Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[pickley]

DBZ Kai did not cut out all filler. The main thing it cuts is the fight scenes. That, and the entire Buu saga. Also, give me one example of, "two guys panting and explaining their attacks with pseudo-ominous music for the entire episode". I know you like your "hyperbole" but if you want to have a serious discussion you should stick to facts.

Wasnt the Buu saga only made because fans screamed for more? IIRC the creator didnt really want to do it.

[OrcsRLame]

But it is filler, which is why it's filler, and why Kai cut it out. You don't seem to know what exactly 'filler' means.

Kai didn't cut things out because they were filler. Kai cut things out seemingly at random because the people responsible for it had no support from Toriyama. That's why Kai cuts out some things that are in the manga, and leaves in, "filler" scenes.

Just to be clear. I know exactly what filler means. I could quote the urban dictionary definition at you, if you would like. I feel it's pretty accurate. You also have to understand though, I give precisely zero fucks about standard anime definitions. Those are just labels people use to classify things. When it comes to DBZ, the only thing I care about is Akira Toriyama's vision. If something wasn't made by him, (or Ooshi Naho because she's awesome) I consider it to be both non-canon and filler.

The core of the story is what Toriyama feels is important. That can never be filler in my eyes.

---------- Post added 2012-05-06 at 03:15 AM ----------

Wasnt the Buu saga only made because fans screamed for more? IIRC the creator didnt really want to do it.

That's a false rumor created by fans. If you want all the details go to Kanzentai.com

Edit: Woot, 13 seconds of Trunks standing there. 13 SECONDS! GET OUT THE PITCHFORKS AND ZOMBIE NAZI PANDAS!!! Bitching about 13 seconds is pretty nitpicky, and is far from a whole episode of people standing there staring.

[Skelington]

Kai didn't cut things out because they were filler. Kai cut things out seemingly at random because the people responsible for it had no support from Toriyama. That's why Kai cuts out some things that are in the manga, and leaves in, "filler" scenes.

Just to be clear. I know exactly what filler means. I could quote the urban dictionary definition at you, if you would like. I feel it's pretty accurate. You also have to understand though, I give precisely zero fucks about standard anime definitions. Those are just labels people use to classify things. When it comes to DBZ, the only thing I care about is Akira Toriyama's vision. If something wasn't made by him, (or Ooshi Naho because she's awesome) I consider it to be both non-canon and filler.

The core of the story is what Toriyama feels is important. That can never be filler in my eyes.

---------- Post added 2012-05-06 at 03:15 AM ----------



That's a false rumor created by fans. If you want all the details go to Kanzentai.com

Hehehehe urban dictionary....

DBZ is not above the rules. Things are classified for a reason. Just because you love it doesn't mean it can't have flaws.

Kai cut out things that were not needed and dragged the show to the excruciating 300 episodes of buff guys panting and staring and describing their pants, stares, and punches that it was.

Edit: Woot, 13 seconds of Trunks standing there. 13 SECONDS! GET OUT THE PITCHFORKS AND ZOMBIE NAZI PANDAS!!! Bitching about 13 seconds is pretty nitpicky, and is far from a whole episode of people standing there staring.

And yet, that is the content of the entire show. The video is a clip of an exampled scene, if you didn't notice. They could have added actual points and plot elements in that time. But no. It has to be them staring and grunting about how buff they are.

[pickley]

Kai didn't cut things out because they were filler. Kai cut things out seemingly at random because the people responsible for it had no support from Toriyama. That's why Kai cuts out some things that are in the manga, and leaves in, "filler" scenes.

Just to be clear. I know exactly what filler means. I could quote the urban dictionary definition at you, if you would like. I feel it's pretty accurate. You also have to understand though, I give precisely zero fucks about standard anime definitions. Those are just labels people use to classify things. When it comes to DBZ, the only thing I care about is Akira Toriyama's vision. If something wasn't made by him, (or Ooshi Naho because she's awesome) I consider it to be both non-canon and filler.

The core of the story is what Toriyama feels is important. That can never be filler in my eyes.

---------- Post added 2012-05-06 at 03:15 AM ----------



That's a false rumor created by fans. If you want all the details go to Kanzentai.com

Edit: Woot, 13 seconds of Trunks standing there. 13 SECONDS! GET OUT THE PITCHFORKS AND ZOMBIE NAZI PANDAS!!! Bitching about 13 seconds is pretty nitpicky, and is far from a whole episode of people standing there staring.

Its a legit issue. 13 seconds is way too much, 5 seconds is enough. that extra 8 seconds could have been used for another scene or something.

[OrcsRLame]

Hehehehe urban dictionary....

DBZ is not above the rules. Things are classified for a reason. Just because you love it doesn't mean it can't have flaws.

Kai cut out things that were not needed and dragged the show to the excruciating 300 episodes of buff guys panting and staring and describing their pants, stares, and punches that it was.


And yet, that is the content of the entire show. The video is a clip of an exampled scene, if you didn't notice. They could have added actual points and plot elements in that time. But no. It has to be them staring and grunting about how buff they are.

I only used urban dictionary as an example because I believe its definition is fairly accurate.

Anywho, what rules? Who the fuck makes this shit up, and what gives them the right to decide what's right and wrong? And I am well aware that DBZ has flaws. I probably know them better than you. I do not believe these, "standard" definitions apply to DBZ though, because it's a very unique case. Generally, something is considered non-canon, or filler if it's not in the manga. It's very rare though that the original creator of the manga for a series takes such a heavy hand in designing the anime.

The anime is more of a second take, instead of a typical adaptation. Much in the same way that these standard definitions don't apply to Code Geass, (the anime was based on a script, not a manga, and the manga was made after the anime and is generally considered to be non-canon) I believe trying to apply these so called rules to DBZ is fundamentally flawed.

[Skelington]

I only used urban dictionary as an example because I believe its definition is fairly accurate.

Anywho, what rules? Who the fuck makes this shit up, and what gives them the right to decide what's right and wrong? And I am well aware that DBZ has flaws. I probably know them better than you. I do not believe these, "standard" definitions apply to DBZ though, because it's a very unique case. Generally, something is considered non-canon, or filler if it's not in the manga. It's very rare though that the original creator of the manga for a series takes such a heavy hand in designing the anime.

The anime is more of a second take, instead of a typical adaptation. Much in the same way that these standard definitions don't apply to Code Geass, (the anime was based on a script, not a manga, and the manga was made after the anime and is generally considered to be non-canon) I believe trying to apply these so called rules to DBZ is fundamentally flawed.

wat
Dragon Ball Z is not a prodigious godsend with a deeper message than every other anime. You're not admitting to any flaws whatsoever. If the manga battles lasted a few pages, then 4 episodes is not an accurate adaptation and is laden with filler. Hell, modern anime adaptations go through multiple chapters in a single episode and turn out spectacular. They did a good 50+ or so in the last couple episodes of Mirai Nikki and it turned out fairly well.

It's a shonen battle anime. It's not meant to be some perfect cosmic entity. It's about extremely buff guys beating the shit out of each other with homoerotic undertones. There is no deeper meaning -let alone any meaning- so these "rules"(whatever the fuck they are) aren't even applicable.

Nostalgia doesn't make a show what it is.

[OrcsRLame]

wat
Dragon Ball Z is not a prodigious godsend with a deeper message than every other anime. You're not admitting to any flaws whatsoever. If the manga battles lasted a few pages, then 4 episodes is not an accurate adaptation and is laden with filler. Hell, modern anime adaptations go through multiple chapters in a single episode and turn out spectacular. They did a good 50+ or so in the last couple episodes of Mirai Nikki and it turned out fairly well.

It's a shonen battle anime. It's not meant to be some perfect cosmic entity. It's about extremely buff guys beating the shit out of each other with homoerotic undertones. There is no deeper meaning -let alone any meaning- so these "rules"(whatever the fuck they are) aren't even applicable.

Nostalgia doesn't make a show what it is.

When did I ever say DBZ has a deeper meaning? How the fuck did you even get that from my post? And I agree that these, "rules" aren't even applicable. You're the one that brought it up in the first place. All I was saying is that it's rare for the creator of a manga to take such a heavy hand in the making of its anime. For example, Bleach, another popular Shounen anime. Tite Kubo doesn't do shit with the filler. He just told Noriyuki Abe and Masashi Sogo to not fuck things up too badly.

If you want me to list some flaws, I'd be happy to do so.

1. At times, the plot moves too slowly. Your exact complaint, I agree with it. I especially hate the Garlic jr. saga.
2. Bio Broly. May this movie burn in hell. It's so bad, I just can't stand it. Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans and A Hero's Legacy get honorable mentions for being shit fests.
3. A plot hole that bugs the shit out of me. You may not care about this, but this sort of thing is important to me. In the Cell games, Cell charges up a huge Kamehameha Wave. Goku warns him, and says that you can't put that much power into a Kamehameha Wave because it will destroy the Earth. That's fine on its own, but in Goku's fight against Fat Buu, Buu uses the Kamehameha Wave. The amount of power he put into it scared SS3 Goku, yet the blast only destroyed a small city? Not even my principal of energy condensation can cover that, as it's just about raw power. That's on the level of Krillin's nose in Krillin vs Bacterian in the original Dragon Ball.

[Zoma]

The amount of power he put into it scared SS3 Goku, yet the blast only destroyed a small city? Not even my principal of energy condensation can cover that, as it's just about raw power. That's on the level of Krillin's nose in Krillin vs Bacterian in the original Dragon Ball.

Give Buu a break, it was his first time trying the Kamehameha. He probably screwed up the technique and it fizzled out before hitting the city.

I'm kidding, it's probably a plot hole

[Skelington]

When did I ever say DBZ has a deeper meaning? How the fuck did you even get that from my post? And I agree that these, "rules" aren't even applicable. You're the one that brought it up in the first place. All I was saying is that it's rare for the creator of a manga to take such a heavy hand in the making of its anime. For example, Bleach, another popular Shounen anime. Tite Kubo doesn't do shit with the filler. He just told Noriyuki Abe and Masashi Sogo to not fuck things up too badly.

If you want me to list some flaws, I'd be happy to do so.

1. At times, the plot moves too slowly. Your exact complaint, I agree with it. I especially hate the Garlic jr. saga.
2. Bio Broly. May this movie burn in hell. It's so bad, I just can't stand it. Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans and A Hero's Legacy get honorable mentions for being shit fests.
3. A plot hole that bugs the shit out of me. You may not care about this, but this sort of thing is important to me. In the Cell games, Cell charges up a huge Kamehameha Wave. Goku warns him, and says that you can't put that much power into a Kamehameha Wave because it will destroy the Earth. That's fine on its own, but in Goku's fight against Fat Buu, Buu uses the Kamehameha Wave. The amount of power he put into it scared SS3 Goku, yet the blast only destroyed a small city? Not even my principal of energy condensation can cover that, as it's just about raw power. That's on the level of Krillin's nose in Krillin vs Bacterian in the original Dragon Ball.

It's all been implied in your other posts, both here and elsewhere when talking about dbz. We're not talking about Bleach, though. And the presence of the manga writer in the creation of the anime does not automaticallymake it better.

And yet, you can't admit that it's full of filler.

[Lymph]

Haha Krillin's nose vs Bacterian was funny because they went so far as Goku saying "Krillin why are you having trouble you don't even have a nose" and then Krillin was able to beat him.

[Jyubei]

Did they ever explain why they were stronger in the first place?

That's the thing, it was never explained why they were stronger than their future timeline counterparts.

Technically it is explained via their timeline differences.

I'll split this up.

Future Trunks Timeline: All Z Fighters are dead. This timeline does not benefit from Trunks telling the Z Fighters that the Androids were coming. Therefore the Z Fighters never trained to become stronger to fight the Androids.

Current Timeline: When Trunks travels to this timeline, he warns the Z Fighters. They begin massive training over the next couple years. It can be assumed that because of this training and progressively getting stronger that Dr. Gero ( who stated himself that he was always monitoring them with his little machines ) was augmenting his Android's power to let them be more powerful than the current Z Fighters. Cell would have been more powerful as well if he were allowed to have been fully formed but they destroyed his embryo in this timeline.

Basically Future Trunks timeline's Androids are weaker because the Z Fighters themselves were weaker than the Current Timeline. If say, Vegeta or Goku had gone back to the future (lol) with Future Trunks if that were possible if the time machine was bigger it stands to reason that Vegeta and/or Goku would have been able to destroy the Androids from the Future.

What seems more weird to me is that Trunks doesn't bother learning more about the Namekian Dragonballs existence. Theoretically he could have gone to Namek, returned Kami to life and restored the Z Fighters + Earth in the Future after the Future Androids and Cell were defeated.

[Lymph]

And at that point Trunks would be the strongest one... wouldn't that be interesting.

Are there different timeline afterworlds too? I guess there would have to be but it just seems weird to think about.

[shootyadead]

It's all been implied in your other posts, both here and elsewhere when talking about dbz. We're not talking about Bleach, though. And the presence of the manga writer in the creation of the anime does not automaticallymake it better.

And yet, you can't admit that it's full of filler.

Slow plot development =/= filler. DBZ is not full of filler. You say "in the manga this fight takes place over the course of 4 pages, but in the show it takes x amount of time, clearly this is nothing but filler". So what, do you want the fight to take place over the course of 4 pages of manga in the anime as well? All of what, 15-20 seconds? You'd turn a +250 episode show into a maybe 20 episode show in no time. You don't like slow plot development and you're arguing that it's the same as filler. It's not. End of discussion.

---------- Post added 2012-05-06 at 04:45 AM ----------

And at that point Trunks would be the strongest one... wouldn't that be interesting.

Are there different timeline afterworlds too? I guess there would have to be but it just seems weird to think about.

That is an odd thing to think of. I'd imagine there'd have to be too, but damn I can't seem to focus on it when I start thinking about it. I literally try to think about it and I drift out of my own thought process.

[Jyubei]

And at that point Trunks would be the strongest one... wouldn't that be interesting.

Are there different timeline afterworlds too? I guess there would have to be but it just seems weird to think about.

Well there are technically at least 3 different timelines cause there are 3 different versions of Cell. So I'm sure all these timelines are connected to each for their own DBZ Universe so anything is possible but all these universes can intertwine at least 3 times.

There is Future Trunks Cell, which Future Trunks defeats.
There is a 2nd Future Trunks Cell, which kills Future Trunks and steals the time machine. (This is the one we see most, who becomes Perfect Cell)
Then there is finally a 3rd Current Time Cell who was destroyed as an embryo.

[Skelington]

Slow plot development =/= filler. DBZ is not full of filler. You say "in the manga this fight takes place over the course of 4 pages, but in the show it takes x amount of time, clearly this is nothing but filler". So what, do you want the fight to take place over the course of 4 pages of manga in the anime as well? All of what, 15-20 seconds? You'd turn a +250 episode show into a maybe 20 episode show in no time. You don't like slow plot development and you're arguing that it's the same as filler. It's not. End of discussion.[COLOR="red"]

It is the same as filler. Most of what they show is unnecessary, and yes, Skelington would like it better if it was of a reasonable length. Shows that surpass 50 episodes tend to lose quality, and much farther than that it will quickly degrade. 250 episodes of filler is not a good thing, and it's not like DBZ has a super amazing, much less good(or really any), plotline that they need to drag it out. All it is is a bunch of muscled sweaty guys panting and screaming through intermissions of explanations on how they punch or shoot laser beams with names.
In one 12 episode anime, there is more plot than a single arc of dbz.

You saying "end of discussion" doesn't mean anything. It's like you're saying you're right, which is wrong.

[OrcsRLame]

It's all been implied in your other posts, both here and elsewhere when talking about dbz. We're not talking about Bleach, though. And the presence of the manga writer in the creation of the anime does not automaticallymake it better.

And yet, you can't admit that it's full of filler.

So what? I'm passionate about things I like. If you don't like it you're free to not talk to me or read my posts. Also, you're twisting my words. I never said the manga writer automatically makes the anime better, what I was trying to imply is that it makes it authentic. I was simply using Bleach as an example. Tite Kubo isn't involved in the making of filler, therefore to me it isn't authentic. It's non-canon, glorified fanfiction. It's just a coincidence that Bleach filler is terrible.

I also do acknowledge that DBZ has filler. How much, I'm not exactly sure. Toriyama didn't work on everything in the anime, just most of it. Anything he didn't work on I consider to be filler, if not non-canon. Unfortunately, other than a few specific scenes, it's not possible to differentiate between the two without asking Toriyama himself to go through the anime with you scene by scene.

[Zoma]

[Skelington]

So what? I'm passionate about things I like. If you don't like it you're free to not talk to me or read my posts. Also, you're twisting my words. I never said the manga writer automatically makes the anime better, what I was trying to imply is that it makes it authentic. I was simply using Bleach as an example. Tite Kubo isn't involved in the making of filler, therefore to me it isn't authentic. It's non-canon, glorified fanfiction. It's just a coincidence that Bleach filler is terrible.

I also do acknowledge that DBZ has filler. How much, I'm not exactly sure. Toriyama didn't work on everything in the anime, just most of it. Anything he didn't work on I consider to be filler, if not non-canon. Unfortunately, other than a few specific scenes, it's not possible to differentiate between the two without asking Toriyama himself to go through the anime with you scene by scene.

Authentic doesn't make it any less filler-y. Seconds upon seconds of just breathing and staring are filler. Just because he wasn't present in the making doesn't mean it's filler. He was probably working on all those stretched out scenes of nothing too, considering how abundant they are.

[OrcsRLame]

Authentic doesn't make it any less filler-y. Seconds upon seconds of just breathing and staring are filler. Just because he wasn't present in the making doesn't mean it's filler. He was probably working on all those stretched out scenes of nothing too, considering how abundant they are.

I don't care at all about that. I'm only interested in what's authentic, and I like the series as a whole.

[shootyadead]

It is the same as filler. Most of what they show is unnecessary, and yes, Skelington would like it better if it was of a reasonable length. Shows that surpass 50 episodes tend to lose quality, and much farther than that it will quickly degrade. 250 episodes of filler is not a good thing, and it's not like DBZ has a super amazing, much less good(or really any), plotline that they need to drag it out. All it is is a bunch of muscled sweaty guys panting and screaming through intermissions of explanations on how they punch or shoot laser beams with names.
In one 12 episode anime, there is more plot than a single arc of dbz.

You saying "end of discussion" doesn't mean anything. It's like you're saying you're right, which is wrong.

You said it yourself right there. The plotline is, in your opinion, nothing more than sweaty guys panting/screaming blah blah blah. So you're saying plotline is filler? How would that work then, because if that's the case, there's nothing at all that isn't filler in any anime. Either you're mistaken about what filler really is, or you're trying to hate on DBZ, the greatest anime ever.

---------- Post added 2012-05-06 at 05:37 AM ----------

Authentic doesn't make it any less filler-y. Seconds upon seconds of just breathing and staring are filler. Just because he wasn't present in the making doesn't mean it's filler. He was probably working on all those stretched out scenes of nothing too, considering how abundant they are.

In your opinion. Much the same as you telling me that saying end of discussion doesn't make me right, your opinion doesn't make you right either. And that's all you're arguing with here, your opinion.