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  1. #1841
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    Hey guys below is our guilds Ultraxion Log from last week. We ran out of time on heroics for the week and had to switch it down to normal. That said this was the week of our DPS competition and we were all preparing heavily for it. I'm asking if you guys could check out what I did and offer any suggestions and also I wanted to ask a few things about Warlord.

    Much appreciated!

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-09...?s=7808&e=8015

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Rannoch/simple
    As for demo and it's up and down on the meters, you can view us somewhat like arcane mages. With meta we go PEWPEWPEW, then without meta we're just pew..pew. The longer a fight goes, the lower our dps gets because the overall amount of time we're in meta keeps decreasing. Looking at where you popped meta and the time length of the fight, you were about where you're getting close to meta being ready again, but then the fight ended. After our meta, our dps # steadily declines until we pop meta again. So you were at your lowest dps point just when the fight was ending :/ If it had lasted another 30s to a minute ish, you probably would have had meta to pop and would have come out on top. Or if the fight had ended soon after your second meta, you would have been far out on top as well. Simming also =/= actual combat. If you simmed patchwork, well patchwork is not ultraxion. When you simmed it, the fight length might have been different. And simming is the average of thousands of fight runs, which include many that are higher than the average and many that are lower than the average.

    Gear first. For all the specs, the mastery/run speed is the way to go. If you're purely demo and refuse to get the run speed, then get the mastery. If you're super always purely demo, then int/mastery orange gems is the way to go. Eventually you can get multiple sets of a piece and have them gemmed differently for afflic and demo, because it gets pretty expensive if you try swapping gems every time you change specs. But if you run affliction often, sticking with int/haste won't hurt, just won't help with demo. Get +20 stats to chest, it's not expensive and yes it's worth it. Imo, no excuse to not have bis enchants, unless it's the start of a new tier and the epic enchant mats are still like 10k cuz no one DE's an epic at the start xD

    Talent wise, Demonic Aegis >>>>> Master Summoner. So swap that 2/2 point in MS for 2/2 into DA.

    Looking at Ultrax for any bigger mistakes first.

    You're opener is slightly off. You did immo > corruption > BoD, and you didn't soulburn until after those. Soulburn needs to be cast before dotting, and you dot Immo > BoD > Corruption. Everything else in the opener looked fine. Your dot uptimes were good, Corruption needs a tiny bit of work and Shadowflame needs to be cast on CD every time, not just most of the time.

    You're overclipping BoD. BoD is only clipped when Buffs present > Previous buffs when cast. Simply put, if you put BoD up with Meta, don't clip it when you don't have meta. Never clip your first BoD since it is amazin (lots of procs and DS:Felguard and meta). When in doubt, don't clip.

    Your doomguard was a little weak. Unlucky RNG gave only a 2s window of opportunity for the optimal time to pop it, but you didn't pop it until 5s after that which shows to me you didn't realize when the perfect time to pop it is. The optimal time to pop the doom guard for most fights is during the opener, when you have as many procs proccing (power torrent, lightweave, WoU stacks) while your pre-pot is still active. In your case, You had Power torrent and Volcanic Destruction (DMC:V) procced at the same time for ~2s before Power Torrent faded. Sometimes it's a small window, sometimes it's huge, and sometime's you don't have a window. If PT and DMC:V aren't procced at the same time, popping doomguard during DMC:V is better than during PT (1600 int vs 500 int).

    If you want to get a bit fancier, it is beneficial to recast BoD when you summon your doomguard at it's best time as well. But, if you clip that BoD, you're basically wasting the benefit of rebuffing it in the first place.

    Look at warmaster, you're multidotting is pretty low for the first set of adds, only multidotting one melee and one drake. The second set was better, but didn't get them out as fast on each of them. The third would have been the best, but you didn't get corruption up on a drake as it flew over. And in all cases you didn't get dots up on both drakes as they flew over. Affliction makes multidotting a lot easier on this fight, and more fun imo lol. And rocket fuel leak

    For warlord, again, shadowflame on CD as well as all I said for Ultrax. As for doomguard popping, it's after the last time you expect the ball to hit the boss, assuming the doomguard dies before the boss does. You have to completely judge it by how you're group seems to be able to kill it each time.

    As for heroic, expect minimal time on the boss during the black phase as a ranged. You each should be assigned an add or two, and you should think about it as this: Faster I kill my specified adds, the faster I can get back on the boss and do a shit ton more of dps. Affliction or destro is definitely the way you should go for heroic. If you were specified one add only, I'd say destro because it can burst a single target add. But since you're designated to hit three adds, I'd say affliction. If worrying about dots on the boss is hurting you, then don't do it. If anything, make sure you've refreshed your dots on the boss just before you go off to your adds, at least then you'll have left with a fresh set on him. As for pet management, if your focus is the farthest one away, send him straight to that. If you can kill it without your pet, keep him on zon.

    I also don't know a lot about boomkins, but I know how to track dots. Looking at the 2min+ fights, it wasn't until try #7 that I saw any multidotting. He should also be using solar beam on the eyes, and you can spell lock them too with the felhunter to reduce the damage they deal out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-15 at 07:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by wisredz View Post
    Hello, after a long break I decided to activate my account again and thought I'd drop by here to ask for a little help. For a long time I only played as an affliction warlock unless asked specifically to play as another spec. So after about a one year break, I'm back to the game and apparently demo is the best spec out there followed closely by affliction. However try as I might I can break the 25k barrier. Perhaps that's because I'm not used to demo just yet but still, I would have expected better. I've read past posts in this thread and it appears to me that I'm not doing so bad with dots and all. I'm not actively raiding so I've done a single ultraxion kill earlier today and I thought I'd post it here of reference.

    WoL: worldoflogs.com/reports/qdsoau7xpty1g568
    Armory: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/earthen-ring/Cracks/simple

    PS: I think I should mention my reforges since mastery is better than haste for demo. I've been demo specced for a couple of days only so all my reforges are to get as much haste as possible (for affliction). Enchants aren't the best either but that's only because the items are very prone to be replaced right now.

    Thank you very much in advance.
    Welcome back then! Personally I just deactivated my account :x But luckily nothing changes until MoP stuff.

    All three specs are actually balanced to be pretty equal. The difference comes down to fight mechanics and skill, and sometimes a bit of luck. Where you might see someone ranked on demo as #1 being >>>> to #1 afflic for ultrax, it's because they got 2 metas in a 2min fight (getting lucky and making meta a <1min CD instead of a 2-3min CD).

    As for your gear, Foul Gift of the Demon Lord (FGDL) is a crappy trinket for all specs. If you can get your hands on a DMC:V, that'll be one of the best next to DS trinkets. The 50 int to bracers is the enchant you'll want for those when you deem they're enchantable, which is really any ilvl 378+ imo, as well as mastery/run speed to boots and greater mastery to gloves for demo. Also Power Torrent to the weapon. And don't forget your helm enchant!

    As for the logs. You're opener is slightly off. The general opener for demo is pre-pot> pre-cast Shadow Bolt or Incinerate (based on demo spec) > combat > CoE (if needed) > Meta/DS:Felguard + Felstorm when pet in range > Activate Soulburn > Immolate > BoD > Corruption > HoG > Shadowflame (if in melee range) > Filler (shadow bolt or Incinerate based on spec). And the moment feltsorm ends (38s left on the CD, or when he stops spinning), use the activated soulburn to summon the felhunter.

    You did Corruption > BoD > Immolate, and you waited too long to swap to the felhunter. The felguard got in several regular melee attacks before he was swapped out. Shadowflaming was amazing, keep at that. Soulburn can be held off until you actually swap pets since you don't have 4pc, but it'd be good practice for now to do it before dots since it will eventually give you a buff.

    BoD was done appropriately, not clipped when it shouldn't have been. Though you could have refreshed it during the third meta, but it's fine if you don't. The important part is not clipping a buffed meta, which you did correctly.

    Your doomguard was very weak. 250k for demo is very very low. Some of it is because of the lack of higher gear and proccing enchants (like PT) to pop it with, but you still need to make sure you pop it at the optimal time. The optimal time to pop the doom guard for most fights is during the opener, when you have as many procs proccing (power torrent, lightweave, WoU stacks) while your pre-pot is still active.

    Looks like most of your problems are fine tuning a few things, definitely several gear related issues (PvP and spirit gear), and having the better enchants (they do a lot more in your dmg than people generally think).

  2. #1842
    1. Going paragraph by paragraph. Well much appreciated this awesome response. I just had a few questions. Thanks for confirming the feeling/results of DEMO being so up and down. With that in mind should you be using DEMO on CD as much as possible (I assume this is an obvious yes). But are there ever fights where holding it is worth more say Warlord for the 100% dmg and if so how much time should you wait before it is a big dps loss?

    2. Will get these upgrades and also noticing my competition had put all +50 gems in his, time to put the +50 in at least my 397 pieces, but those boys are really expensive on my server. On the +20, I'll get that if its within a reasonable price, but I wanted to at least get a 397 first. Just cause I'm low on cash. But trust me I'm a guy that agrees with min/maxing and what not. I did the dailies for MWC when I mainspecced Affliction just in case I ever went Demo...lol glad I did heh. And also ran the 5mans like crazy for that week getting mastery pieces when I found out about that mastery gear swap heh.

    Talent wise, Demonic Aegis >>>>> Master Summoner. So swap that 2/2 point in MS for 2/2 into DA.

    3. Will do on the talent swap any suggestions for the extra point? I typically have never used the trinket talent for the demon?

    4. For the opener I had only did BoD last hoping I got more procs in case I didn't have time to overwrite it a second time for more spellpower etc. Is it a huge dps loss for say 1 proc and BoD with DS vs. couple procs and DS? Or if it gets close don't worry about overwriting? As for what needs work for Corruption should I clip that with big spellpower buffs? Or just wait till its about to expire?

    5. For clipping BoD understood I was probably definitely overclipping. My next question would be would you consider clipping the last one under 14 secs if you got great spellpower procs? Or would you just left it fall of completely and just overwrite the new one when you got a better hand?

    6. On the Doomguard I knew when to pop it but I guess I misunderstood the mechanic. I know my Doomguard snapshots stats. Does it also snapshot my Meta and do the Meta dmg the whole time? I was thinking that I would want to get my DG out as fast as possible after a reasonable amount of procs because I thought I'd waste 5 or more secs of Meta time with no DG up...If he just snapshots my Meta then yeah I should wait until the last possible second for the most procs...Also for Immolation Aura is it better to wate for the big spellpower one or try to get in 2? I've been going for the big spellpower buff lately, after reading some guides.

    7. For MultiDotting as Demo should you do Immo/Corruption on everything first and then tab back for Agony and how long would it have to live for Agony to be worth it? So far I've just tried to put up all 3 and move on?

    For warlord, again, shadowflame on CD as well as all I said for Ultrax. As for doomguard popping, it's after the last time you expect the ball to hit the boss, assuming the doomguard dies before the boss does. You have to completely judge it by how you're group seems to be able to kill it each time.

    8. So your saying just pop in when I think I'll get the full duration out of it? And on this fight you would use MWC I would guess to pop for that?

    Lastly, I remember I have my snypase springs just macroed to shadowbolt but I notice I get a CD on it with other trinkets etc when used. Am I losing a ton of DPS on Doomguard by missing that one buff or in general is it fine? I think its just when I have MWC equipped and when I gearswap its usually fine and up when I need it but I notice when I run MWC its harder to line up...Also usually didn't precast a SB because of the CD of it.

    Much appreciated. I don't expect you to analyze these too much but maybe give a quick opinion. I felt tonight I did great on Morchok and with the shorter fight time I think you can see the gear swap gave me a nice lead. I didn't multi dot bosses were way to far off. I was also having to call the stomps crystals out and still did well. Also Warlord we had to go back to normal but me and the hunter were dead on and I ended the fight with like 25 secs left on meta . Thanks again. Going to fix gems/enchants and work on my rotation more. I think putting into practice these lil things and correcting misconceptions will get me to where I was as Affliction, I'd say without the pet swapping and If I could use the same gear between specs I'd love Demo a bit more heh.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x6...?s=3086&e=3300

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x6...?s=9573&e=9770

    *Also side note any idea what type heals should be going out on Warlord?*

    Again really appreciate this very thorough response I will definitely be putting this into practice. I love being a "Good" lock player and pushing my limits..

    *edit fixed boot enchant, fixed the socket bonus items to +mastery, and went to wow-reforge and redid my reforge for 1993 haste after that mastery reforges. Also put +50 in gloves. Going to see if I can get some more +50 at raid tonight.
    Last edited by rap87; 2012-07-16 at 07:29 AM.

  3. #1843
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    1. Going paragraph by paragraph. Well much appreciated this awesome response. I just had a few questions. Thanks for confirming the feeling/results of DEMO being so up and down. With that in mind should you be using DEMO on CD as much as possible (I assume this is an obvious yes). But are there ever fights where holding it is worth more say Warlord for the 100% dmg and if so how much time should you wait before it is a big dps loss?
    For most fights, yes meta on CD or at least wait no more than 15s, except for things like phase transition about to hit where you'd be in meta doing nothing. For a fight like Warlord...it ends up being an on the spot call with how many circumstances there could be. If you're on multiple adds, why demo in the first place? Is it adds going down that's the trouble? then using meta on them would help. If they're no trouble and they will be down within at most 30-45s and back to the boss, you might be able to save it. If you're on the boss and not adds, if the ball will hit him in the next 30-45s then you could save it since you'll be guaranteed boss only attacks.

    There's rarely a definite answer. Your gear also matters a lot too, such as how much haste do you have? Because that increases the chance of ID procs to lower meta, which affects your average meta CD. Generally speaking though, if you hold meta off for longer than a minute, you're probably hurting yourself. And you also want to make sure that when you are popping meta, it's during a damage time, not a running around to the next add time. Sorry I cant give a definitive yes or no, but many things are a on the spot call.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    2. Will get these upgrades and also noticing my competition had put all +50 gems in his, time to put the +50 in at least my 397 pieces, but those boys are really expensive on my server. On the +20, I'll get that if its within a reasonable price, but I wanted to at least get a 397 first. Just cause I'm low on cash. But trust me I'm a guy that agrees with min/maxing and what not. I did the dailies for MWC when I mainspecced Affliction just in case I ever went Demo...lol glad I did heh. And also ran the 5mans like crazy for that week getting mastery pieces when I found out about that mastery gear swap heh.
    If you want to find the perfect mastery set, look into this thread (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...mo+mastery+set) it has the setup of the highest obtainable amount of mastery for a preswap set.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    3. Will do on the talent swap any suggestions for the extra point? I typically have never used the trinket talent for the demon?
    Because the health regen in far superior in terms of progression and survivability than half a second of casting a demon, which you don't have to do as demo unless your pet is dumb (meaning you don't manage him well) and dies more than once every 2 minutes. Even one point in Aura of Foreboding is better than Master Summoner, but that's much more of a personal choice since AoF would only affect adds in a fight. (EDIT: Reread it and it was a "I'll do it" statement but ended with a ? so I though it was "Why do it" lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    4. For the opener I had only did BoD last hoping I got more procs in case I didn't have time to overwrite it a second time for more spellpower etc. Is it a huge dps loss for say 1 proc and BoD with DS vs. couple procs and DS? Or if it gets close don't worry about overwriting? As for what needs work for Corruption should I clip that with big spellpower buffs? Or just wait till its about to expire?

    5. For clipping BoD understood I was probably definitely overclipping. My next question would be would you consider clipping the last one under 14 secs if you got great spellpower procs? Or would you just left it fall of completely and just overwrite the new one when you got a better hand?
    Rolled these into one.
    You do BoD before Corruption because it has a higher DPET in the opening rotation. Recasting it later with tons of procs also leads to 5 buffed procs. It's not going to be a 5k dps difference if you don't, but it can mean the difference in terms of a rank or for those really close meter races. As for corruption, you don't really need to micro manage and refresh it at those point, but you do not let it fall off. Always clip corruption just before the last tick. However, whenever you pop a lot of CDs (like meta), do refresh corruption relatively quickly because that is a difference. Immolate will be update with your next HoG cast, and you would refresh BoD at some point during meta.

    Personally, I like to focus on the fight itself and things, and I only pay attention to the times I'd have Power Torrent and Lightweave rolling together to refresh BoD, or if I was Demo I'd 90% of the time do it at the start of meta, then once again before meta falls off (which gives 6-7 meta buffed BoD ticks). Micromanaging your buffs like this is not always easy. Easier route is to make sure you put up BoD at the start of each meta and between the 30s mark on BoD and before meta falls off again, don't clip it otherwise. If you do notice an example like question 5, you clip it. When you put a fresh BoD up, it will have 4 ticks (45s, 30s, 15s, 0s), but when you clip a BoD, it will have 5 ticks (1min, 45s, 30s, 15s, 0s).

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    6. On the Doomguard I knew when to pop it but I guess I misunderstood the mechanic. I know my Doomguard snapshots stats. Does it also snapshot my Meta and do the Meta dmg the whole time? I was thinking that I would want to get my DG out as fast as possible after a reasonable amount of procs because I thought I'd waste 5 or more secs of Meta time with no DG up...If he just snapshots my Meta then yeah I should wait until the last possible second for the most procs...Also for Immolation Aura is it better to wate for the big spellpower one or try to get in 2? I've been going for the big spellpower buff lately, after reading some guides.
    The doomguard snapshots your int, haste rating (not %, meaning it doesn't benefit from lust/hero, but it does benefit from ICM), mastery (maybe), spellpower. He does not snapshot your % damage from your meta. It doesn't matter how fast you get your doomguard out, it matters when you get him out. And that when is at the point where you have the best procs procced. It's not the last possible second, I usually find it within the first 15s of the fight that I have both PT/LW, and then I just wait to get as many WoU stacks before one falls off.

    For Immolation Aura, you pop it in the same manner as the doomguard. ICD trackers make it easier to know when the procs will proc again for the second/third/etc meta. Rule of thumb, if 20s of meta have gone by without a proc, go ahead and use immo aura so that you don't waste any of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    7. For MultiDotting as Demo should you do Immo/Corruption on everything first and then tab back for Agony and how long would it have to live for Agony to be worth it? So far I've just tried to put up all 3 and move on?
    For agony to be worth it, they'd have to live for it's full duration (most of it's damage is dealt at the end). Unless you're affliction, I usually don't find BoA worth it for myself. But always dot Immo/Corruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    8. So your saying just pop in when I think I'll get the full duration out of it? And on this fight you would use MWC I would guess to pop for that?
    Sort of. You pop it as late into the fight you can, as long as you get a full duration. Another reason for skipping BoA as demo, because if it's during a black phase then your doomguard will spend half the time running around to get in ranged of BoA targets. And no to using MWC for popping Doomguard. MWC is for meta. If it happens to be at the same time, then cool beans. I can't find the thread from long ago where it was stated how exactly mastery (as a stat) affects the doomguard, sorry. But the biggest things that affect the doomguard are int and haste rating.


    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    Lastly, I remember I have my snypase springs just macroed to shadowbolt but I notice I get a CD on it with other trinkets etc when used. Am I losing a ton of DPS on Doomguard by missing that one buff or in general is it fine? I think its just when I have MWC equipped and when I gearswap its usually fine and up when I need it but I notice when I run MWC its harder to line up...Also usually didn't precast a SB because of the CD of it.
    Whenever you use an on use trinket/gear piece/tinker, it puts all other on use trinkets/gear piece/tinkers on CD for 30s. You have two options: 1) Easier and raid friendly route: just deal with the fact your first tinker use is delayed. Yea it'll mean your doomguard isn't as maxed buff as possible since it would benefit better from that than MWC. It's not going to kill your dps, but it would mean the difference in 1-2 rank spots and those very close meter races. 2)More specific and raid angry: Have your raid do a 20s countdown. Pop MWC at the start of it, then towards the end of the count down pop meta and swap back into your regular gear and enter combat. This will mean your tinker CD will be ready within 10s of the fight and you can better buff your doomguard, and you still had MWC active for meta. But this is pretty specific, risk wasting MWC if someone yells NOT READY at the last moment, and your raid will be annoyed at waiting for a 20s countdown.

    Either route, you will cast SB as your first damaging spell for the SnF debuff. Dots do NOT auto update to it because blizz is dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    Much appreciated. I don't expect you to analyze these too much but maybe give a quick opinion. I felt tonight I did great on Morchok and with the shorter fight time I think you can see the gear swap gave me a nice lead. I didn't multi dot bosses were way to far off. I was also having to call the stomps crystals out and still did well. Also Warlord we had to go back to normal but me and the hunter were dead on and I ended the fight with like 25 secs left on meta . Thanks again. Going to fix gems/enchants and work on my rotation more. I think putting into practice these lil things and correcting misconceptions will get me to where I was as Affliction, I'd say without the pet swapping and If I could use the same gear between specs I'd love Demo a bit more heh.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x6...?s=3086&e=3300

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x6...?s=9573&e=9770

    *Also side note any idea what type heals should be going out on Warlord?*

    Again really appreciate this very thorough response I will definitely be putting this into practice. I love being a "Good" lock player and pushing my limits..

    *edit fixed boot enchant, fixed the socket bonus items to +mastery, and went to wow-reforge and redid my reforge for 1993 haste after that mastery reforges. Also put +50 in gloves. Going to see if I can get some more +50 at raid tonight.
    Not sure what you meant by the bolded section. If you're questioning why warlord gets healed, that's from his psychic drain move. It deals out 100k+ in front of him, and returns 10x the damage dealt as health. Hence why the tank faces him away from the raid. If it hits the tank, than that's just 1mil returned. If it hits the whole raid, the raid will live, but that's 10mil health he gets back.

    Morchok was pretty nice. You still should be able to at least put one set of dots up on Kohcrom when they first split, after that you just have to yell at your tanks until they finally learn that if that if they phase the bosses towards each other, they're more likely to put crystals in their facing direction, which keeps everyone in ranged. Just don't get too in ranged, or you'll take stomps from both

    As for your Heroic Warlord progression. Looks like you're struggling with deaths from the adds and your tank keeps getting hit by the void. As for the tank thing, you guys can't have the ranged group too close to the boss or the void will become "hitable" within range of the tank. On the same note, tank needs to be away of this too and pull him back. The two spacings I've done is having the boss sit on the claw spawn point from after the first black phase and for the rest of the fight, with the ranged group either in the middle of the water pool or about where you stack for normal, just facing the claw point.

    As for healing, is it not enough heals? Not enough damage to the adds? All but one, maybe two adds should be dead within 5s of the black phase ending, and the last one dying off at the latest when the ball forms. Boomkin needs to step it up on damage too. If the adds are dying like that, then it's more of a healer issue (though the adds can certainly die faster), and if that's the case it may be a strat issue with who's in range and when for heals. Also, is your priest going oom a lot?

  4. #1844
    Graceful you are definitely the man. This has helped me tremedonsly. Just knowing these specifics and clearing up the confusion for me is going to take my dps to the next lvl.

    Clarifying again, I think the tooltip for Meta just jacked me up. I believe it says increases your dmg and your pet. I just assumed the Doomguard was a Pet but I guess he's a "Guardian". So much like Affliction he will do w/e dmg he's going to do just based on Int, and Haste %. I will pop him with the most procs present. For me I'm using Kneed to Know with procs and ICDs. I will just basically wait until the last sec of Volcanic Destruction waiting on Power Torrent/Synapse and pop the bad boy. Defintely cool to find out Meta/DG didn't matter as mucha s I though it did in my opener takes some stress off.

    Thanks for the Multi Dot advice I'll def do more dps just using Immo/Corr saving GCDs if Agony isn't that big of a deal.

    I'll let you know on the Heroic fights. We're a guild that raided succesfully Heroics/Glory end of ICC with a buff and then made it all the way to Nef on Normal first tier cata raids before we fell apart there. We then raided SWTOR NiM modes, but obviously easier raiding scene there, and just returned. So we're a bit behind the curve for a few people and atm having some reintroduction pains and or having to become more hardcore than casual at this point with people. Not sure if its DPS or Heals. It's looking like heals mostly but our druid needs to pick it up some as well.

    Lastly thank you very much I very much appreciate getting knowledgeable responses to these types of questions. Always awesome to clarify stuff like this that will take your DPS up! Definitely excited to go burn it on the bosses.

    I think for the precast shadow bolt I'll just make 2 macros one without the snypase springs...But atm I think it's been fine cause I've been doing gear swaps with the MWC with a countdown timer so it's been working out atm. In MoP is this shadowflame crap fixed?

    So you go with 3 Meta Buffed Dots. Does having DS or not on that make a diff to you or the Spellpowers used? Or in general after that first super one is a Meta buffed one going to be the best every time?
    Last edited by rap87; 2012-07-16 at 09:40 PM.

  5. #1845
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    I think for the precast shadow bolt I'll just make 2 macros one without the snypase springs...But atm I think it's been fine cause I've been doing gear swaps with the MWC with a countdown timer so it's been working out atm. In MoP is this shadowflame crap fixed?

    So you go with 3 Meta Buffed Dots. Does having DS or not on that make a diff to you or the Spellpowers used? Or in general after that first super one is a Meta buffed one going to be the best every time?
    Last I bothered to look at shadowflame, it was demo only while in meta and was ginormous. But that was a while ago. Honestly, I don't follow MoP stuff because I won't be playing in MoP. I don't even play now lol, but things aren't changing yet. But they are doing something to it.

    Depends on the DS. DS:Felguard matters to us, hence why you don't clip the last tick your first BoD. The first one will be your biggest 95% of every fight, unless stars align a second time to give you meta + DS + all procs, and you've pet swapped back to the felguard for some reason.

    As for DS:Felhunter, it's just buffed periodic shadow damage. So while it's still shadow damage, our periodic shadow damage isn't buffed a lot in the first place like affliction, so you can't consider the effects equal between the specs. A DS:Felhunter buffed BoD beats a non buffed BoD. A meta buffed BoD beats a DS:Felhunter BoD. As for how a PT buffed BoD, a Volcanic Destruction buffed BoD, and a PT/Volcanic Destruction buffed BoD compared to a DS:Felhunter BoD, I don't know. Never bothered to do that math. Personally I play it by ear, if I know the BoD is unbuffed then I'll clip with a DS:Felhunter buffed one. If I know it's buffed with two procs (PT/LW), I'll just wait until it falls off to recast it with a fresh BoD or unless meta comes off CD soon then I'll pop it with meta and refresh whatever BoD is up there.

    I know it gets pretty complicated, hence why they call it micromanaging. So like I said, when in doubt, don't clip.

    Just remember that for whatever you do end up doing with DS:Felhunter, it does NOT go into effect until dots are refreshed. Same with all other CDs you pop.

  6. #1846
    Alright, all my questions have been answered. Thanks again. Very sad you aren't playing in MoP sounds like the Warlock community is losing a great player . Also that being said, thanks for taking the time to help me out your not even playing and aren't in MoP. Very nice thing to do sir. Thanks again and gluck hope you return!

  7. #1847
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    Ok So I am a Destro lock and something just does not seem right. I should be doing alot more dmg than I currently am. I understand the spell priorites. Not sure if its a scaling issue or is it just a Wall that Destuction hits at a certain gear lv. Please take a look and tell me if you see anything out of place. I sit at dummy for hours and just cant figure out why my dmg is not higher than it is. On a dummy self buffed I avg out around 30 - 32k depending on procs.

    WoL: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7kz4ytxuc8rlqnnp/details/31/
    Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/silver-hand/Xanuri/simple

  8. #1848
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanuri View Post
    Ok So I am a Destro lock and something just does not seem right. I should be doing alot more dmg than I currently am. I understand the spell priorites. Not sure if its a scaling issue or is it just a Wall that Destuction hits at a certain gear lv. Please take a look and tell me if you see anything out of place. I sit at dummy for hours and just cant figure out why my dmg is not higher than it is. On a dummy self buffed I avg out around 30 - 32k depending on procs.

    WoL: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7kz4ytxuc8rlqnnp/details/31/
    Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/silver-hand/Xanuri/simple
    Looking at Ultraxion and Morchok:
    Watch your DoT uptimes (80% uptime on Immolate and BoD on Ultraxion), you're missing Shadowflame, Conflagrate more (22 Conflags on Ultraxion in a 4:02 fight is an 11s interval on an 8s spell), line your DoTs/DG up with procs (1.5k DPS for your DG on Ultraxion is very low), keep your ISF up (36.1% on Morchok).

  9. #1849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    Looking at Ultraxion and Morchok:
    Watch your DoT uptimes (80% uptime on Immolate and BoD on Ultraxion), you're missing Shadowflame, Conflagrate more (22 Conflags on Ultraxion in a 4:02 fight is an 11s interval on an 8s spell), line your DoTs/DG up with procs (1.5k DPS for your DG on Ultraxion is very low), keep your ISF up (36.1% on Morchok).
    Is there anything else I can do with enchants or reforging. I think I am pretty up to date where that is concerned. Also thank you for the comments on the dot uptimes. The only problem with H Morchok is there is ALOT of movment. DO you have any tips to maybe have that up time better?

  10. #1850
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanuri View Post
    Is there anything else I can do with enchants or reforging. I think I am pretty up to date where that is concerned. Also thank you for the comments on the dot uptimes. The only problem with H Morchok is there is ALOT of movment. DO you have any tips to maybe have that up time better?
    More haste. There is no cap for destro, or any of the specs really. People use the word "cap" too literally when it comes to destro and the number 2681.

    2681 is the point that haste generally starts to decrease in value (based on you gear, it might not even decrease, depends on your other stats). If it would a true cap, any haste beyond 2681 is worth 0 in stat weights, but 95% of the time it's still 1.5 or greater. If you even look at the BiS profile on simcraft, the destro profile has 27?? ish haste. This is of course assuming a completely standstill, single target fight.

    So what about fights with heavy movement or adds? The value of haste, one that can't be put into a number so easily, greatly increases with the amount of movement and the number of targets.

    Personally, unless I wanted to just perfect my gear for Ultrax, I ran with 2800-2900 haste as destro for all times. Worked out nice.

    Gear is fine, whenever you can get it, spine gloves and heroic tier shoulders is BiS, but until then it's tier gloves and morchok shoulders just like you have. Greater Mastery to gloves is the correct way to go regardless of what haste you decide. You'll most likely get a bit more bank for your buck if you put a red int gem in that yellow ring socket, generally +10's aren't worth it when we're starting about matching socket bonuses.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 01:06 AM ----------

    The other thing about Morchok is getting a feel for exactly when it matters that you're somewhere. Just because the tank moves your target 5 yards, it doesn't mean you have to immediately stop your casts and move closer. What matters is that you've moved in and are in range for the stomp. After a while you should be able to get a feel for how fast it takes you to get in range of his stomp from your current distance vs the time before that stomp happens. Ofc, you'd rather be there early than miss the stomp. But in the long run it helps you figure out how to cut out some movement.
    Last edited by gracfuldeath; 2012-07-26 at 01:08 AM.

  11. #1851
    Quote Originally Posted by gracfuldeath View Post
    More haste. There is no cap for destro, or any of the specs really. People use the word "cap" too literally when it comes to destro and the number 2681.
    More precisely, destruction uses soft caps (no other spec has a cap as such), meaning that the value of haste greatly increases near the cap (to the point where it is worth sacrificing intellect for it if required) but greatly decreases immediately when you hit the cap, in this case to the point where mastery is worth more.

    This is because (unlike any other spec), gaining extra ticks on immolate will also increase the damage of your conflagrate due to how it is based off of the total damage of immolate. However, haste that does not provide an extra tick will not increase conflagrate damage beyond lowering the GCD on it.

  12. #1852
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inactivity View Post
    More precisely, destruction uses soft caps (no other spec has a cap as such), meaning that the value of haste greatly increases near the cap (to the point where it is worth sacrificing intellect for it if required) but greatly decreases immediately when you hit the cap, in this case to the point where mastery is worth more.

    This is because (unlike any other spec), gaining extra ticks on immolate will also increase the damage of your conflagrate due to how it is based off of the total damage of immolate. However, haste that does not provide an extra tick will not increase conflagrate damage beyond lowering the GCD on it.
    Apologizing in advance if I'm reading this beyond just a more precise description/explanation of the destro and 2681 the haste threshold.

    Just because haste over that threshold does not provide additional conflag damage or extra ticks, doesn't mean it's actual or theoretical value drops to 0 after a threshold. Gear itself has a factor, I can't say this applies to everyone, but personally I've seen sims of my character where haste was at least tied for the highest stat weight after the 2681 rating. (Technically it was the lowered goblin rating). I've also seen where it was second in terms of stat weights. And for this Xanuri, haste being the lowest current value in a quick sim.

    Fights with external factors, such as heavy movement, change stat weights in ways that cannot always be easily measured. From my experience, thinking specifically of HM Morchok being the example asked about, I saw great improvements when I bumped my haste up several notches. (This was during the time where tanks would not listen, and it felt like they were trying to kite the bosses. And by improvements I mean 80% rank limit to 30-50 ranged rank parses around the 5-10% nerf, with no gear changes) It wasn't just randomly bumping up the amount of haste, I did several sims/reforge options for a better fit with higher haste. But for a fight with heavy movement, more haste is how I found improvement. Which is what was asked about.

  13. #1853
    Deleted
    Hi guys,

    Looking for some hints and advice on how to improve my DPS/Damage. I do feel I should be pulling a lot more than I currently am.

    My rotation - Pull, CoE > DS/glove tinker > SB > SS > Haunt > MG.

    Using MG for the duration of Haunt then manually refreshing DOT's if below 10 sec before applying Haunt. MG as filler above 20% and DS below 20% - refreshing DOTs SB>SS.

    The two kills below last night are in Affliction, did have a couple of attempts on Elegon as Destruction. When in this spec my rotation is:

    CoE > Dark Soul /Glove Tinker > Immloate > Conflagrate > Incinerate until two embers then CB. I think am going wrong here in not building up embers, I usually find myself casting CB with 2 embers up. How much do you guys build up before casting CB?

    Links to logs and character.

    Cheers
    Rev


    worldoflogs.com/reports/ls2w8teyw1at88ot/sum/damageDone/?s=1491&e=1799
    worldoflogs.com/reports/ls2w8teyw1at88ot/sum/damageDone/?s=3728&e=4312

    eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/azuremyst/Revlovjoy/advanced

  14. #1854
    Revlov, couple quick gearing things, didn't get a chance to look at logs yet.

    1. spirit does nothing for you. so replace the 600 spirit gem in your helm with hit and try to get a ring without spirit
    2. you should be able to get very close to hit cap without putting that 320 hit gem in a red socket, so if you can, replace that gem with an int gem
    3. on your bracers you want a +170 mastery enchant
    4. ideally you want the mastery/run speed enchant on your boots for progression
    5. you're missing belt buckle, nitro boost, and goblin glider
    6. on your gloves you can put the +170 expertise enchant on there to help you get hit cap, as expertise is essentially the same as hit now
    7. work towards getting 1 of the 2 heroic ilvl trinkets to replace the iron ghostling

    will take a look at the logs later, but i don't play affliction right now so i may not have much info to give

  15. #1855
    Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/c...wv1/details/0/

    Doing 42k dps on a dummy, 5 mins, have low dot upkeep at the end because I was stopping the log.

    I know I could do way more damage(ilevel 466) If you check my log my dot damage ticks are really low especially corruption. My other two guildies locks have my same gear and same rotation/dot upkeep but outdps me by ATLEAST 10k I've been spending sleepless nights trying to understand what I'm doing wrong >_<.
    Last edited by Chaosshadow; 2012-10-09 at 07:04 PM.

  16. #1856
    I've selected some lines from the beginning of your log:

    [03:59:50.259] Xomnus casts Dark Soul: Misery
    [03:59:50.259] Xomnus casts Blood Fury
    [03:59:50.742] Xomnus casts Summon Doomguard on Training Dummy
    [03:59:51.368] Xomnus casts Soulburn
    [03:59:51.935] Xomnus casts Soul Swap on Training Dummy
    [03:59:52.851] Xomnus begins to cast Haunt
    [03:59:53.999] Xomnus casts Malefic Grasp on Training Dummy
    [03:59:56.858] Xomnus casts Malefic Grasp on Training Dummy
    [03:59:59.995] Xomnus begins to cast Haunt
    [04:00:01.474] Xomnus begins to cast Haunt
    [04:00:02.717] Xomnus casts Malefic Grasp on Training Dummy
    [04:00:03.693] Xomnus begins to cast Unstable Affliction
    [04:00:04.872] Xomnus casts Corruption on Training Dummy
    [04:00:05.897] Xomnus casts Malefic Grasp on Training Dummy
    [04:00:08.756] Xomnus casts Malefic Grasp on Training Dummy
    [04:00:11.499] Xomnus casts Malefic Grasp on Training Dummy

    This translates directly to your opener. Some of it is fine - you pop all CDs, SB:SS, Haunt, MG...But then you double up on Haunt, which is obviously a waste of a shard. You channel MG for 1 second, and then you cast UA and Corruption, and then you channel MG, and then your DS runs out. Everything I said after the 'But' is wrong.

    There are a few goals/things you have to keep in mind to get great DPS when you play Affliction:
    1) Every time you stop channeling MG or DS, you are losing DPS.
    2) Whenever Haunt is on the target, you want to be channeling MG the entire time.
    3) Don't waste shards
    4) Extend your procs

    Therefore, don't double Haunt (probably an accident). Time your breaks in between channeling MG so that you refresh most/all of your DoTs, followed by Haunt. Make Haunt the last thing you do before you MG. Don't MG for 1 second and stop. And finally, before your procs and DS/Lust/whatever run out, refresh all your DoTs, and don't refresh them again - wait for them to fall off before you reapply.

  17. #1857
    Mind if I roll need? xskarma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    And finally, before your procs and DS/Lust/whatever run out, refresh all your DoTs, and don't refresh them again - wait for them to fall off before you reapply.
    Even Agony? I'm pretty sure refreshing Agony late and not having to build it to 10 stacks again is better than 1 supercharged tick of Agony and a fresh one from 0 stacks.

  18. #1858
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Even Agony? I'm pretty sure refreshing Agony late and not having to build it to 10 stacks again is better than 1 supercharged tick of Agony and a fresh one from 0 stacks.
    Sorry, yes. Excepting Agony.

  19. #1859
    Need help on my DPS.

    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/17736/


    Really not sure what I am doing wrong.


    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zakia/advanced


    Also having trouble figuring out which trinkets I should use.

    I have the Dark Moon Fair one; Flash Reisn, Elegon Trinket, and Brewfest watch.

  20. #1860
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    I've selected some lines from the beginning of your log:
    There are a few goals/things you have to keep in mind to get great DPS when you play Affliction:
    1) Every time you stop channeling MG or DS, you are losing DPS.
    2) Whenever Haunt is on the target, you want to be channeling MG the entire time.
    3) Don't waste shards
    4) Extend your procs

    Therefore, don't double Haunt (probably an accident). Time your breaks in between channeling MG so that you refresh most/all of your DoTs, followed by Haunt. Make Haunt the last thing you do before you MG. Don't MG for 1 second and stop. And finally, before your procs and DS/Lust/whatever run out, refresh all your DoTs, and don't refresh them again - wait for them to fall off before you reapply.
    Here's a new log of me applying this: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...um/damageDone/

    Still not good enough. Went from 42k to 45k though(again take into account ilevel466 gear).

    Was always reapplying dots before using haunt then letting MG go until haunt is done and until cast is done. What do you mean by extend your procs? Also why is my malefic grasp doing so much of my damage? My dots still feel like they do shit damage compared to other locks.
    Last edited by Chaosshadow; 2012-10-10 at 05:36 AM.

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