PVE: No CC for Jedi Guardian or companion?

[Maniac2]

Recently, I rerolled to Jedi Guardian tank to lvl 30 now after playing Sith Marauder and there is one thing that bothers me: JG has no CC ( i dont mean stuns, slows etc,), i mean real CC. Marauder at least has that droid-only CC, but Jedi has none. I was hoping to solo some heroic2+ quests, but it turns quite hard (or impossible) with no CC. Also, Kira dont have any cc...
I also got BH who gets 2 cc abilities from the start (and capable healer comp), concussion missile and Mako`s freeze.
Isnt all this a bit unfair to JGs?
In FPs it would be also usefull to apply CC by myself, instead to wait and keep reminding group to use CC.
What do you guys think?

[kenn9530]

guardian gets an aoe stun, knock back, 2 leaps, a 3 sec stun, the only thing guardian needs along with jugg dps is an extra dmg reduction cd for pvp purposes.

[GeneticVigilance]

you missed the point he said cc, as in 1 min remove from combat, not oh 2-3 seconds so i might not die.....

and in terms of being unfair.... i wouldnt really say so, you have so much to compensate for the lack of cc. Im prolly gonna get trolled for saying this, but if you want to level with a spec thats crazy op, go focus, you will tear through things faster than anything. however, you will be squishy, and after your FE/FS are on cd your not gonna be hitting too hard, so weakness there.

also, if you want to level as a tank, id highly suggest 2 things, switching between healer and dps companions (threat practice, and healing for hard pulls) as well as pulling more than 1 or 2 groups with doc out. this way youll learn threat management and cd rotations for max level if you plan to tank at all. (if you know them awesome, but it helps to relearn a diff class this way)

[Profyrion]

Sentinels get the same Droid-only polymorph ability that Marauders get. But you're right, Guardians don't get a CC.

[Maniac2]

Sentinels get the same Droid-only polymorph ability that Marauders get. But you're right, Guardians don't get a CC.

Btw, do Juggeranauts as Guardian mirror gets droid-only cc or only Sentinels/marauders get it?

---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 06:45 PM ----------

you missed the point he said cc, as in 1 min remove from combat, not oh 2-3 seconds so i might not die.....

Hehe, wanted to write same thing, but I bite my tongue, ppl obviously not reading carefully

[gualdhar]

if guardians don't have it, juggs don't either.

And its not "unfair." Different classes are different, and almost every class is missing some sort of quality of life ability. Commandos don't get an interrupt or a combat res. Scoundrels don't get a gap closer. Shadow tanks don't get a leap to target, guardian tanks don't get a pull. Every class is balanced out like this.

[Judge Malthred]

I will take the instant, (free in 1.2) aoe mez over a 1 min CC any day of the week.

And as far as soloing 2+ content, I found it to be easy as a tank spec with Doc out (doc has the same freeze CC as mako and elara dorne, and probably all the other healer companions)

[Koalachan]

Btw, do Juggeranauts as Guardian mirror gets droid-only cc or only Sentinels/marauders get it?

No. No they do not. Only the Sentinels/marauders do. Basically, the OP is comparing different things, not mirrors.

[kenn9530]

you missed the point he said cc, as in 1 min remove from combat, not oh 2-3 seconds so i might not die.....

leaps, push, stasis and in 1.2 leaps will stun the target for a few secs is a form of cc, since you get all these utilities in forms of gap closers, etc its fine guardians/juggs dont get a 1 min cc, not every class can get everything but as tank spec soloing hc 2 mans should be more than possible but this is an mmo where its good to interact with other people now and then.

[Stormcall]

Isnt all this a bit unfair to JGs?

Every class isn't meant to have the same stuff. A sorc, commando, or operative can self heal, even in combat, an assassin, vanguard, or sniper cannot. This doesn't mean it's unfair to the assassin, vanguard, or sniper. Assassins can stealth, warriors cannot. Warriors can leap, assassins cannot. BH/Trooper has great high damage AoE in the form of DFA/Mortal Volley, assassins have Lacerate, which costs 40 force and hits like a wet noodle.

This is how MMO's work, not all classes are going to have access to the same tools.

[GeneticVigilance]

ok im not trying to be rude here, so if you take offense know it was unintended on my part

when maniac said cc he clearly meant a 1 min cc (aka concussive round/concussion missle) NOT 2-6s stuns (awe forgot about that) I understand guardians, i play one all the freaking time so i understand how we have lots of other crap to compensate this is not a "omg guardians are gimped qq for lack of cc omg"

im simply saying, and no one can disagree intelligently, that guardians do not have a 1 minute cc ability. (which has been covered already) i dont care if you consider a stun a cc, its NOT the same type the creator is talking about so anything related to that is unhelpful to him (if you dont answer his question) or completely irrelevant (given the same circumstance)

and yes i forgot about doc, he does have a carbonize, but tbh it doesnt really help much as focus bc you kill everything or die if you pull an extra pack, as a tank i dunno havent tanked yet [gearing up as dps atm, so if guild wants me to switch im gonna be frustrated lol]

[Koalachan]

ok im not trying to be rude here, so if you take offense know it was unintended on my part

when maniac said cc he clearly meant a 1 min cc (aka concussive round/concussion missle) NOT 2-6s stuns (awe forgot about that) I understand guardians, i play one all the freaking time so i understand how we have lots of other crap to compensate this is not a "omg guardians are gimped qq for lack of cc omg"

im simply saying, and no one can disagree intelligently, that guardians do not have a 1 minute cc ability. (which has been covered already) i dont care if you consider a stun a cc, its NOT the same type the creator is talking about so anything related to that is unhelpful to him (if you dont answer his question) or completely irrelevant (given the same circumstance)

and yes i forgot about doc, he does have a carbonize, but tbh it doesnt really help much as focus bc you kill everything or die if you pull an extra pack, as a tank i dunno havent tanked yet [gearing up as dps atm, so if guild wants me to switch im gonna be frustrated lol]

And I was saying that he was comparing the guardian to the marauder, saying the marauder has one so it is unfair for the guardian to not have one. While it is true mara has one and JG doesn't, they are not the mirrors and so do not have the same tools. The mirror of mara is sentinel which does have one, and the mirror of JG is jugg, which also does not have one. The 1 minute stun is an ability of the mara/sent AC, not the warrior/knight BC.

[Deleted]

Vanguard doesn't have a 1 min CC either. Not every class is supposed to be equal in absolutely every single situation. This isn't WoW.

[moff]

leveling a juggernaut right now, level 38 at the moment
heroic 2+ missions are quite easy with tank spec, you just need to gear up your healer, if he is in mostly recent blue gear, you'll be able to do them all
a cc for a companion would be ok I guess, but if its not the healer its useless anyway.
and a cc for the class would be overpowered

[Deleted]

I will take the instant, (free in 1.2) aoe mez over a 1 min CC any day of the week.

And as far as soloing 2+ content, I found it to be easy as a tank spec with Doc out (doc has the same freeze CC as mako and elara dorne, and probably all the other healer companions)

My Guardian has a full 124/126 rating (22 and 23 mods) tanking gear, and my Doc is pretty decently geared as well. Having soloed the Belsavis and Ilum 2+ heroics countless times now on different characters I can tell you that having a 60 second CC is like the difference between night and day.

The Belsavis 2+ heroic is relatively simple now, since I have the strategy down, and my Guardian's gear is well sufficient for it, but it still requires me to pop my survival abilities and med pacs every now and then. The Ilum 2+ heroic is murder if the first boss spawns with two adepts, since Guardian tanks deal absolutely no damage whatsoever, and competing with three healers is just a waste of time. So yeah, being able to CC the boss while I kill the adepts would make it ridiculously easy for the Guardian. Sure, the AoE stun is good, and necessary since Guardians don't have a long CC, but since we're talking about solo PvE (you don't use long CC's in PvP, and you don't need them as a tank in FP/raids), the long CC wins hands down.

Oh, and the first thing anyone who knows anything about healing companions does, is take the autocast off the damn useless 8 second carbon freeze CC. It would be nice IF it didn't make the companion useless for the eight seconds, but since the companion can't do anything else while he/she is using it, it's useless. Good luck soloing the daily 2+ heroics whilst using the carbon freeze. It's suicide.