[MoP] Symbiosis

[Deleted]

The amount of tears in this thread are delicious. Seriously, if you're sitting behind your computer right now and can't see the potentials of this ability (both as the druid and the receiver) and aren't able to think outside the box, then you're one of those people who will come and cry on the forums as soon as it goes live because you don't understand how to use it. Symbiosis is a perfect example of an ability that raises the skillcap of a class to the point where smart and good players will benefit and half-brain bad players will end up dead.

[Clawtrocity]

I'll take Leap of Faith over a shitty version of divine hymn any day for a spell like Symbiosis.

They aren't going to give us anything that increases DPS or HPS more than a few fractions of a percent. They don't want us to HAVE to have a paladin in the group or HAVE to have a warrior to trade off with as a boomkin. We've already discussed that if enough people see a certain ability is doing good damage then they won't trade with anyone else and they'll be balanced around having that ability. I.E. Dark Intent.

[Mendan]

So, does anyone else see a problem with tanking druids getting lightning shield? Not that's it's op or anything, but it's going to be constantly overwritten by earth shield if you're being healed by a resto shaman. I guess in that case you just choose another class?

[greatmefisto]

The amount of tears in this thread are delicious. Seriously, if you're sitting behind your computer right now and can't see the potentials of this ability (both as the druid and the receiver) and aren't able to think outside the box, then you're one of those people who will come and cry on the forums as soon as it goes live because you don't understand how to use it. Symbiosis is a perfect example of an ability that raises the skillcap of a class to the point where smart and good players will benefit and half-brain bad players will end up dead.

I see both potentials and problems coming with this spell. Problems hard to fix because class that uses x ability was never designed to have one. That's why in my opinion it shouldn't be implemented.

[Deleted]

So, does anyone else see a problem with tanking druids getting lightning shield? Not that's it's op or anything, but it's going to be constantly overwritten by earth shield if you're being healed by a resto shaman. I guess in that case you just choose another class?

I heard not all shamans are resto. I'm sure there's plenty of arena/10man group compositions without resto shamans, and in 10mans even if you have one, the resto shaman can always earth shield the other tank.

[Deleted]

But on the flip side, a frost mage in PVP with a heal? yikes!

i really do hope with all my ....errrr hope ! that you did notice the 2.5s cast time for the heal mages get , if any frost mage manages to EVER finish casting a 2.5 sec spell in pvp conditions, well....chance are he won't actually NEED to cast a heal , as he'd probably be at full hp due to the lack of "pvp -ness " of his enemies >.>

on the OTHER flipside , mages get flat out nothing from this , yet boomkins get the steal the ONLY uniq,e symbiosys mirrors, will get a copy of the MAGE , not HIMSELF


what ? well i ...i NEVER , i refuse to serve a chicken !!!! O_O

[greatmefisto]

greatmefisto:
You don't lose anything. We don't steal something. You gain something. Is it that hard? And btw...Prowl in PvP is boss and the most spells coming in MoP are for PvP.

K Resto Shaman will chain heal his target to death from behind after breaking Prowl. Very powerful indeed.

[Cowt]

i really do hope with all my ....errrr hope ! that you did notice the 2.5s cast time for the heal mages get , if any frost mage manages to EVER finish casting a 2.5 sec spell in pvp conditions, well....chance are he won't actually NEED to cast a heal , as he'd probably be at full hp due to the lack of "pvp -ness " of his enemies >.>

Tried playing a Moonkin in PvP? Starfire, our main nuke, has a base-cast time of 3.2 seconds. 2.7 seconds when fully spec'd.

It's a joy. We can't cast it.

on the OTHER flipside , mages get flat out nothing from this , yet boomkins get the steal the ONLY uniq,e symbiosys mirrors, will get a copy of the MAGE , not HIMSELF

From what I could make out of this, is that you're saying the Mirror Images that appear when a Moonkin uses their Symbiosis Mirror Image, look like the Mage and not the Druid?

Is there a confirmation of this?

[Thorim]

Not sure I've ever seen the need for Leap of Faith to be used actually in a fight the entier expac, other than pulling retard tanks into the bloods on Spine LFR. Oh wait, Heroic Nef pulling people back onto the platform when you need to jump off with the debuf......thats the only one. I'll be putting it on the Shammy then for SWG.

If you aren't raiding with idiots they can move out of the shit themselves surely?

[Elunedra]

Not sure I've ever seen the need for Leap of Faith to be used actually in a fight the entier expac, other than pulling retard tanks into the bloods on Spine LFR. Oh wait, Heroic Nef pulling people back onto the platform when you need to jump off with the debuf......thats the only one. I'll be putting it on the Shammy then for SWG.

If you aren't raiding with idiots they can move out of the shit themselves surely?

iv seen it beeying used ot pull ppl out of the lava on the worms near raggy, and to pull ppl out of the shit after they have dcéd, but ofcourse it int awsome its just osmething extra but there other abilitys to choose, like ice block so if you have a takn soak 1 major hit you cna stay whit him and block tru it

[Deleted]

Tried playing a Moonkin in PvP? Starfire, our main nuke, has a base-cast time of 3.2 seconds. 2.7 seconds when fully spec'd.

It's a joy. We can't cast it.



From what I could make out of this, is that you're saying the Mirror Images that appear when a Moonkin uses their Symbiosis Mirror Image, look like the Mage and not the Druid?

Is there a confirmation of this?

i have a nasty feeling it will be like that , no confirmation yet ofc

in regard with boomkin pvp, be honest , it's all about spamfire in pvp :P and as the cast time of starfire ....well any respectable pvpkin goes full out haste , bringing it around 2.2-3 , still i agree it's a long cast , but ...back to spamfire , and you can still get a few starfire's cast via nature's gift


but yeah , back to spamfire , that's all moonkins do in pvp :P


as for the mirror image thing , i remember reading the tooltip for it on wowdb , and the wording sounded like it'd create copies of the mage , not the boomkin, can't remember the exact wording let me find the exact spell and i'll link it here

[Deleted]

i have a nasty feeling it will be like that , no confirmation yet ofc

in regard with boomkin pvp, be honest , it's all about spamfire in pvp :P and as the cast time of starfire ....well any respectable pvpkin goes full out haste , bringing it around 2.2-3 , still i agree it's a long cast , but ...back to spamfire , and you can still get a few starfire's cast via nature's gift


but yeah , back to spamfire , that's all moonkins do in pvp :P

Yeah, and it's working out really great for them, isn't it? Real masters of the arena those moonkins!

[ceelion]

So, what are people thoughts on the (current) Symbiosis options for kitty?

Personally I like the thought of Spirit Wolves (although spirit cats might feel more fitting) would be sweet, but it'd be hard to convince an Enh shammy to give up one of their dps cooldowns for a "meh" interrupt.

I also like Shattering Blow from Warriors, with TF, Berserk and your selected level 60 talent, sounds like kitty's could provide a lot of burst. The problem being of course we take a dps cooldown and give them a utility cooldown.

Seems like the "best" and easiest in terms of convincing them to switch, seems to be Frost DKs. Give them more AoE dps for a RP dump they don't use often (unless they do in MoP now)

[Deleted]

Yeah, and it's working out really great for them, isn't it? Real masters of the arena those moonkins!

errrrr...top rated 5's all have moonkins >.>

[Sunfyre]

i really do hope with all my ....errrr hope ! that you did notice the 2.5s cast time for the heal mages get , if any frost mage manages to EVER finish casting a 2.5 sec spell in pvp conditions, well....chance are he won't actually NEED to cast a heal , as he'd probably be at full hp due to the lack of "pvp -ness " of his enemies >.>

on the OTHER flipside , mages get flat out nothing from this , yet boomkins get the steal the ONLY uniq,e symbiosys mirrors, will get a copy of the MAGE , not HIMSELF


what ? well i ...i NEVER , i refuse to serve a chicken !!!! O_O

You know they introduced a really neat mechanic called haste which reduces the cast time of healing touch.

The mirror images are of the balance Druid. Take a Xanax.

[Deleted]

So, what are people thoughts on the (current) Symbiosis options for kitty?

Personally I like the thought of Spirit Wolves (although spirit cats might feel more fitting) would be sweet, but it'd be hard to convince an Enh shammy to give up one of their dps cooldowns for a "meh" interrupt.

I also like Shattering Blow from Warriors, with TF, Berserk and your selected level 60 talent, sounds like kitty's could provide a lot of burst. The problem being of course we take a dps cooldown and give them a utility cooldown.

Seems like the "best" and easiest in terms of convincing them to switch, seems to be Frost DKs. Give them more AoE dps for a RP dump they don't use often (unless they do in MoP now)

Spirit wolves do nearly no damage.. they hit for around 30-50, and many of their attacks are miss/dodge/glance.

[Deleted]

To Clarify for people who have not read up: It CANNOT be cast in combat, so no give to player A for P1, player b for P2 to get the best out of it the whole fight. The reciever of symbiosis DOES NOT LOSE that ability, the Druid gains that ability and the reciever of symbiosis GAINS an additional spell.

Balance
Death Knight - Anti-Magic Shell PvP and PvE gain (Survival CD allowing you to take a hit of something, or to act as a soaker)
Hunter - Misdirection May have PvE uses
Mage - Mirror Image Clear PvP and PvE gain
Monk - to be announced
Paladin - Hammer of Justice PvP and PvE gain (Ragnaros Son's of Flame style boost)
Priest - Mass Dispel PvP and PvE gain(worst case scenario, No priest healer in roster of dead for mass dispels)
Rogue - Cloak of Shadows PvP and PvE gain (survival gd to act as soaker or to wipe any DoT debuffs
Shaman - Purge PvP gain
Warlock - Unending Resolve PvP and PvE gain (Survival CD allowing you to take a hit of something, or to act as a soaker)
Warrior - Intervene Unsure why balance would want to take damage in PvE, PvP could prevent a melee hit killing team mate allowing heal to be cast

Feral
Death Knight - Death Coil PvE and PvP gains, since its a ranged attack
Hunter - Play Dead PvP may gain more since its a de-target causing spell to cancel
Mage - Frost Nova PvP may gain more since it prevents a melee chasing us, or stops someone running
Monk - to be announced
Paladin - Divine Shield Acts as SI so will have same use
Priest - Dispersion Super SI for the big hits (Impales/Explosions/Soaking etc)
Rogue - Redirect PvP and PvE gain
Shaman - Feral Spirit gain's but very minimal due to the damage
Warlock - Soul Swap PvP and PvE gains
Warrior - Shattering Blow PvP and PvE gains

Guardian
Death Knight - Bone Shield Additional Survival CD
Hunter - Ice Trap Kiting Aid
Mage - Mage Ward Kiting Aid
Monk - to be announced
Paladin - Consecration Damage boost if needed
Priest - Fear Ward Utility (re)gain
Rogue - Feint Additional Survival CD for AoE
Shaman - Lightning Shield Damage boost if needed
Warlock - Life Tap Damage boost (for damage spell)/ Survival CD (for use of SD meaning 70% odd dodge)
Warrior - Spell Reflection Survival CD Vs Casters

Resto
Death Knight - Icebound Fortitude PvP PvE gain (emergency, prevent loss of a healer)
Hunter - DeterrencePvP PvE gain (emergency, prevent loss of a healer)
Mage - Ice Block PvP and PvE gain (emergency, prevent loss of a healer or remove Debuff)
Monk - to be announce
Paladin - Cleanse
Priest - Leap of FaithPvP and PvE gain(Shannox style Life Grip to gain distance, if you abuse the use, you can have someone remain DPSing then LG them to where needed=raid DPS
Rogue - EvasionPvP gain
Shaman - Spiritwalker's Grace PvP and PvE gain (for movement phases)
Warlock - Demonic Circle: Teleport PvP and PvE gain (helps on grouping phases, you can stay out ensuring healing and teleport last minute)
Warrior - Intimidating Roar PvP gain


The symbiosis effect is not meant to be a case of a necessity, on a pure patchwerk fight, i doubt that a symbiosis will have any major effect. It allows the use of utility in a given fight, you have player x,y,z do preform soaking due to having a given CD, one player not here and no-one to replace or allow a fight to have try a fight differently (10 man guild with no balance druid, have a group of adds that cast spells, easiest way is to out heal the damage which can be done or to make it easier give the dps shaman symbiosis and they can aoe Silence them for 10 seconds while you AoE them down) (10 man guild only has 1 BR with current setup, give the holy paladin symbiosis so you have an emerency)(for multiple effects, tanks dies, no BR, the traditional DPS squeeze to kill a boss before raid wipes, Druid pops a survival CD that means they are 2 shot rather than 1 shot, allowing rest to cast that extra spell)

Situationally a symbiosis given to the correct player may help, however its not a situation where like DI where DI MUST be cast on Spec A>B>C because they gain the most from it

[Emophia]

While I'm fine with this ability in general I do not think druids should get access to iconic class spell.

The 4 spells I am against druids getting are AMS/Bubble/Spirit Wolves/Dispersion because those 4 spells are class defining spells and another class shouldn't be able to access it, it's like if warriors got a talent that gave them flight form or rogues got cat form, you can't just give something that integral, that much of a part of a class to someone else.

Rest is fair game though.

[traen]

No more Unholy Frenzy for cats.

Symbiosis sucks.

[Sooba]

So, what are people thoughts on the (current) Symbiosis options for kitty?

Personally I like the thought of Spirit Wolves (although spirit cats might feel more fitting) would be sweet, but it'd be hard to convince an Enh shammy to give up one of their dps cooldowns for a "meh" interrupt.

I also like Shattering Blow from Warriors, with TF, Berserk and your selected level 60 talent, sounds like kitty's could provide a lot of burst. The problem being of course we take a dps cooldown and give them a utility cooldown.

Seems like the "best" and easiest in terms of convincing them to switch, seems to be Frost DKs. Give them more AoE dps for a RP dump they don't use often (unless they do in MoP now)

You need to read the ability again. It's a pure gain of skill. Noone "loses" or "gives away" anything. As for you wanting DPS wolves, no problem. My Resto shaman would LOVE a 10 second cd stealth! In fact, for pure PvP I think it's one of the best trade offs you can get. A DPS cooldown for gibs, and a survivability / drinking short cd for the shaman.