Mafia Game discussion thread

[Riverness]

Well, I know one thing, I'll never play this game again.

Regarding the PM's:

If I was following the thread and then finally some stuff was happening, but I didn't know what was going on just because it was all going on via PM's, that would be frustrating. If there was a rule against it, and then some people would break it (steam, skype, etc.), well, it's their own decency. You can't help if the person is corrupt to the core. You can just have pity on his/her soul. You have to trust people (and they have to be honest) if you are to put a rule against the PM'ing.

I really don't mind since I'm not playing anymore, just my 2 cents about the matter.

Also the timezones were a huge problem for me, all the nights (edit: apart from the last one, we (wolves) kinda decided that we want to delay the night to a time that all of us are online) ended at 3 am (GMT+2)

If I am a scum and an investigator with enough votes on his/her townie group gets a positive investigation, boom headshot. If I had valuable information to share in favor/against the town, they all died with me because I didn't have the chance to speak for myself. It really irritated me not to be able to see the night end, this also is one of the reasons I decided not to play.

Anyway, I hope you guys ditch this closed-setup (sorry for my language here) bullshit, it added more stress in the game more than anything I guess..

I'm looking forward to follow the next game, trying to guess who is what without playing is more entertaining to me.
Try to have fun, everyone!

[Deleted]

1. If PMs get forbidden you might just name the next game "Mafia Scum 9, Town loses"
2. The closed setup sucked in my opinion and I did not have any fun last game
3. I will probably not play the future games, and definately not the next one

[Firebert]

Overexaggeration, why, and why?

[Krayzy]

Overexaggeration, why, and why?

For the reasons people have already stated?

You're just going around in circles now. We know you don't like PM's. We know why you think they are bad. We also know why a number of us like PM's and why we think they are good for the game. Guess what. Nobody is going to change each others mind on this.

[Firebert]

Yeah, but I can back up my reasons with evidence. See the 2of4 Mafia Scum article, PMing banned, high Vanilla Town Population, roughly 50% win rate for each faction.

I can't see evidence for the other side except scaremongering and genuine fear for the game, when I've shown that it can work. Onus is on the other side to provide evidence that PMing shouldn't be banned.

[Wass]

With all speelling my drunken self can muster, no I will not be playing next game.

[Loaf]

Yeah, but I can back up my reasons with evidence. See the 2of4 Mafia Scum article, PMing banned, high Vanilla Town Population, roughly 50% win rate for each faction.

I can't see evidence for the other side except scaremongering and genuine fear for the game, when I've shown that it can work. Onus is on the other side to provide evidence that PMing shouldn't be banned.

Fire, I know you want to try a banned-pm game. It's looking like that won't happen and all the arguing you do won't sway peoples' minds. They're not looking at statistics, they're looking at personal experience. This is the first game the town has won since game three and that's b/c it's also the first game since 3 that the town actually used the pm system and used it well. Also remember that this is Mmo-champion's forums, not Mafiascum.com or w/e it's called.

As for having a vt heavy setup, you've seen the lurking players do when they get vt. Now double or triple that and the game will be more boring. I'm not opposed to trying that and seeing how it will go, but I assure you, lurkers will lurk b/c of being a vt no matter how many townies are in play. I could make the next game 3 mafia against 20+ townies and the ones that will talk are the usual people that talk and the ones that lurk will be the ones that lurk. It's not b/c of the lack of townies, it's b/c vt is the most boring role there is and people don't usually care for it if they're dealt it. And this comes from my experience here on mmo-c. I don't care how other people on a different website play, I don't play there so I don't care for them, I only know how the people here play(minus newbies) and I don't think they're going to suddenly have a posting spree just b/c they feel like their role has suddenly become more important.

[Deleted]

With all speelling my drunken self can muster, no I will not be playing next game.

I hear you man, I played this aswell and i couldn't have said it better.

[Wass]

(looking at worgen's last post)

Being a VT is total crap in most people's eyes. Yet I still have been that role many times and fulfilled my duty as it. As a VT you can be reckless in your gameplay. If you die, then you do. But it's no major loss to the town. You can claim and attack and crusade at free will since you don't have much to lose.

I think it's sad when people get VT and feel like they're crap. Man up people. Stop being pansies.

[Loaf]

(looking at worgen's last post)

Being a VT is total crap in most people's eyes. Yet I still have been that role many times and fulfilled my duty as it. As a VT you can be reckless in your gameplay. If you die, then you do. But it's no major loss to the town. You can claim and attack and crusade at free will since you don't have much to lose.

I think it's sad when people get VT and feel like they're crap. Man up people. Stop being pansies.

Oh, I know Wass, I try when I got vt in the past as well, but you and I aren't everyone else unfortunately :\

[Kuthe]

1. It was alright, but personally I prefer setups where we atleast know the numbers of the roles. There could have been 1 -3 cops and we didn't know it, if we knew how many power roles, that would make it a little funner, in my own eyes.

2. Okay, I raged, I ranted about PMs, but they need to be there. I just hated how after 3 days? There was no more discussion in the thread, everything was done via PM's through the town, that's what made me annoyed. Did the town power roles all just decide to PM EverythingNice claiming the power, and what they have been doing over the nights, is that how it worked? EN sent a message to Asher, saying either vote with her, or you will be voted off because she controlled 6 votes *At that time*. That type of thing was stupid. They declared us evil by how we voted, I could make logical smart threads, but in my first game here, so it would be 'oh no, so many threads, kill kill kill!'

3. I have people that do this, only happened once in here, but in the mafia game in SC2 and WC3, everyone is a power role, and if you don't get one you like, you leave, and it DRIVES ME MAD! I play that game so much, and 70% of the time, they are ruined by the Doc/Cop leaving and ruining it.

4. *Waves fist* Although, it's good to see what happens, I was actually thinking on the first night I wonder what would happen if you got banned, I now know.

I'm keen for another game, this time I won't be high off anti-bio-tics and painkillers, and I'll be in a better mindset.

I know I take this game seriously at some points, and I go a little crazy, but I'm sorry, and I do have fun, but I understand that I ruin it for others at times.
D:

---------- Post added 2012-04-08 at 10:44 AM ----------

(looking at worgen's last post)

Being a VT is total crap in most people's eyes. Yet I still have been that role many times and fulfilled my duty as it. As a VT you can be reckless in your gameplay. If you die, then you do. But it's no major loss to the town. You can claim and attack and crusade at free will since you don't have much to lose.

I think it's sad when people get VT and feel like they're crap. Man up people. Stop being pansies.

^
This.

Going crazy and aiding the town by drawing out scum is good, being quiet and getting lynched is bad.

---------- Post added 2012-04-08 at 10:45 AM ----------

(looking at worgen's last post)

Being a VT is total crap in most people's eyes. Yet I still have been that role many times and fulfilled my duty as it. As a VT you can be reckless in your gameplay. If you die, then you do. But it's no major loss to the town. You can claim and attack and crusade at free will since you don't have much to lose.

I think it's sad when people get VT and feel like they're crap. Man up people. Stop being pansies.

^
This.

Going crazy and aiding the town by drawing out scum is good, being quiet and getting lynched is bad.

[Firebert]

Fire, I know you want to try a banned-pm game. It's looking like that won't happen and all the arguing you do won't sway peoples' minds. They're not looking at statistics, they're looking at personal experience. This is the first game the town has won since game three and that's b/c it's also the first game since 3 that the town actually used the pm system and used it well.

As for having a vt heavy setup, you've seen the lurking players do when they get vt. Now double or triple that and the game will be more boring. I'm not opposed to trying that and seeing how it will go, but I assure you, lurkers will lurk b/c of being a vt no matter how many townies are in play. I could make the next game 3 mafia against 20+ townies and the ones that will talk are the usual people that talk and the ones that lurk will be the ones that lurk. It's not b/c of the lack of townies, it's b/c vt is the most boring role there is and people don't usually care for it if they're dealt it. And this comes from my experience here on mmo-c. I only know how the people here play(minus newbies) and I don't think they're going to suddenly have a posting spree just b/c they feel like their role has suddenly become more important.

Well, thanks for supporting my point at least. No evidence, just the reasoning that their experience of nine games outweighs twelve-hundred others, fear of perma-scum wins, and assumptions with no foundations. As you're a mod, it's up to you to take the leap or not. You know exactly where I stand and I've also made clear how soft the ground is that other people are trying to stand on.

And games with no Vanilla Townies are going to be incredibly difficult to balance. I agree that people will play how they usually play, but if the majority of players are VTs then people won't be put off that they got VT instead of one of two or three power roles. Like I said before, starting a game and instantly alienating 10%+ of the people playing because they got VT isn't going to be the best solution to people quitting because they got VT.

Changing the composition of games won't change people's posting patterns. The game is about trying to find people's tells for which faction they are a part of. I even said that if Nemi plays next game then she should continue to fluff and just tone it down a bit if some work is needed to find scum. What you can do is encourage people to keep playing even if they get a "bad" or "boring" role and boosting VT population percentage does just that. Admittedly banning PMs goes against this, but you can see I'm arguing for it from a balance perspective, not an audience retention perspective. >_>

It's up to you. You wanted my feedback.

---------- Post added 2012-04-08 at 01:50 AM ----------

*I just hated how after 3 days? There was no more discussion in the thread, everything was done via PM's through the town, that's what made me annoyed.
*[VTs] Going crazy and aiding the town by drawing out scum is good, being quiet and getting lynched is bad.

Both of these. If the VTs one-for-one the scum then the Town should cruise to a very easy victory.

[Krayzy]

You guys keep assuming way too much. There really wasn't that much PM'ing going on. It's just that after I laid everything out on the table in the thread there was no incentive for the town to post after that. Everyone pretty much knew the only ones that would bother posting would be those trying to defend themselves against what I was saying. Had some of you not come out so strong in defense the town would have had a harder time figuring out who was on what scum team.

As for the VT role. I've been a VT in 3 of my 5 games on here. I died too early in 2 of those for me to do much, but I did have a lot of fun in the other game. Like Wass said, you can take a lot more risks as a VT because you know your death isn't a make it or break it type of situation.

[Rixis]

oh, by the way

"i control 6 votes, vote with me or get lynched" .. that could so easily have been a lie/intimidation

and fire, people don't have to explain themselves at all, this has caused you problems within the game as well as in this thread, if they want/don't want PMs, like/don't like the closed set up, it's up to them, they don't have to explain their reasoning on liking/disliking something, and i don't know why you constantly keep pushing and pushing for explanations on everything

[Nightfury Treann]

and fire, people don't have to explain themselves at all, this has caused you problems within the game as well as in this thread, if they want/don't want PMs, like/don't like the closed set up, it's up to them, they don't have to explain their reasoning on liking/disliking something, and i don't know why you constantly keep pushing and pushing for explanations on everything

very much this.

you know, when i get some theories of who's evil and who's not, i type like 2-10 lines. what i saw on the last game was a full story, seriously, there was an entire page full of..... huuhh?

also Fire, this may sound unconformable but you're asking WAY too much to the people when they do something and it's like "why you voting for X" "why not Y" "explain yourself now or i'll vote you"

and also, when you are seeing Lurkers, go for them fast, instead of waiting for them to post here and making an opinion or vote and what i saw is like

"yea, keep lurking fucker" or "quick, jump to the bandwagon so you can lurk more"

i know that this is not what you guys say but this is how it feels, really.

i died on the last game for lurking, i know that. Meys hates me

[Riverness]

i died on the last game for lurking, i know that. Meys hates me

Is there a person who hates you on this world?

And you think that's me?!!??!

YOU WERE MY BROTHEEEEEEEEEEER

[Wass]

Meys, i am disappoint. HOW CAN YOU HATE DRAGONBRO? WHY?!?!?

---------- Post added 2012-04-08 at 09:53 AM ----------

Also, Phillipisawarlock should be banned from these games. But he probably won't bother coming back anyway so that's good.

[Riverness]

Meys, i am disappoint. HOW CAN YOU HATE DRAGONBRO? WHY?!?!?

I dooooooooon't

Also, Phillipisawarlock should be banned from these games. But he probably won't bother coming back anyway so that's good.

You already said that a few pages ago

[Firebert]

and fire, people don't have to explain themselves at all, this has caused you problems within the game as well as in this thread, if they want/don't want PMs, like/don't like the closed set up, it's up to them, they don't have to explain their reasoning on liking/disliking something, and i don't know why you constantly keep pushing and pushing for explanations on everything

Because I'm trying to understand why people do things and having no reason isn't really good enough, as it'd be easier to not do anything than do something for no reason.

---------- Post added 2012-04-08 at 09:16 AM ----------

you know, when i get some theories of who's evil and who's not, i type like 2-10 lines. what i saw on the last game was a full story, seriously, there was an entire page full of..... huuhh?

also Fire, this may sound unconformable but you're asking WAY too much to the people when they do something and it's like "why you voting for X" "why not Y" "explain yourself now or i'll vote you"

and also, when you are seeing Lurkers, go for them fast, instead of waiting for them to post here and making an opinion or vote and what i saw is like

"yea, keep lurking fucker" or "quick, jump to the bandwagon so you can lurk more"

i know that this is not what you guys say but this is how it feels, really.

I just like explaining my reasoning in full. People don't like reading my walls (see the game before last), I understand that, but that's the way I post.

See above for my explanation of holding people accountable. And Lynch All Lurkers. I think I explained already that deliberately lurking deprives the town of information that you have and on you and is therefore inherently anti-Town. Most votes on lurkers are pressure votes to get people to post unless time is short.

People jumping onto a bandwagon with no reasoning looks REALLY bad, both for their image as a Town player and for people re-reading through the thread. Unfortunately with PMing allowed it's kind of promoted as, as was clearly shown last game, people will just vote for you with no discernable reason and you won't be able to extract that reason from anyone.

I'm sorry if I seem aggressive about it in-game. Coming into a game with a large proportion of seemingly "lurking" players in the thread doesn't make for a good game.

[Rixis]

the problem is as thus

you demand of people their reasoning and don't like it when they don't provide it, and thus you seem to assume they have no reasoning when they may just desire not to share it, and even if they do have no reasoning, it's their prerogative

also, constantly asking for peoples reasoning looks scummy to me, you want their reasoning so you can counter argue it, and if they provide none, you can't defend yourself

people play the game they want, but you seem to take it too seriously when people won't play it the way you want

i think lysah said it well in the dead thread, about krayzy, because he kept saying things when he didn't have to, he was putting people/roles/the town at risk


(i'm not trying to attack you, i'm just trying to say if people don't wanna give you (or anyone) their reasoning .. tough shit )