[MoP] Misc Demonology Notes

[Grubjuice]

The datamined info makes it sound like RoF is gone for demo, is that wrong?

Well the tooltip is contradictory. In the upper right corner it says Affliction and Destruction
but it has one tooltip description for Affliction/Demonology and another for Destruction.

this sort of ambiguity is pretty par for the course.

[Jessicka]

Does it work properly on terrain differences now?

Raid and dungeon encounters are flat, it's unlikely to make any difference. Similarly as are areas in BGs such as flag rooms, capture points etc where you expect to actually use AoE in RBGs. Arenas too, although they have levels are similarly flat, but also tend not to be places where you'd use such AoE anyway. It shouldn't be an issue.

[darthades]

Funny how the beta class forum is filled with destro/aff feedback and zero demo toughts, people have already been conditioned from years that demo is a worthless unfun spec and wont even bother to touch it.

Anyone else feel shadowflame is too short on 6 seconds duration? it is way too annoying to maintain, even aff feels smoother.

Also i think we should push for shadowbolt to be 2 seconds cast like all the other nukes, 2.5 is too much considering it also hits like a wet noddle.

Is there a way to make a macro for doom -> out-of-meta in one GCD? this is incredibly annoying and clunky too.

[CDShaidar]

Is there a way to make a macro for doom -> out-of-meta in one GCD? this is incredibly annoying and clunky too.

#showtooltip Corruption (for some odd coding reason it has to be this and not Doom to show the tool tip when in meta...)
/cast Doom
/cancelaura Metamorphosis

[Grubjuice]

Anyone else feel shadowflame is too short on 6 seconds duration? it is way too annoying to maintain, even aff feels smoother..

i don't think it's supposed to be maintained.

[Jessicka]

Funny how the beta class forum is filled with destro/aff feedback and zero demo toughts, people have already been conditioned from years that demo is a worthless unfun spec and wont even bother to touch it.

Anyone else feel shadowflame is too short on 6 seconds duration? it is way too annoying to maintain, even aff feels smoother.

Also i think we should push for shadowbolt to be 2 seconds cast like all the other nukes, 2.5 is too much considering it also hits like a wet noddle.

Is there a way to make a macro for doom -> out-of-meta in one GCD? this is incredibly annoying and clunky too.

Demo has been a viable and useful raiding spec since Ulduar. In Firelands it was, for most encounters the best suited spec to use. It's problem is that it's been very gimmicky, relying more on gaming mechanics than it's own design to put out numbers; to a point that is enjoyable, but it does require more involvement than pretty much every other spec out there - that makes it underperform for many and thus unenjoyable. I don't think it's funny it's ended up that, it's pretty sad because once you've got to grips with it, it is actually great fun.

Shadowflame, is maintained by keeping HoG on cooldown for the most part so it's not 'difficult', nor is it clunky, though the added flexibility of charges does make the snare and it's AoE capacity actually useful. That's a very positive change, but it's also situational which means it's actually more often an afterthought than not.

Shadow Bolt is fine at 2.5s.

[Grubjuice]

#showtooltip Corruption
/cast Doom
/cancelaura Metamorphosis

I assume the /cast Doom line forces you into meta? why add the cancelaura to the macro when you might want to put doom on 2 or 3 targets at the start of a fight?
you could just have a /cast Doom macro, and have your meta toggle in a convenient location.

you could also do:
/cast [nostance] Metamorphosis
/cast Doom
/cancelaura [mod] Metamorphosis

[darthades]

Shadow Bolt is fine at 2.5s.

Why?

It hits like a wet noddle compared to even 2 seconds casts spells from other classes, it is extremely underwhelming having the longest cast time nuke hitting for nothing, this is one reason demo is the most unpopular spec in the game, they only invite them because of their buff.

At 2 seconds people still get the full benefit from bloodlust.

Even arcane blast that hits like a nuclear bomb has recently been changed to 2 seconds cast.

The only reason i think you can come is "because is different" and "special snowflake thingy", i think at this point players have learned that there are many other "meaningful" ways to make specs different instead of random clumsy properties.

[CDShaidar]

Shadowflame, is maintained by keeping HoG on cooldown for the most part so it's not 'difficult', nor is it clunky, though the added flexibility of charges does make the snare and it's AoE capacity actually useful. That's a very positive change, but it's also situational which means it's actually more often an afterthought than not.

Eh, with it's stacking mechanic and sub 1 second tick rate with haste, it'll be extremely frustrating to maximize the double stacking by threading that last tick window in anything but perfect latency.

[Jessicka]

It hits like a wet noddle compared to even 2 seconds casts spells from other classes, it is extremely underwhelming having the longest cast time nuke hitting for nothing, this is one reason demo is the most unpopular spec in the game, they only invite them because of their buff.

This is an incredibly bold statement. I very much doubt that reducing that cast time to 2, or 1.5 seconds would cause people to flood to the spec.

The reason it doesn't hit hard is because we have a number of other damage sources to manage, it's purely down to the distribution of output. Arcane Blast can hit as hard as it does because there's essentially nowhere else for the damage to come from. I don't know a single Mage however who actually enjoys that spec to any great degree, and play it purely and simply because of its output. And while we're on the subject of Mages, Fireball has a 2.5s cast time and there's no shortage of them around.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 05:00 PM ----------

Eh, with it's stacking mechanic and sub 1 second tick rate with haste, it'll be extremely frustrating to maximize the double stacking by threading that last tick window in anything but perfect latency.

And lose MC procs? Also, they're removing the rolling effect on it.

[CDShaidar]

I assume the /cast Doom line forces you into meta? why add the cancelaura to the macro when you might want to put doom on 2 or 3 targets at the start of a fight?
you could just have a /cast Doom macro, and have your meta toggle in a convenient location.

you could also do:
/cast [nostance] Metamorphosis
/cast Doom
/cancelaura [mod] Metamorphosis

because he asked for a macro to do Doom -> out of meta in once gcd? not into then doom, then out?

[Grubjuice]

because he asked for a macro to do Doom -> out of meta in once gcd? not into then doom, then out?

yeah but why would anyone want to do that?

[CDShaidar]

And lose MC procs?

I'm pretty sure ~.08*damage gain of an MC proc is < the ~double damage (appears to only double the damage from SP not base 3285->6380 at 90 in my random gear) of the stacked SF

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 04:06 PM ----------

yeah but why would anyone want to do that?

I didn't think about his question too heavily maybe he wanted a way to end some specific cast sequence in meta with a doom and cancel aura?

[darthades]

[/COLOR]

yeah but why would anyone want to do that?

In PvP it is what you would want 99% of the time, there are times when casting doom is not even worth. You dont doom multiple targets in PvP since it costs fury, used for burst. Doom is not a very effeicient PvP dot for obvious reasons.

[Grubjuice]

I guess your just supposed to cast fel flame in PvP and hope for the best.

[darthades]

This is an incredibly bold statement. I very much doubt that reducing that cast time to 2, or 1.5 seconds would cause people to flood to the spec.

The reason it doesn't hit hard is because we have a number of other damage sources to manage, it's purely down to the distribution of output. Arcane Blast can hit as hard as it does because there's essentially nowhere else for the damage to come from. I don't know a single Mage however who actually enjoys that spec to any great degree, and play it purely and simply because of its output. And while we're on the subject of Mages, Fireball has a 2.5s cast time and there's no shortage of them around.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 05:00 PM ----------


And lose MC procs? Also, they're removing the rolling effect on it.

Yes arcaneblast hits hard because it is basically their only source, but the example is a relation of cast-time per power.
Even arcane blast is getting changed to 2 seconds in mop.

Fireball hits hard, much harder than shadowbolt, it doesnt feel bad having the long cast time.
Fire Mages also have insane mobility with scorch, so the long cast time is not that crippling for their dps.
And fireball is getting changed 2.2 seconds.

You havent stated any reasons for the massive long cast time, bloodlust? snowflake? flavor? why?

If people have ignored the issue until now is because Demonology warlocks are in "danger of extinction", and currently (cata) they dont voice "anything", positive or negative

[Grubjuice]

[/COLOR]

In PvP it is what you would want 99% of the time, there are time where casting doom is not even worth. You dont doom multiple targets in PvP since it costs fury, used for burst. Doom is not a very effeicient PvP dot for obvious reasons.

ok but, if you are not using Doom in pvp then why do you need a macro for it?
i am trying to simulate out the scenario in my head. describe the scenario where you are in meta already, you want to cast Doom and then want to cancel meta at the same time you cast Doom.

[darthades]

ok but, if you are not using Doom in pvp then why do you need a macro for it?
i am trying to simulate out the scenario in my head. describe the scenario where you are in meta already, you want to cast Doom and then want to cancel meta at the same time you cast Doom.

If you are on meta you hit corruption which gets transfomed into doom. If you are in caster form, you hit the doom macro, a separate keybind.

[Grubjuice]

Fireball hits hard, much harder than shadowbolt, it doesnt feel bad having the long cast time.
Fire Mages also have insane mobility with scorch, so the long cast time is not that crippling for their dps.
And fireball is getting changed 2.2 seconds.

SB has to be balanced against Metamorphosis
Fireball is always fireball.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 12:30 PM ----------

If you are on meta you hit corruption which gets transfomed into doom. If you are in caster form, you hit the doom macro, a separate keybind.

ok i think I get it,

so you are in meta and you want to cast corruption on a target but you can't because corruption has become 'Doom' so you need to cancel meta so you can cast corruption.

In that case you want:
/cancelaura Metamorphosis
/cast Corruption

the line that cancels the Meta aura has to come before the line that casts corruption.
and if you are in caster form and want to apply Doom (which something that you would want to do in PvE) you need a line that puts you into Meta first and then a line thats casts doom.

in that case you use a second macro:
/cast [nostance] Metamorphosis
/cast Corruption

[darthades]

SB has to be balanced against Metamorphosis
Fireball is always fireball.

That is the point, if warlocks have so many extra sources of damage.

Why do their main nuke needs to have the LONGEST CAST TIME IN MOP + lowest dpct? it is awful design and one of the main reasons the spec is so unpopular in PVP/PvE.