How is the Alliance losing so much?

[Charo]

Lol still, you would think if they could make a space ship that they would be like God to most races on Azeroth.

It is Naaru technology though

[Vacuous0]

It's funny, people (fanboys) like to claim Horde wins because they're bigger and stronger, yet when the Horde first invaded, it didn't matter. A raging army of naked berserkers is nothing in the face of heavy cavalry and that's what lost them the first war. The Horde had attacked peaceful human towns and were expecting similarly weak resistance from Stormwind. Oh they shock when they ran into a line of shields and heavy armor while being flanked by knights on horseback. Not to mention heroes like Sir Lothar and others, big men capable of cutting through Horde infantry like paper. Believe me, we have our advantages too.

That said, you can't win em all. This is the way the story is headed for now, so that's just how it goes.

Funny, this is all very ironic at the moment. Despite the story, I'll score win after win doing AV weekend and random BGs as well on my Alliance characters. Then I jump onto my BE paladin for some healing and what do I get? 0-6 in AV...1-5 in random BGs...

EDIT: Not the first war in its entirety, the first major invasion of SW.

[mordecay]

Lol... the numbers are non-canon.

[ijffdrie]

yeah well, if it was more real.... what can a gnome do against a tauren/orc

Shoot a gun. Shoot a laser. Shoot an ice cannon. Shoot a steam cannon grenade. Drop bombs from high above. Throw a fireball. Throw an iceball. Throw a magicball. Throw a forcecage. Throw poison. Throw venom. Throw acid. Throw radiation.

In the warcraft battles, theres a lot more going on than just physical strength. The gnomes have a massive technological advantage, maybe even bigger than the goblins.


Let's make a little list.

Numbers:
High: Stormwind humans, ironforge dwarves, night elves
Medium: Forsaken, wildhammer dwarves, blood elves, kul tirasian humans
Low: Frostwolf orcs, bleeding hollow orcs, warsong orcs, gilnean humans, theramore humans, bilgewater goblins, dragonmaw orcs, dark iron dwarves, high elves,
Extincterrific: tauren, gnomes, darkspear trolls, magnataur, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres, mok'nathal, revantusk trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, boulderslide, burning blade orcs, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, stromgarde humans, highborne elves, draenei, broken, sons of lothar, bloodfang worgen, scarlet renegades, stillpine furbolg

Technology (including alchemy):
High: forsaken, bilgewater goblins, gnomes
Medium: ironforge dwarves, warsong orcs, draenei, gilnean humans, dark iron dwarves, darkspear trolls, broken
Low: stormwind humans, blood elves, kul tirasian humans, frostwolf orcs, bleeding hollow orcs, theramore humans, high elves, tauren, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, stromgarde humans, sons of lothar, scarlet renegades
Stickerrific: night elves, wildhammer dwarves, dragonmaw orcs, magnataur, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres, mok'nathal, revantusk trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, boulderslide, burning blade orcs, highborne elves, bloodfang worgen, stillpine furbolg

Magic (both divine and arcane)
High: forsaken, blood elves, high elves, night elves, draenei, highborne elves
Medium: wildhammer dwarves, dark iron dwarves, darkspear trolls, broken, stormwind humans, kul tirasian humans, frostwolf orcs, theramore humans, tauren, sons of lothar, scarlet renegades, revantusk trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, burning blade orcs, stillpine furbolg
Low: bilgewater goblins, gnomes, gilnean humans, bleeding hollow orcs, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, stromgarde humans, dragonmaw orcs, mok'nathal
Mundane-tastic: ironforge dwarves, warsong orcs, magnataur, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres, boulderslide, bloodfang worgen

Military tactics
High: forsaken, blood elves, high elves, stormwind humans, kul tirasian humans, theramore humans, sons of lothar, stromgarde humans
Medium: night elves, wildhammer dwarves, highborne elves, dark iron dwarves, frostwolf orcs, tauren, bilgewater goblins, gnomes, gilnean humans, bleeding hollow orcs, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, ironforge dwarves, warsong orcs
Low: draenei, darkspear trolls, broken, scarlet renegades, revantusk trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, burning blade orcs, stillpine furbolg, dragonmaw orcs, mok'nathal
Chargerrific: magnataur, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres, boulderslide, bloodfang worgen

Mundane combat strength (both melee and with bow&arrow)
&^%$ yeah!: magnataur, dragonmaw orcs
High: night elves, tauren, warsong orcs, draenei, darkspear trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, burning blade orcs, stillpine furbolg, mok'nathal, bloodfang worgen, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres
Medium: blood elves, high elves, stormwind humans, sons of lothar, stromgarde humans, wildhammer dwarves, frostwolf orcs, bleeding hollow orcs, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, ironforge dwarves, scarlet renegades, revantusk trolls, gilnean humans
Low: Forsaken, highborne elves, dark iron dwarves, kul tirasian humans, theramore humans, broken
punt-tastic: bilgewater goblins, gnomes, boulderslide

So yeah, the horde has much stronger troops and good high-end technology, but thats really about all it has. When it actually comes to amassing armies, the alliance has a distinct advantage.

[Frontenac]

You don't need the RPG books to know that the Alliance greatly outnumbers the Horde.

Alliance:
Humans : Well established cities. Control over vast territories. Have met some losses during the wars, but add them up and it is probably the most numerous race on Azeroth. Stormwind (most numerous), Kul Tiras, Theramore, Stromgarde.
Dwarves : Ironforge, now ruled by a council, is the capital of all dwarvish nations: Ironforge, Wildhammers, Dark Irons (the ones who fled the TH and Ragnaros). Control over Khaz Modan, parts of Hinterlands. Untouched by the Scourge. One of the most numerous races, without a doubt.
Night Elves: They had a lot of losses and their numbers are dwindling. But they still control much of their ancestral land in Northern Kalimdor. Like I said, less inhabitants, but still great numbers.
Gnomes, Draenei, Worgen: All these races are exiles. Of the three, the most numerous must be the Gnomes. The two others needed ships to go away from their land, while the Gnomes only had to walk. So it is possible that a lot more survivors remained.

Horde:
Orcs: Remnants of the remnants of an invasion army. That invasion army was destroyed by the Alliance, and the remnants was put in a few internement camps with a few roving bands of orcs hiding from the Alliance. They managed to get on Kalimdor on a few human ships. Their number shrinked even more during the Third War. The orcs are probably a fraction of the numbers they were when they crossed the Dark portal, even if we count the 20 years they had for natural increase of their population.
Trolls: Exiled from Stranglethorn Vale, they escaped the Sea Witch Island on board the few human ships the Orcs have stolen. They had losses during the 3rd War, then settled on the Echo Isles. They lost the control of the Isles to Zalazane and lost even more people to him. We can safely say that they were on the brink of extinction.
Tauren: Almost destroyed by the Centaurs, they reached Mulgore with the help of Thrall. There, Cairne unified the different tribes. Again, Tauren do not have great numbers.
Undead: The Forsaken are only a fraction of the population of Lordaeron that got enslaved by the Lich King. Each death was not replaced, since they can't reproduce. However, since the Valkyrs' arrival, their numbers are growing again. Still, they can't be that numerous since only 4 valkyrs remain to raise new undead.
Blood Elves: Again, a remnant of what was the Quel'dorei people.
Goblins: Those are only the few survivors that managed to escape on Gallywix's boat. Goblins breed like rabbits though. However, they die just as fast in a flash of fire...

So it is most certain that the Alliance outnumbers greatly the Horde. With numbers come the land, with land, the ressources. The Horde races are just beginning to settle on their conquered/reconquered lands. Durotar, Mulgore and Undercity (at least controlled by Sylvanas) are only 10 years old. The Blood Elves are only beginning to rebuild their capital. The Horde races still are short on ressources. Their force is that they are more ready for combat than the Alliance races. They can strike fast and win some lands. But if the war lingers, the Alliance will have the upper hand.

[Norgannon the Dreamweaver]

Shoot a gun. Shoot a laser. Shoot an ice cannon. Shoot a steam cannon grenade. Drop bombs from high above. Throw a fireball. Throw an iceball. Throw a magicball. Throw a forcecage. Throw poison. Throw venom. Throw acid. Throw radiation.

In the warcraft battles, theres a lot more going on than just physical strength. The gnomes have a massive technological advantage, maybe even bigger than the goblins.


Let's make a little list.

Numbers:
High: Stormwind humans, ironforge dwarves, night elves
Medium: Forsaken, wildhammer dwarves, blood elves, kul tirasian humans
Low: Frostwolf orcs, bleeding hollow orcs, warsong orcs, gilnean humans, theramore humans, bilgewater goblins, dragonmaw orcs, dark iron dwarves, high elves,
Extincterrific: tauren, gnomes, darkspear trolls, magnataur, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres, mok'nathal, revantusk trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, boulderslide, burning blade orcs, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, stromgarde humans, highborne elves, draenei, broken, sons of lothar, bloodfang worgen, scarlet renegades, stillpine furbolg

Technology (including alchemy):
High: forsaken, bilgewater goblins, gnomes
Medium: ironforge dwarves, warsong orcs, draenei, gilnean humans, dark iron dwarves, darkspear trolls, broken
Low: stormwind humans, blood elves, kul tirasian humans, frostwolf orcs, bleeding hollow orcs, theramore humans, high elves, tauren, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, stromgarde humans, sons of lothar, scarlet renegades
Stickerrific: night elves, wildhammer dwarves, dragonmaw orcs, magnataur, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres, mok'nathal, revantusk trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, boulderslide, burning blade orcs, highborne elves, bloodfang worgen, stillpine furbolg

Magic (both divine and arcane)
High: forsaken, blood elves, high elves, night elves, wildhammer dwarves, highborne elves
Medium: draenei, dark iron dwarves, darkspear trolls, broken, stormwind humans, kul tirasian humans, frostwolf orcs, theramore humans, tauren, sons of lothar, scarlet renegades, revantusk trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, burning blade orcs, stillpine furbolg
Low: bilgewater goblins, gnomes, gilnean humans, bleeding hollow orcs, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, stromgarde humans, dragonmaw orcs, mok'nathal
Mundane-tastic: ironforge dwarves, warsong orcs, magnataur, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres, boulderslide, bloodfang worgen

Military tactics
High: forsaken, blood elves, high elves, stormwind humans, kul tirasian humans, theramore humans, sons of lothar, stromgarde humans
Medium: night elves, wildhammer dwarves, highborne elves, dark iron dwarves, frostwolf orcs, tauren, bilgewater goblins, gnomes, gilnean humans, bleeding hollow orcs, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, ironforge dwarves, warsong orcs
Low: draenei, darkspear trolls, broken, scarlet renegades, revantusk trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, burning blade orcs, stillpine furbolg, dragonmaw orcs, mok'nathal
Chargerrific: magnataur, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres, boulderslide, bloodfang worgen

Mundane combat strength (both melee and with bow&arrow)
&^%$ yeah!: magnataur, dragonmaw orcs
High: night elves, tauren, warsong orcs, draenei, darkspear trolls, shatterspear trolls, taunka, burning blade orcs, stillpine furbolg, mok'nathal, bloodfang worgen, stonemaul ogres, dreadmaul ogres, dunemaul ogres
Medium: blood elves, high elves, stormwind humans, sons of lothar, stromgarde humans, wildhammer dwarves, frostwolf orcs, bleeding hollow orcs, rageroar orcs, shadowmoon orcs, ironforge dwarves, scarlet renegades, revantusk trolls, gilnean humans
Low: Forsaken, highborne elves, dark iron dwarves, kul tirasian humans, theramore humans, broken
punt-tastic: bilgewater goblins, gnomes, boulderslide

So yeah, the horde has much stronger troops and good high-end technology, but thats really about all it has. When it actually comes to amassing armies, the alliance has a distinct advantage.

Why must everybody get so many facts wrong like this. -_-

[timtim89]

This war between the Horde and Alliance. The Horde has a population of about 30k all together, excluding the Blood elves.
The population of Stormwind its self is 200,000, Iron Forge has a population of about 20,00, Darnassus is at 13k. So how is the Alliance losing so much land?
I know not everyone in going to enlist in the military but I mean you'd think that in time of war, the Alliance would have more troops. Plus the Alliance has better technology than the Horde. 233k vs. roughly 30k.

The biggest armies dont always win take the Revolutionary War, We where little compared to the British but we whooped that ass.

[Deathgoose]

...tactical...genius? Hold on, I need to stop laughing before I can continue typing.

Okay, done. We're talking about the same person who built his first base in Northrend on a goddamn Nerubian hive, and then told Saurfang that he'd fix their lack of supply lines by just attacked the Alliance and taking theirs. We're talking about the same guy who puts so many idiots in command that half the Horde's zones involve fixing their mistake. Can you give any example of him being a 'tactical genius'?

To be fair, it wasn't that guy that said it, it was fucking Knaak.

And if Knaak targets you in his literary sights like the god damn eye of sauron, you will suddenly become the biggest, baddest ass manly man that ever was, so much that all of the chicks will want to have your babies and the guys will sob into their beers because they aren't as cool as you.

That is what happens when you've become Knaak-ified

[Norgannon the Dreamweaver]

To be fair, it wasn't that guy that said it, it was fucking Knaak.

And if Knaak targets you in his literary sights like the god damn eye of sauron, you will suddenly become the biggest, baddest ass manly man that ever was, so much that all of the chicks will want to have your babies and the guys will sob into their beers because they aren't as cool as you.

That is what happens when you've become Knaak-ified

The only reason why Knaak writes for WoW is because Metzen is a Knaak fanboiiii..

[Guyviroth]

Saurfang Cleave and Garrosh Whirlwind destroys alliance armies.

[McNeil]

How the Alliance is losing so much? I could say why but then I would be starting a flamefest. So lets avoid it.

[eronen]

How the Alliance is losing so much? I could say why but then I would be starting a flamefest. So lets avoid it.

That was the most constructive and useful comment I've ever seen ever.

Anyway, The alliance get to kill our main leader when the final patch of MoP comes out. What more do you guys want? do you want us to dress in bunny onesies and dance the macerana for you? Also, there is no faction favoritism, blizzard is doing their best to keep it both even which is probably why you guys are making a giant comeback in MoP. (After we destroy theramore lololololol)

[badmodem]

Apparently, Garrosh alone will be powerful enough to fight off a raid of 10 - 25 players plus major NPCs at the end of Mists so I'd say there are others just as powerful lo.

[McNeil]

That was the most constructive and useful comment I've ever seen ever.)

Not sure if serious or sarcasm

[ijffdrie]

Why must everybody get so many facts wrong like this. -_-

Please, point them out. I'd love to learn something.

[ijffdrie]

But the books are about as canon as it gets... more than the game even I'd say?

So in the official 'most canon' of lore Garrosh is considered all the things Knaak wrote about him.

So, your signature is sarcastic, then?

You know, I love Christie Golden's writings, but even she hasn't really managed to elevate the world of warcraft books. I did like lord of the clans (warcraft imprint) though. For that matter, all of the old warcraft imprint was pretty decent. Even Metzen and Knaak's books worked well with continuity.

[MoanaLisa]

Regarding this subject generally and more specifically as a storyline, go read any good history of WWII. The first few years went all one way, the last 20 months, all another.

You don't think Germany wasn't outnumbered by it's enemies? How did Germany get most of Western Europe and within sight of Moscow?

The parallels aren't exact but it's close enough for story-telling purposes and has the advantage of being true.

[Aquamonkey]

Regarding this subject generally and more specifically as a storyline, go read any good history of WWII. The first few years went all one way, the last 20 months, all another.

You don't think Germany wasn't outnumbered by it's enemies? How did Germany get most of Western Europe and within sight of Moscow?

The parallels aren't exact but it's close enough for story-telling purposes and has the advantage of being true.

Superior tactics and technology.

[ijffdrie]

Regarding this subject generally and more specifically as a storyline, go read any good history of WWII. The first few years went all one way, the last 20 months, all another.

You don't think Germany wasn't outnumbered by it's enemies? How did Germany get most of Western Europe and within sight of Moscow?

The parallels aren't exact but it's close enough for story-telling purposes and has the advantage of being true.

Being on the offensive all of the time. Remember, originally germany sided with Russia, meaning they weren't outnumbered. They also had land-based access to most of the areas they conquered and a strong industry. The horde does not have strong allies, land-based access to the enemy or a strong industry.

[Combatbutler]

The horde does not have strong allies, land-based access to the enemy or a strong industry.

Neither has the Alliance, both sides are still in pretty bad shape, since they still carry the scars of the third war, the Night elves and Humans in particular. And the territories, which were left unscatched were hit hard by the Cataclysm.