Nerfs Devaluing 4 piece (Shadow)?

[Deleted]

Which is the point I was trying to make,...just not sure if I made it clear enough I guess. Since everything dies so fast Mastery can't really take its full effect since fiend is less and less likely to be ready for burn phases. I was just wondering if people were starting to stray away from mastery and had any numbers/logs to show any kind of big differences between a haste heavy build (3202 haste and the rest into mastery) and a mastery heavy build (30% haste buffed and the rest into mastery). With the mastery heavy build I have been able to rank on just about every single fight every single week until the 15% nerf hit.

I see your point but it all depends on exactly how long the bosses live because another way of thinking about it could also be higher burst will give higher overall dps on a short fight compared to a long fight.
So its not really about long vs short fight but more about how the cd's line up and what not.

[asharia]

you dont rank anymore because guilds that have been 8/8h for weeks now just tear through all the fights and can ignore/cheese mechanics to parse massive numbers.

plus. i dont see how its any difference from any other class that loses CD usage with shorter fights. dps warriors dont get a second reck on ultra anymore because it dies too fast, for example.

[Greywardenn]

I completely understand/agree with the previous two comments, my question which nobody seems to be able to read is asking if anybody has abandoned mastery all together and just max out Haste since mastery isn't going to be as much of a factor considering all bosses melt now.

[Skygoneblue]

Grey man, I'm not trying to be overly pedantic for the sake of trolling or anything like that, but the entire first page of this thread is a series of people misreading your first post, people asking for clarification of your post (me), and you reiterating that no one is understanding you.

Perhaps people are misreading you because the first post is a big story about how you used to rank on WoL with a Mastery build, and now stuff is dying fast with a 15% nerf, and you think you can't use Shadowfiend as much. Nowhere in that post do you say:

Has anyone opted to NO LONGER reforge Mastery for Shadowfiend burst due to the shortened fight duration since the 15% nerfs?

Again, not trying to start a flamewar, I just dislike seeing you repeatedly comment that no one is reading your posts, when that's hardly the case. I read your post thoroughly, and your question wasn't made clear until near the end of the first page.

[Greywardenn]

Grey man, I'm not trying to be overly pedantic for the sake of trolling or anything like that, but the entire first page of this thread is a series of people misreading your first post, people asking for clarification of your post (me), and you reiterating that no one is understanding you.

Perhaps people are misreading you because the first post is a big story about how you used to rank on WoL with a Mastery build, and now stuff is dying fast with a 15% nerf, and you think you can't use Shadowfiend as much. Nowhere in that post do you say:

Has anyone opted to NO LONGER reforge Mastery for Shadowfiend burst due to the shortened fight duration since the 15% nerfs?

Again, not trying to start a flamewar, I just dislike seeing you repeatedly comment that no one is reading your posts, when that's hardly the case. I read your post thoroughly, and your question wasn't made clear until near the end of the first page.

That is exactly what I asked in post #20 and was reiterated by Joyful in post #21.

[lwalker8]

I haven't heard of anyone who has abandoned mastery at this point and gone all haste who has logs to back up their reasoning. It will certainly help on Heroic Warmaster, and should be ok for every fight except for HM Spine, HM Hagara HM Madness and HM Ultraxion. But that is already 3 fights, and 2 of them are the only ones with relevant DPS checks at this point for a typical guild. So I don't see why you'd do it.

[Skygoneblue]

That is exactly what I asked in post #20 and was reiterated by Joyful in post #21.

Which is exactly what I said: "the end of the first page."

[lwalker8]

Which is exactly what I said: "the end of the first page."

For the record, I read the same original post as you, and had no problem interpreting the question. I even commented soon afterwards wondering how three other people read the same post and completely misinterpreted it as a thread about HM Spine, despite it saying "except HM Spine".

[Greywardenn]

This thread is probably not going to be useful to anybody lol

[lwalker8]

This thread is probably not going to be useful to anybody lol

Well I thought it was an interesting discussion to have >.>

From WoL:

Morchok: Top parse is mastery reforged
Zon'ozz: Top parse is mastery reforged
Yor: Top parse is mastery reforged
Hagara: Top parse is mastery reforged
Ultraxion: Top parses are mixed between haste and mastery. The main factor here seems to be a 410 CoC and the Legendary.
Warmaster: Top parse is haste reforged
Madness: Top parse is mastery reforged

So in short: It seems that mastery is still the consensus way to go. That being said, this is hardly a scientific way to go about it, and hundreds of factors that go into determining performance differences at these levels. Gearing is just one of them.

[Skygoneblue]

For the record, I read the same original post as you, and had no problem interpreting the question. I even commented soon afterwards wondering how three other people read the same post and completely misinterpreted it as a thread about HM Spine, despite it saying "except HM Spine".

And I noticed! I appreciated the fact that you didn't speed-read his post. I just wanted to ask for a bit more specifics as to the topic of discussion.

Anyway, back on topic...

Are the stats you just posted from normal or heroic?

[lwalker8]

Are the stats you just posted from normal or heroic?

Forgot to mention: Those are HM 10 man. I felt like that was the most relevant to the most people who are interested. In a few cases I couldn't use the top parse as well due to name change/missing character ect...

Also: Haste generally tended to be around 17% on armory for "Mastery Builds" and 27% for "Haste Builds".

[Greywardenn]

Forgot to mention: Those are HM 10 man. I felt like that was the most relevant to the most people who are interested. In a few cases I couldn't use the top parse as well due to name change/missing character ect...

Also: Haste generally tended to be around 17% on armory for "Mastery Builds" and 27% for "Haste Builds".

TY for being civil about this topic btw, appreciate the information as checking the top parses after the nerfs should have been common sense to me

[lwalker8]

TY for being civil about this topic btw, appreciate the information as checking the top parses after the nerfs should have been common sense to me

I had been wondering myself whether haste would become a better choice at some point. I think a lot of it may depend on your trinkets as well. Something we'll have to keep watching as gear gets closer to BiS

[Greywardenn]

I had been wondering myself whether haste would become a better choice at some point. I think a lot of it may depend on your trinkets as well. Something we'll have to keep watching as gear gets closer to BiS

Agreed,......currently 400 ilvl and lucky enough to have cunning (normal) and the stacking trinket (LFR). I may try and reforge for tonight's raid and go to an ass load of Haste. If I can get home early enough and I remember lol I will update the thread with results.

[eErike]

I had been wondering myself whether haste would become a better choice at some point. I think a lot of it may depend on your trinkets as well. Something we'll have to keep watching as gear gets closer to BiS

I've been trying a lot lately changing around from haste and mastery.

What I've tried so far (DI every time):

3215 haste (as close to 3202 as I could), hit capped and 1300 mastery. Reforging crit away as much as I could.
2141 haste, hit capped and rest as much mastery as I could (around 2200). Crit away.
2228 haste, hit capped and rest as much mastery as I could (2000ish). As little crit as possible.
2141 haste, no hit cap (around 14%) and rest mastery (about 2600). As little crit as possible.
3215 haste. no hit cap (around 14%) and rest mastery ( 1500 ish). As little crit as possible.

I've tried every setup with the trinkets I have avaible:

Combo 1: LFR WuB + Insignia of the Corrupted Mind HC.
Combo 2: IotCM HC + Necro HC
Combo 3: LFR WuB + Necro HC
Combo 4: LFR WuB + Bottle
Combo 5: Necro HC + Bottle (Spine setup).

Every test was with DI on ultraxion LFR.

IofCM is reather bad for a pure haste setup (over 3202) as it will put you on a shit ton of hsate while procced. About 6500 for me, roughly 65% which is to much.
It's also pretty bad for a t13 4p SF combo as it will outsync you with your shadow fiends attacks making some orb procs wasted.

What I generaly found working the best for me was to aim at 2228 haste where my mind flays will sync up good between the MB CDs and use the WuB + OofCM trinket combo. If the trinket procs when you have your shadow fiend and AA ready, just handle it as it's a bloodlust and continue your normal rotation and enjoy some big MB hits once in a while. This Combo is great for fight like Warlord, Yor'sahj and warmaster where you can focus these untimed procs on a seccondary target while keeping your dots up on you main target.

Fights like Hagara heroic and Spine heroic should always be done with as much mastery as possible. ( I usualy go with 2228 now to though since the nerfs).

I'm confident that a mastery heavy build where you aim for the seccond VT tic or the MF sync is the way to go once you have either the legendary staff (I don't) and/or a good trinket combo (cunning + WuB) that does not randomly proc haste as this will alow you to spike realy realy high during SF AA combos while maintaining a decent DPS in between.

Also, not beeing hitcapped while running with the 4p t13 combo is like running russian roulette:
It can be very rewarding but if you are unlucky it will bring you down a lot.