USA Supreme Court decision on Arizona

[Dacien]

Preventing mexico for being "such a dung hole" would also prevent them from coming to the US
Push n pull

There are some problems you can't just throw money at. Mexico requires a complete overhaul and scrubbing out. So many politicians and law enforcement personnel are corrupt that there's no way anything will ever get done without a complete overhaul. just my two cents.

And something like that is simply not a task we can accomplish short of invading Mexico.

[Wells]

I don't condone our drug policy in any way, but it seems to me that you're getting the cart before the horse. The reason Mexico is destabilized by our drug policies is because it was already loaded with corruption, poverty, and crime. If this weren't the case, Canada would be dangerously destabilized as well.

Chicken and Egg. Sure Mexico has never been great, but its been way better. Whether their government was destablized by the cartels or the cartels were only there because they were unstable is irrelevant, things can't improve until the cartels' back is broken.

[Dacien]

I've never once said I want open borders. I just don't think that you can clamp down the border hard enough to stop it without actually address what is causing it.

We should do both, and supplement our efforts with increased illegal immigrant deportation. Apparently Obama, overall, is a bump up ahead of Bush in deportations (slightly), but he contradicts his deportation numbers with his words and other actions. But it's clear he sympathizes with illegal immigrants, and that will only make the problem worse.

[Tastyfish]

Wait, are we talking the lower part of North America and drugs? IS IT TIME FOR OLLIE NORTH YET?

[Spectral]

Chicken and Egg. Sure Mexico has never been great, but its been way better. Whether their government was destablized by the cartels or the cartels were only there because they were unstable is irrelevant, things can't improve until the cartels' back is broken.

I concur that changing our policies to assist in stabilization is absolutely critical.

I disagree that it's irrelevant what occurred first when we're placing blame. Our policies surely have a role in causing trouble, but had a negative effect because of preexisting conditions. If you find this irrelevant on the basis that it's not pertinent to how we should act now, that's fine.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 08:05 PM ----------

We should do both, and supplement our efforts with increased illegal immigrant deportation. Apparently Obama, overall, is a bump up ahead of Bush in deportations (slightly), but he contradicts his deportation numbers with his words and other actions. But it's clear he sympathizes with illegal immigrants, and that will only make the problem worse.

He's expressed sympathy for children, who get fucked for no rational reason by deportations. I can't fathom a decent person disagreeing with him on this point.

[Wells]

We should do both, and supplement our efforts with increased illegal immigrant deportation. Apparently Obama, overall, is a bump up ahead of Bush in deportations (slightly), but he contradicts his deportation numbers with his words and other actions. But it's clear he sympathizes with illegal immigrants, and that will only make the problem worse.

You don't sympathize with people trying to get out of a border line failed state?

[Logonov]

Yeah, it is, at least in large part. Our drug policy has destabilized the country.

that country hasnt been stable since its birth, a country that for if im not mistaken the first 100 years had seen less than a total decade of peace time.

[Wells]

that country hasnt been stable since its birth, a country that has been at war more years than it has been at peace.

Depending on your count, you could be talking about the US here.

[Dendrek]

Why exactly is that our responsibility? We have a lot of our own problems.

What's the best way to stop black-market activity: to throw tons of money into law enforcement in a futile attempt to stop that activity completely, or to find alternative solutions that make that activity not worth doing (such as providing legal and safe means for people to obtain what they're seeking)? In America, our immediate response is "stop it completely," even though historically we are NEVER able to achieve that. We would rather stick to our guns and continue using the "tried and failed" method that we are so used to than to even consider that there might be other methods that are more effective and potentially less expensive.

In the case of illegal immigration, I'm not arguing let them come in and be legalized immediately. Nor and I necessarily saying make the legalization process easier to go through. There are potentially solutions outside of those. Worker programs. Federal assistance with infrastructure. Assistance with schooling and curriculum. Lobbying for improved wages and housing conditions. These are just some possible ways we can help improve conditions in Mexico that make it less enticing for them to come here.

There are huge problems just across our boarder, and our only response to that is to make the boarders taller.

[Dacien]

You don't sympathize with people trying to get out of a border line failed state?

I do, but not to the point of compromising our borders and our laws.

[Wells]

I do, but not to the point of compromising our borders and our laws.

So why do you wield the claim as a weapon against the president?

[Catta]

I do, but not to the point of compromising our borders and our laws.

But they are breaking your laws because they are fleeing said borderline failed state and the legal way is slow and on a quota is it not?

[KDSwain]

I know many of you have waited patiently for my opinion on this matter. Your wait is now rewarded.

The immigration problem is not going to be easily solved and would take several years to be implemented. Both sides of the political spectrum need to give. We CANNOT do ANYTHING until the border is secured. I'm not sure of the legal procedures for the US Military to be used but we can at the very least have National Guard troops on the border until a wall can be built. Once the border is secured, we must go very hard on businesses that hire illegals. Fines should be so severe that many businesses and their owners would be financially ruined. At the same time, there are many who have been here nearly their whole lives. I'm not sure it would be feasible to simply return them to their country of origin. I would support them receiving a 10 year work permit that would allow them to apply for citizenship once that permit expires as long as they have a clean criminal record. As an illegal, you would get there, but not nearly as fast as someone who followed the laws to become a citizen.

[Catta]

There are some problems you can't just throw money at. Mexico requires a complete overhaul and scrubbing out. So many politicians and law enforcement personnel are corrupt that there's no way anything will ever get done without a complete overhaul. just my two cents.

And something like that is simply not a task we can accomplish short of invading Mexico.

Wait wait wait. I remember you saying "I have not yet come across a problem that could not be solved or severely lessened by throwing money at it"

[KDSwain]

btw...here is my real fear of the open US/Mexico border. This is one we caught, how many have gotten across the border and are here plotting against us? This is the real danger of the border; not lettuce pickers, dishwashers and roofers.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan...leric-20110127

[mistuhbull]

Its OK If You're A Republican - would be my guess

---------- Post added 2012-06-28 at 01:24 AM ----------



Italian, eh?
I would be scared shitless to drive a car and even more a moped in Italy. You guys are effin nuts!

I haven't ever been to Italy, but i'll tell you this, Italians aint got shit on Israelis for being crazy drivers.

Crossing the street in US: look left, look right, look left, walk across
Crossing in Israel: Look left, look right, look left, look right, pray, look left, look right, sprint and hope you don't get run over

[Spectral]

I agree with most of what you say. The wall thing's a bit weird though. Not sure what that will do exactly, except let us rival China in terms of really long, really tall walls.

If we're going to build a mostly pointless, symbolic wall, I say we drop sufficient cash to break every wall record that the Great Wall holds. Fuck it, at least it's pseudo-stimulatory.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 08:46 PM ----------

Well, if he calls that in, he can indeed verify my citizenship using it. Or green-card, or whatever ID was used to get said license. He's not going to ask me to find my birth certificate and/or SS card, but someone who got an ID/DL with their green card will most likely get asked to produce that, too.

I can't speak to your experiences (obviously) or policy as a more general matter, but when my Korean ex was pulled over in the US, she wasn't asked for any additional documentation other than her license.

[KDSwain]

Who are you and what have you done with the normally hyper-partisan KDSwain?

I am not hyper-partisan. I hold ALL politicians and bureaucrats with the same disdain. They are all the scum of the earth.

My dream is that some day I don't really know who the President, my Senators or my US Reps are because they don't even matter.

[Catta]

btw...here is my real fear of the open US/Mexico border. This is one we caught, how many have gotten across the border and are here plotting against us? This is the real danger of the border; not lettuce pickers, dishwashers and roofers.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan...leric-20110127

What will prevent them from bribing foreign airport security and hijack a foreign plane on its way to the US and then fly it into a building?
You cant protect yourselves against every lone wolf but those who actually plot against you can be picked up by your very comprehensive and invasive intelligence agencies.

[Wells]

I am not hyper-partisan. I hold ALL politicians and bureaucrats with the same disdain. They are all the scum of the earth.

My dream is that some day I don't really know who the President, my Senators or my US Reps are because they don't even matter.

You know this makes them more likely to be awful not better right?