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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    GW2 far more complex than GW1?

    so yea, anyone else think that looking at GW2's mechanics that the game is far and away more complex than GW1? people always complain that GW1 is hard to learn but really its extremely consistent. when i say mechanics im talking the nuts and bolts numbers under the hood.to me theres just so much going on in GW2 that's...not there. i dont think i can get my point across without an example

    ok so in Gw1 60 armor is the "break even" point for damage, anything lower than 60 armor will do more damage than listed anything more will do less at rate of doubling or halving the amount of damage than the last 40 armor increment. in simpler terms at 20 armor you take double damage. at 100 armor you take 50%, at 140 armor you take 25%. in GW2 all we see is "toughness reduced damage dealt"

    theres a much bigger black box going on.

    this to me is one of my biggest gripes coming from GW1, the loss of information and feeling of uncertainty and ambiguity.

    maybe it helped that the numbers were smaller and more manageable...
    Last edited by Glytch; 2012-05-06 at 10:37 AM.
    The Original Ganksta

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    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    All of the stats in GW1 were more clean cut and certainties; mainly because classes didn't share any stats except for armor. Stats were exclusive to classes.

    GW2's stats are the same for everyone and are valuable for everyone and have no exclusiveness (except for the last stat in the trait lines, which doesn't appear on gear). You have many more options for how to build your character stat wise than in GW1.

    Armor in GW1 tended to be the same for everyone of a specific class. Assassins always have 70, elementalists always have 60, and warriors always have 80 for example. Not including stats like X armor vs physical.

    It's make more sense to say that the armor stat in GW2 is gone and toughness just fills the same role but without the increasing damage for less of a certain amount. It actually seems to be clearer than in GW1 to me personally. More toughness and you take less damage. Less of it you take more. The armor system in GW1 seemed to be there to keep numbers smaller and more manageable.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2012-05-06 at 11:56 AM.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  3. #3
    also those real numbers and theory crafting will be available at some point i suppose, then again gw2 isnt about improving gear, but having a fancyer look.

  4. #4
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    I play an MMO to imporve my caracters skills, abilitys and powers. Not to be fancy.

    Guess game is not for me.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire MissCleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    I play an MMO to imporve my caracters skills, abilitys and powers. Not to be fancy.

    Guess game is not for me.
    Because of course you can't improve your character's skills, abilities, and powers in GW2. And God forbid improving your own skill at playing said character. Nope, the only reason to do anything in GW2 is to be fancy. Guess it's not the game for you.

  6. #6
    GW1 is certainly more of a numbers game than GW2. There will be theory crafting of course as long as numbers are still there, but what GW2 does is shift gaming away from the numbers and to the abilities. Its more a matter of play style and ability usage now which is just fine with me.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Freehoof View Post
    Because of course you can't improve your character's skills, abilities, and powers in GW2. And God forbid improving your own skill at playing said character. Nope, the only reason to do anything in GW2 is to be fancy. Guess it's not the game for you.
    Silly Freehoof the only way to improve your character is to get a higher gear score

    lr2p noob



    oh god just even pretending i believe in that garbage makes me sick. I cannot wait for a full release of this game.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    I play an MMO to improve my characters skills, abilities and powers. Not to be fancy.

    Guess [this[ game is not for me.
    Or, you could improve, as a player. In my opinion, that's worth more than any stat increase.
    If you wan to succeed because the numbers on your gear, the game probably isn't for you.
    Resurrected Holy Priest

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    I play an MMO to imporve my caracters skills, abilitys and powers. Not to be fancy.

    Guess game is not for me.
    In gw you improve your own skill rather than your character skill

  10. #10
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    You can improve your skill only so much. Anyone with common sense knows this. To be more powerfull, you need something outside your own skill, to make you better.
    If i want to play dress-up, ille go play The Sims.

    Sorry, but this bothers me alot, since im really looking forward to the game, but as a long time end game raider through several games, it saddens me to see a such promising game, where the only rewards will be cosmetic - playing dress-up.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    You can improve your skill only so much. Anyone with common sense knows this. To be more powerfull, you need something outside your own skill, to make you better.
    If i want to play dress-up, ille go play The Sims.

    Sorry, but this bothers me alot, since im really looking forward to the game, but as a long time end game raider through several games, it saddens me to see a such promising game, where the only rewards will be cosmetic - playing dress-up.
    I'm sure you're perfect at every game you play. Little do we know, you're actually the #1 PvPer AND raider in WoW, since your skills have capped and you're quite amazing.
    I am pretty jealous, tbh.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    You can improve your skill only so much. Anyone with common sense knows this. To be more powerfull, you need something outside your own skill, to make you better.
    If i want to play dress-up, ille go play The Sims.

    Sorry, but this bothers me alot, since im really looking forward to the game, but as a long time end game raider through several games, it saddens me to see a such promising game, where the only rewards will be cosmetic - playing dress-up.
    Saying that gear is purely cosmetic is a terrible misconception. Gear still has stats on it, and certain players will want gear with certain stats. The only difference between this method and WoW is that gear never increases in power or "Item level" and you never have to grind gear to see the latest content.

    Also, the skill ceiling appears to be quite high.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthurius View Post
    Saying that gear is purely cosmetic is a terrible misconception. Gear still has stats on it, and certain players will want gear with certain stats. The only difference between this method and WoW is that gear never increases in power or "Item level" and you never have to grind gear to see the latest content.

    Also, the skill ceiling appears to be quite high.
    Shhh, it's the Sims. Go away.

  14. #14
    Not really, no. I feel GW1 was more complex. Most of my GW1 guild felt the same during BWE1; calling it "palm-smash", "kiddie" and so on. I wouldn't go that far personally-- they are far more hardcore about GW1 than I. However, I do feel there were more meaningful choices/cerebral engagement in build & counter creation in Guild Wars 1.

    Though the combat style of both Guild Wars games is rather shallow overall from an intellectual standpoint I feel. GW2 is merely more twitch based gameplay than the first.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    I'm sure you're perfect at every game you play. Little do we know, you're actually the #1 PvPer AND raider in WoW, since your skills have capped and you're quite amazing.
    I am pretty jealous, tbh.
    You obviously didn't get his point or chose to ignore it.

    There is a finite/natural cap to everyone's personal skill. Otherwise anyone playing WoW for 5+ years would be a super player. While it's true that most players will see a noticeable increase in their "skill" within the first 2-3 months of the game it tends to cap out after that. Time spent playing only really enhances your knowledge of classes, abilities and builds and possibly how to counter them. But that's only a portion of what determines "skill".

    Many other aspects don't improve so naturally and thus there is a limit to how much an individual can improve on his/her game.

    Claiming personal skill improvement will somehow contribute to the longevity of the game is false for the vast, vast majority of the player base.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
    -snip-
    I'm sure that someone who said "If I wanted to play dress up I'd play the Sims." thought out his post as much as you and meant exactly what you said.
    Totally was not simply bashing on the game for a single aspect.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
    You obviously didn't get his point or chose to ignore it.

    There is a finite/natural cap to everyone's personal skill. Otherwise anyone playing WoW for 5+ years would be a super player. While it's true that most players will see a noticeable increase in their "skill" within the first 2-3 months of the game it tends to cap out after that. Time spent playing only really enhances your knowledge of classes, abilities and builds and possibly how to counter them. But that's only a portion of what determines "skill".

    Many other aspects don't improve so naturally and thus there is a limit to how much an individual can improve on his/her game.

    Claiming personal skill improvement will somehow contribute to the longevity of the game is false for the vast, vast majority of the player base.
    This is exactly my point. Thank you sir. Other people seem narrow minded on the subject. Longivity is exactly my concern.

    When you play your caracter good. you know the tactics. You have defeated the boss - What will keep you comming back, if the only reward is a pretty dress????? And not something that actually helps you in the next battle, or the next time you face the same boss?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    When you play your caracter good. you know the tactics. You have defeated the boss - What will keep you comming back, if the only reward is a pretty dress????? And not something that actually helps you in the next battle, or the next time you face the same boss?
    Fun, a foreign concept apparently.
    Not having fun? Don't run the dungeon. Can't find anything fun to do anymore? Stop playing until an expansion comes out. Artificially extending the gameplay to convince you to continue playing when you are no longer having fun isn't what GW2 is about. If you WANT to grind for stuff, that 'pretty dress' is there. However, since you do not NEED that pretty dress to continue, you have the choice of running the dungeon or not running it.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    This is exactly my point. Thank you sir. Other people seem narrow minded on the subject. Longivity is exactly my concern.

    When you play your caracter good. you know the tactics. You have defeated the boss - What will keep you comming back, if the only reward is a pretty dress????? And not something that actually helps you in the next battle, or the next time you face the same boss?
    I've already spoke my peace about "gear not being purely cosmetic".

    But otherwise, if you take gear completely out of the equation, what brings you back? Fun? Sure, but if it isn't fun what do you do? Easy, stop doing that content and go do something else. Out of content? Quit and come back after a content patch.

    Personally I won't be doing the latter because of the social nature of the game.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthurius View Post
    Personally I won't be doing the latter because of the social nature of the game.
    I won't be either, but figured I'd point out that the option is there for those who choose it. I mean, I played GW1 for a few years and never 'ran out' of content (which is pretty obvious due to the fact that I'm not even at 50/50 HoM points), but it depends on what you count as running out of content. Some people got to 20 in a day and considered themselves 'finished with the game', some did every mission on normal, some did every mission on normal and then again on hard, and some did every achievement they could find. All depends on what you consider content you wish to play.

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