MOP Warrior Concerns.

[JayJay09]

Major Glyphs

- Glyph of Gag Order no longer affects Storm Bolt.

Do I get this right that the glyph of gag order (new build) will punish for choosing stormbolt? I thought it was awesome to be able to stun DKs and they couldn't use IBF. Now they can...

I was so happy to be able to stun a dk for 100%.. Stupid change, unless I missed something that got also changed... Maybe Stormbolt will become a standalone ability that does not replace heroic throw, which would be awesome then.

[Swaggah]

Major Glyphs

- Glyph of Gag Order no longer affects Storm Bolt.

Do I get this right that the glyph of gag order (new build) will punish for choosing stormbolt? I thought it was awesome to be able to stun DKs and they couldn't use IBF. Now they can...

I was so happy to be able to stun a dk for 100%.. Stupid change, unless I missed something that got also changed... Maybe Stormbolt will become a standalone ability that does not replace heroic throw, which would be awesome then.

Pretty sure stormbolt replacing heroic throw was something only discussed before beta even started, becuase as long as I've been on the beta we've had heroic throw

[Vojka]

Warriors (arms in particular) are looking to be quite strong in the beta to be honest, i dont see how they are weak, sure our crit is an issue but we are turning out to be MUCH better then we are now on live. Spell reflect with a 15 second CD (10 glyphed), decent damage (no more ramp up time bs) and most importantly, juggernaut 12 sec charge with 30 sec cd heroic leap is going to be fucking boss as it reminds me of having our old charge/intercept combo back in season 6-season 9.

If anything, you guys should be worrying that we might get nerfed again.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure stormbolt replacing heroic throw was something only discussed before beta even started, becuase as long as I've been on the beta we've had heroic throw

Just as safeguard replaces intervene, stormbolt replaces heroic throw. We don't lose heroic throw in beta because it's a 90 lvl talent and nobody has picked it yet. It's a strange change, mayhaps but... well, at least this way you don't put both stuns and silences on DR. But if stuns were on DR, before you at least had the full silence. Though in most situations you wouldn't waste a glyph on gag order having stormbolt. Don't know, it's not a change that remarkable.

[Korgoth]

You guys should be paying more attention to the tank differences. Heroic Leap will have competition in PvP and in PvE, my bear is so much better than a p.warrior right now it's silly.

Be a shame if everyone's seemingly constant focus on arms ended up letting prot get knocked down to secondary tank in pve and warriors knocked out of RBGs all together. I mean, I know right now unless something big changes I'm dropping our RBG warrior for sure. They just don't have the survivability Druids and DKs currently have.

I've yet to meet a flag carrying warrior who wouldn't rather be arms! Let the Druids have it, let the DKs have it, make Arms what it once was, king of battleground damage. If all warriors can do in MoP is fill the niche in BGs Frost DKs have now, then im all for it, because Flag Carrying is not fun, its not playing, its standing around till you cap or die, if Druids or DKs actually want to have that misery let em!

Hell If prot wasn't viable right now, then warriors would be pretty much dead in all of pvp, and that would be a good thing, because then maybe Blizzard would have had to take notice and done something to fix arms instead of leaving it gutted; and I would be having so much fun I wouldn't be playing GW2 today instead of WoW.

---------- Post added 2012-04-27 at 03:09 PM ----------

Just as safeguard replaces intervene, stormbolt replaces heroic throw. We don't lose heroic throw in beta because it's a 90 lvl talent and nobody has picked it yet. It's a strange change, mayhaps but... well, at least this way you don't put both stuns and silences on DR. But if stuns were on DR, before you at least had the full silence. Though in most situations you wouldn't waste a glyph on gag order having stormbolt. Don't know, it's not a change that remarkable.

Seems like a double standard to me. Are they removing the disarm off Psychic Horror then, or the Terror effect? Priests can have a dual CC instant cast ability but the idea of a warrior getting it has to get squashed before its even player tested.

[Flaks]

The front page changes today are...interesting. They seem to be finally starting to balance mechanics across the board.

I'm just biding my time since the current state of our talent tree is horrible with 3/6 of the tiers having mandatory talents completely going against their new talent design philosophy.

---------- Post added 2012-04-27 at 05:20 PM ----------

Warriors (arms in particular) are looking to be quite strong in the beta to be honest, i dont see how they are weak, sure our crit is an issue but we are turning out to be MUCH better then we are now on live. Spell reflect with a 15 second CD (10 glyphed), decent damage (no more ramp up time bs) and most importantly, juggernaut 12 sec charge with 30 sec cd heroic leap is going to be fucking boss as it reminds me of having our old charge/intercept combo back in season 6-season 9.

If anything, you guys should be worrying that we might get nerfed again.

Yes because being put back into a state we were in 2 expansions ago means we need a nerf. People need to realize that we were completely gutted mechanically in Cataclysm to a worse overall state than in TBC. Other classes are getting more and more new stuff while we're finally being brought up to how we were in WotLK. Why the hell would that set us up for a nerf? If anything we STILL need more buffs to COMPETE WITH OTHER CLASSES.

Don't look at damage right now because it's absurd on beta. When I'm constantly able to be 3-4 shot classes with 5k+ resilience you know damage isn't even close to balanced. And sadly when push comes to shove that's all we have on other classes on the beta right now. Every single other class in MoP has at least 2 abilities to counter every ONE of ours.

[Stanton Biston]

I've yet to meet a flag carrying warrior who wouldn't rather be arms! Let the Druids have it, let the DKs have it, make Arms what it once was, king of battleground damage. If all warriors can do in MoP is fill the niche in BGs Frost DKs have now, then im all for it, because Flag Carrying is not fun, its not playing, its standing around till you cap or die, if Druids or DKs actually want to have that misery let em!

Hell If prot wasn't viable right now, then warriors would be pretty much dead in all of pvp, and that would be a good thing, because then maybe Blizzard would have had to take notice and done something to fix arms instead of leaving it gutted; and I would be having so much fun I wouldn't be playing GW2 today instead of WoW.

I worry that Warriors will end up like hunters where they disappeared and slowly came back over 5 years because I don't think WoW has 5 more years.

That said, swapping Frost DKs and Prot Warriors does seem like a reasonable change to me. I was initially concerned about Warriors needing too much healing, but Frost DKs are pretty fragile. Especially for a plate class.

[Punctured]

Whats funny is we are seeing major hits to our abilities already, dragonshout recently got reduced to 8 yards and 3 seconds instead of 10 and 5. Major hit there, 3 second stun with an 8 yard radius on a 1 minute CD. Nope, especially when it shares a DR with our other stuns.

And i agree with the post above, we are already seeing mandatory talents in our trees.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 09:57 AM ----------

I worry that Warriors will end up like hunters where they disappeared and slowly came back over 5 years because I don't think WoW has 5 more years.

That said, swapping Frost DKs and Prot Warriors does seem like a reasonable change to me. I was initially concerned about Warriors needing too much healing, but Frost DKs are pretty fragile. Especially for a plate class.

WoW's probably got another good... 10+ Years. Probably going to be atleast another 3 expansions after this.

[Deleted]

Well, that only means that Dragon Roar is shaping as a finisher ability with very heavy damage asociated (assured crit to balance damage around that instead of possible double damage, reduced stun), something at 35%? Put the stingy skull banner up, CS, Dragon Roar, reck, Executex2 while it is knocked down. Shockwave is the aoe stun. I'm glad to get nerfed? No. Everyone knew Dragon Roar needs a bit of tweaking? Yes. Let's not whine for the sake of it.

About the dual CC... well, it's true that it didn't got the chance to be tested. But I always found redundant the whole thing. Most of the times I wouldn't glyph gag order if I were to pick Stormbolt, being the glyph spots that limited. For mages not blinking it away, or for someone you already stunned too much. In the DR department sometimes it helps, sometimes it don't.

[Austilias]

WoW's probably got another good... 10+ Years. Probably going to be atleast another 3 expansions after this.

I'm not so sure. One thousand people is a pretty hefty number of people in the minds of most. A game losing two million subscribers however, in one expansion, can be safely classified as haemorrhaging (Much as people might have liked to represent the 100k loss in Q4 of last year as a rip-roaring success for Blizzard; really, it wasn't.). Sure, the current WoW playerbase vastly outnumbers 2 million, but there are two things I think everyone has to admit:

-Serious problems were/are present to have caused this
-MoP, much as they present it as a "new", "fresh", "exciting" expansion, really is more of a "make or break" for Blizzard in many respects, and most of us hope they will make it, rather than break it.

As for warriors...I really don't know. I levelled one recently (currently lvl 82), and they've always felt like a class with a lot of reputation/prestige, but they do look like they're getting the short end of the stick in MoP. At the moment I play Fury spec because I like it and it feels much smoother than Arms, but so too has it felt clunky with the occasional moments of idling/auto-attacking for rage. Don't even get me started on Prot Warriors either; the amount of buttons they have made me remember my Warlock. They just don't feel like those 'Destructive, battle-hardened, fear-inducing, blood-curdling, flesh-rending veterans' that they're so often peddled to be.

[Mirishka]

Beta Deep Wounds does significantly greater damage than Rend. As a tank I've seen it ticking for 13-15k.

Battle Stance is 10% more damage.

Warriors still have VR for healing and a choice of 3 strong healing talents.

The crit concern is valid and something I'm not happy about. Far from the end of the world, but I'm in agreement on that one.

Colossus Smash is Arms and Fury. Only spec that can't use it is protection.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 11:06 AM ----------

Major Glyphs

- Glyph of Gag Order no longer affects Storm Bolt.

Do I get this right that the glyph of gag order (new build) will punish for choosing stormbolt? I thought it was awesome to be able to stun DKs and they couldn't use IBF. Now they can...

I was so happy to be able to stun a dk for 100%.. Stupid change, unless I missed something that got also changed... Maybe Stormbolt will become a standalone ability that does not replace heroic throw, which would be awesome then.

You apparently don't understand the overlap here.

Storm Bolt stuns for 3s. Gag Order silences for 3 seconds, thats how we pull casters to us with Heroic Throw.

If you Storm Bolt a caster, and its both silenced and stunned for 3s, it will recover exactly where it was and resume nuking you. Its absolutely pointless to have a silence attached to an ability that stuns for the same duration.

[Punctured]

Beta Deep Wounds does significantly greater damage than Rend. As a tank I've seen it ticking for 13-15k.

Battle Stance is 10% more damage.

Warriors still have VR for healing and a choice of 3 strong healing talents.

The crit concern is valid and something I'm not happy about. Far from the end of the world, but I'm in agreement on that one.

Colossus Smash is Arms and Fury. Only spec that can't use it is protection.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 11:06 AM ----------



You apparently don't understand the overlap here.

Storm Bolt stuns for 3s. Gag Order silences for 3 seconds, thats how we pull casters to us with Heroic Throw.

If you Storm Bolt a caster, and its both silenced and stunned for 3s, it will recover exactly where it was and resume nuking you. Its absolutely pointless to have a silence attached to an ability that stuns for the same duration.

Wrong, this is exactly how we catch a mage.

[Austilias]

Wrong, this is exactly how we catch a mage.

I don't think you get it. If the opponent is both stunned and silenced for 3 secs, then what is the point of the silence? They can't do anything anyway.

[Punctured]

Its not a finisher it was meant to be an AoE Peel its not really a peel with how short it is and how long the CD is. Im not "Whining for the sake of it", im pointing out blatant issues. If you dont think its an issue you must not of played a Warrior for very long. Shockwave is a Frontal stun, not an AOE stun. Dragons Roar was fine how it was. Our finisher is execute, and knowing Blizzard im sure theres going to be a Global on Skull Banner and Recklessness. I highly doubt theyre going to allow us to practically have guaranteed crits. Thats 70% increased crit + stat crit. Theres no way, we could literally kill someone in 10 seconds with that amount of crit regardless of them being low on health.

[Deleted]

I've yet to meet a flag carrying warrior who wouldn't rather be arms! Let the Druids have it, let the DKs have it, make Arms what it once was, king of battleground damage. If all warriors can do in MoP is fill the niche in BGs Frost DKs have now, then im all for it, because Flag Carrying is not fun, its not playing, its standing around till you cap or die, if Druids or DKs actually want to have that misery let em!

I'd much rather be prot. The extra control and difficulty people have in killing me I much prefer over the fragility of arms. That's an issue with someone not wanting to be a flag carrier, not just because arms isn't strong. I'd much rather flag carry as prot than arms, even if arms wasn't as weak.

[Punctured]

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 11:42 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

I don't think you get it. If the opponent is both stunned and silenced for 3 secs, then what is the point of the silence? They can't do anything anyway.

I dont think you get it, the point of being stunned and silenced is so you can catch players.

1) Mages trying to blink.
2) Shamans trying to Thunderstorm.

Both are usable while stunned.

[LurkerOnly]

Most of your listed problems are datamining errors, unless they've done a HUGE iteration on warrior for the next beta patch, which seems unlikely given the amount of time it's been. You're just seeing incorrect tooltips.

Last I was looking, enraged was buffed compared to live, CS wasn't fury only, etc etc.

It's fun to look at datamined stuff, but if you remember from previous PTR's and expansions, it's usually nearly 100% inaccurate compared to the released patch. Just keep that in mind. Of course the numbers for damage change every small patch, we already know that. We have no idea what those numbers actually mean based on the content/gear it's balanced around, and it's not final anyway. Tooltips are often completely wrong just because datamining is a hit-or-miss type of deal.

It's not too early to notice trends in what they're doing, balance-wise, but it's far too early to assume that what you're seeing is in any way indicative of the final product. In my opinion, there's no clear trends in what's happened so far to any class, including warrior, to draw any useful conclusions. What I'm saying is, we don't have enough data to really be concerned about it.

I'm not telling you not to express your opinions about your concerns, I just want to remind you (everyone, basically) that the MoP beta is one of the earliest, least polished betas we've had so far, and a lot of things will change by next week, let alone by release. I just hope people won't get too worked up about it. The sky won't fall until there's an RC after the patch number, until then it's just them trying stuff out. Anyone else remember when druids had feign death in Vanilla beta? It's just an example of how much beta changes before release, and all I'm trying to do is help people keep their happy-faces, not tell anyone what not to say.

[Deleted]

Its not a finisher it was meant to be an AoE Peel its not really a peel with how short it is and how long the CD is. Im not "Whining for the sake of it", im pointing out blatant issues. If you dont think its an issue you must not of played a Warrior for very long. Shockwave is a Frontal stun, not an AOE stun. Dragons Roar was fine how it was. Our finisher is execute, and knowing Blizzard im sure theres going to be a Global on Skull Banner and Recklessness. I highly doubt theyre going to allow us to practically have guaranteed crits. Thats 70% increased crit + stat crit. Theres no way, we could literally kill someone in 10 seconds with that amount of crit regardless of them being low on health.

Ains... it have been said many times, skull banner does not give +20% crit. It gives +20% crit damage. That's why it sucks normally/it's cool with Dragon Roar (+20% damage always) and Recklesness (+20% damage on each crit).

Shockwave it's a frontal aoe stun. It can get dodged if you are lagging a bit, which sucks, but the "I need an aoe stun" talent is shockwave, not Dragon Roar. Dragon Roar is a very heavy hitting skill with a aoe stun attached to it. It helps you ensuring kills, not as much as the old reckstorm, but it's the way I see it, as a finisher.

[Austilias]

[SIZE=1]I dont think you get it, the point of being stunned and silenced is so you can catch players.

1) Mages trying to blink.
2) Shamans trying to Thunderstorm.

Both are usable while stunned.

Let me put it this way. As a combined stun/silence you get a maximum of 3 seconds CC. Separated however, you have the potential for 6 seconds CC in a seperate stun/silence. Storm Bolt stuns them for 3 secs, meaning they would have to use Blink/Thunderstorm/PvP trinket to escape it. Alright, all well and good or so they might think. But then you can silence them for another 3 secs via Gag Order, making their efforts quite useless; as opposed to a combined stun/silence which could be broken by a single use of a PvP trinket, for example, as well as only lasting 3 secs at the worst.

[Punctured]

Let me put it this way. As a combined stun/silence you get a maximum of 3 seconds CC. Separated however, you have the potential for 6 seconds CC in a seperate stun/silence. Storm Bolt stuns them for 3 secs, meaning they would have to use Blink/Thunderstorm/PvP trinket to escape it. Alright, all well and good or so they might think. But then you can silence them for another 3 secs via Gag Order, making their efforts quite useless; as opposed to a combined stun/silence which could be broken by a single use of a PvP trinket, for example, as well as only lasting 3 secs at the worst.

No ones going to waste a trinket on it, thats the point of a Stormbolt gag order, it gives you uptime on them. Itd be a complete waste of a trinket if they did. Youre going to Waste a Stun + Heroic throw, which is bad, theres two CDS gone. Why would you waste a second range silence on the same target you stunned with another ability, when you used to be able to do both with one ability ?

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 12:33 PM ----------

Ains... it have been said many times, skull banner does not give +20% crit. It gives +20% crit damage. That's why it sucks normally/it's cool with Dragon Roar (+20% damage always) and Recklesness (+20% damage on each crit).

Shockwave it's a frontal aoe stun. It can get dodged if you are lagging a bit, which sucks, but the "I need an aoe stun" talent is shockwave, not Dragon Roar. Dragon Roar is a very heavy hitting skill with a aoe stun attached to it. It helps you ensuring kills, not as much as the old reckstorm, but it's the way I see it, as a finisher.

Is that an updated tooltip cause ive never seen it say that ? But i see what youre saying now that makes your point on it alot more clear. I hope they dont nerf that then cause Dragon Roar is already doing what ? 50k instant damage ? +20% crit damage from that combined with recklessness yeah i can see that now.[COLOR="red"]