it JP or VP.

[mvaliz]

[video=youtube;gfxPZZ6fmNE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfxPZZ6fmNE&list=LLKPk74yHocX3qYIKT6MzA-A&index=1&feature=plpp_video[video]

This Video Sums UP LFR! Replace Heroics with Raids!

Yeah... it's people who have the mind like the person who created that video which cost Blizzard almost 2 million subscriptions by making players who value "fun" over "Difficult time-consuming challenge" as somehow stupid and wrong.

[javen]

It depends if you play for the loot or not. Believe it or not, the driving force behind many people playing the game isn't just to have bigger numbers attached to their gear.

In seven years, the college/high school kids that started playing WoW and could dump dozens of hours a week now have jobs and families that don't always make time for raiding. LFR is a very effective answer to that growing demographic of WoW players who's lives have noticably changed from the days of Vanilla or BC but still enjoy raiding. If you only care about loot, then everything is going to be a loot pinata because that's the lens from which you view content. I, unfortunately, tend to have less patience for these types, because they're also the people who raid and raid and raid, until they get the gear they want, then cut and run.

[Televators]

What's your point? All raiding is about:

1. Character progression (i.e: Loot)
2. Entertainment (i.e: Fun)
3. Experience (i.e: Experiencing the content)

...generally in that order. Why should LFR be any different?

[Rude Hero]

I did lfr ds twice. Once to see the fights, and a second time to accompany my friend while he saw the fights.

Granted, the people who are still running it every week are probably doing it just for the loot, but lfr was useful to me, as someone who no longer has the time or dedication to commit to a raiding schedule.

[Ozteck]

But why do they want to clear it so bad? It's not about the lore, and it's not about the progression. It's about the loot

And how does this affect you in any manner whatsoever?

[namelessone]

I did lfr ds twice. Once to see the fights, and a second time to accompany my friend while he saw the fights.

Granted, the people who are still running it every week are probably doing it just for the loot, but lfr was useful to me, as someone who no longer has the time or dedication to commit to a raiding schedule.

I am doing it for the loot, because I can't always raid on schedule with my guild and I don't want to fall too far behind.

[MestHoop]

You have your hard modes to climb + hard mode achieves. I'll never see those. In MoP you will have challenges. Blizz is accommodating a spectrum of players quite well. You are still elite.

That's actually what I said a few posts ago (page 1), I was just answering someone's questions in the one you quoted

Also I don't like using the word "elite" (or "hardcore/casual" for that matter). Especially considering there is a WIDE spectrum of players even amongst those guilds considered "hardcore". But I guess those players need to be classified SOMEhow.

[Aquamonkey]

LFR is fine, I just wish Blizzard would tighten up the loot rolling to ensure those that make a contribution past a certain point get the bonus, but those that don't don't.
Eg, if you queue as DPS you *must* hit a certain threshold of damage (such as 15-20k), and if you don't you lose the bonus to the roll you might had you gotten loot. WOuld make people try that tiny bit harder as opposed to hitting 1-2 buttons then afking and winning stuff.

As for LFR though, fine as it is, just needs a lot of tightening up regarding loot distribution which sadly is something Blizz won't touch.

This would screw over dps who die early to terrible tanks (like ultrax tanks who don't taunt/heroic will).

[Lightfist]

I'm using "hardcore" in a political sense pretty much. World of Warcraft has ten million players, vast majority of them are average. They play their game, do their raids, do their PvP and cancel once they grow bored. Then, there is this group of players who take to the forums proclaiming that only the cream of the crop (read: anyone of at least their skill level) deserves anything in the game. I'm not against challenge itself, but challenge breeds elitism, and elitism breeds that "class war" you mentioned. If developers can somehow deal the blow to elitism while preserving challenging aspects of the game - that would be the best outcome as I see it.

And what of the opposite end of the spectrum? The people who want all for nothing? Are they any better for this game?

[Televators]

LFR is fine, I just wish Blizzard would tighten up the loot rolling to ensure those that make a contribution past a certain point get the bonus, but those that don't don't.
Eg, if you queue as DPS you *must* hit a certain threshold of damage (such as 15-20k), and if you don't you lose the bonus to the roll you might had you gotten loot. WOuld make people try that tiny bit harder as opposed to hitting 1-2 buttons then afking and winning stuff.

As for LFR though, fine as it is, just needs a lot of tightening up regarding loot distribution which sadly is something Blizz won't touch.

This doesn't work though, as occasionally, someone who is capable of hitting those thresholds will instead choose to help out when utility or back up heals are necessary and while this positively affects the group, it negatively affects their total damage and dps. This is why you shouldn't base merit on damage alone. Some fights, for instance, require dozens of interrupts and if no one in the raid is doing it, the one or two good players end up being responsible for all of them and losing out on the dps they would have been doing had they not had to do all of them themselves.

[Aphrel]

op have a good point tbh. Gradually nerfing content rly does completly remove the point of have 3 difficulties to start with.

imo they should jsut make LFR/normal/heroic content have the same loot. that way clearing new bosses is only about prestige and nothing else.

[Quarts]

Who cares? If you're in a heroic progression guild, you're in the upper level of raiders and what casuals/bads do is of no concern to you. If you're not, then you obviously need and/or want the gear and should run LFR.

[painweaver]

The reasoning of making LFR so people can see content is actually very poor design and logic. If everyone see the entire raid the day that it is introduced in the patch the content is going to go stale much much sooner than previous patches that did not have the LFR mechanic. For some, just getting to see the final boss was a goal for raiding, and now that goal is gone.

[namelessone]

And what of the opposite end of the spectrum? The people who want all for nothing? Are they any better for this game?

I have never in my experience playing the game of actively participating in the community EVER met a person who flat out said that they want the highest tier epic gear and the rarest rewards without doing anything. So I can't really talk about "opposite side". Usually below average players just want to have a chance to do something meaningful in the game without being ostracized by the community.