ArenaNet has made something special!

[hatsune]

I don't think anybody disagrees that a group finder would make putting groups together faster. Given that GW2 allows not only cross-world, but also cross-region grouping, queues would be near instant (all you'd need when you don't have specific roles to fill is five players being in the queue, anywhere in the world). But it's not a free lunch.

The problem is that this convenience comes at a price and that group finders have adverse effects. They tend to destroy server communities; LFD groups tend to suffer the usual problems of anonymity on the internet (warning, NSFW language behind the link); just because it's faster to form a group does not mean that you won't pay for that by finishing more slowly (see: Jin'do the PUG killer above); and content gets nerfed to eliminate individual responsibility. There are those of us who do not think the costs are worth the convenience.

A reasonable concern and one that I am very willing to tolerate. I have no disagreement with anything you said. Most of the stuff I typed out was just in response to queries as to why an LFD system would form groups faster.

I have not done a roleless MMO (does RO count?) but I have had many problems just trying to recruit and retain simple dps roles in BC/WOTLK before LFD. My WOW raid life prior to LFR is limited to how far I can drag a group of no GS, no addon, no vent, assumed underequipped or at least within 2 tiers of current content before leavers completely defeat the raid. The only wall I ever saw to hinder me was logistics. And no we never full cleared. It would not be realistic to expect a single run to be able to anyway since I don't ask for overgeared allies. It is only realistic to expect 1-2hr max before people start to leave and an undergeared raid will rarely breach saurfang/purticide (depending on raid strength and possible wipes) on ICC in the time.

Cata launch per nerf 5man heroics was no wall to progression for me and neither was Jin'do. With a full team I cleared them frequently, often pulling 3 heroics an hour at the peak of my activity thanks to a tank's instant queue. As the leader of the PUG, I find runs go smooth as silk if I help out. If there's an interrupt that needs to be done, I give the party advance notice and remind them again during the pull (with avenging shield and hammer(now rebuke) I often do it myself whenever possible). If there's a cc that needs to be done, I mark out and help them find the ability on their action bar if need be. If there's an incoming dmg spike, I pop CDs and warn the healer in advance. If there are mechanics, I give a quick 30s explanation and continue to remind the team during the fight what needs to be done. Where possible I assume I will need to interrupt myself and my entire team will be undergeared and need assistance. I retain a 99% success rate on WOW LFD during the difficult periods. The only fails come from unsalvagable parties that are intent on trolling. (total of 4 lifetime fails since LFD started). In such cases, we part ways but it is truly a minority. Sample size in the hundreds.

I have nothing against people who dislike LFD/LFR or automation and prefer manual recruitment and guild only runs, even when they can do this in the presence of an automation system. We all have our preferences. I personally find automated random groups fun because it generates a new set of allies to run with all the time and getting to know them can be socially enjoyable. I admit I am probably biased since the other options to me are limited (no guild runs and have past trauma with spamming for allies).

It is GW2's decision to remove the LFD and you will not hear me disagree with what they want to do even if I don't like it. That said, I will keep an eye on GW2 to see if coop is easily found or if they have a change in direction to include automated LFD in the future.

[papajohn4]

If you really do all this, GW2 should provide a lot of hours for you

Well I hope so :P only problem they have level restriction on professions, so in order to be self-sustained with professions you need to have all your alts and main char at the same levels all the time :P while in swtor and lotro you can max out your professions even in low levels if you have the materials from a main character.

The problem is that this convenience comes at a price and that group finders have adverse effects. They tend to destroy server communities; LFD groups tend to suffer the usual problems of anonymity on the internet

Well I am always against the LFD/LFR for that same reason but gw2 promotes anonymity in my opinion. What happened to wow community since LFR is that people don't socialize anymore. You join a group, no one talks, in the best luck you get a "Hi". people rush through the dungeon, loot, leave. Communities now tend to see other players like npc, they don't talk, they don't care. GW2 has build the game around this in my opinion. You don't need to group with anyone, you don't need to talk to anyone, just run around and kill things. But gw2 took out the negative effects of anonymity which is

1.ninja loot : it cannot happened in gw2
2.insults: since you don't need to group/talk with people they cannot insult you
3.mob/gathering resource stealing : it cannot happened either.

tell me, you run in a zone and you kill monsters in a bunch of dynamic events...around you there are others that cannot tag mobs of you and you can hit the same mobs. You don't talk to them, you don't group with them, how exactly gw2 prevents anonymity?It does not, it promotes anonymity but it took out all the negative effects of anonymity. So a LFG tool for gw2 cannot hurt more the community. Will not change anything in my opinion. And I say again, I am always against lfg tools, but in gw2 doesn't matter

[Deleted]

2.insults: since you don't need to group/talk with people they cannot insult you

Just because they don't need to, it doesn't mean they're not able to. :P

I agree on all other points.

[jvbastel]

snip

Completely off-topic, but your avatar makes me sad

Such a touching movie.

[terrahero]

The worst thing LFD/LFR did in WoW is kill off guilds. If you wanted to raid you need to socialize, and before LFG people had friendlists with "good tank" or "great dps" or "Healer".

With automated systems the neccesity to either perform (because, who holds you accountable?) or socialize diminishes. And the most fun i had in WoW was with a steady guild.
Gw2 already made grouping much easier then WoW and its LFG system ever could by simply removing the Holy Trinity. Even with LFG you'd still spend upwards to 20min (heck ive had as much as 40min, but thats rare) waiting for a Tank. Now you dont need a Tank, you just need a Player.

[Deleted]

You don't talk to them, you don't group with them, how exactly gw2 prevents anonymity?

How did u feel when some ppl rezzed u (they did it for the exp mainly) or helped with a mob/boss/enemies in the Bgs (exp-loot) ?
Good -Neutral -Bad ? :P
How did u feel in normal bgs at WoW , when an enemy did /bow or /target u for a long of time , but he couldnt speak to u ? :P

Arenanet cant fix what is already broken , but i hope they trying to bring back the <<feeling>> atleast at some minor point among ur server members , without <<forcing>> those ppl to interact with the others ( but hoping they will get more socialize with the 30 minigames-istances without LFD-arenas-WvWvW-or the DEs like in the end of BWE1 (transforming u into an elemental killing others) or the survival game in BW3)

[Digglett]

tell me, you run in a zone and you kill monsters in a bunch of dynamic events...around you there are others that cannot tag mobs of you and you can hit the same mobs. You don't talk to them, you don't group with them, how exactly gw2 prevents anonymity?

How is that the game's fault?

[Pool of the Dead]

Game felt too slow for me, also having Latency issues from having to play from australia pretty much made dodging useless 99% of the time. Also most "hard" creatures involved just getting enough people to zerg it, and take turns taking smacks to the face and reviving.

Canceled my pre-order. I'm just going to wait for a new game now.

[Nexrex]

A wonderful thing they have made indeed. Now just fix fov and possibly camera angle and I can actually play it without feeling like the last meal I had is getting put through an exorcism to escape my bowls.

[mag07]

You see. The above will in all reasonability, take longer to start, run and complete a run as compared to a LFD system. From a pure efficiency point of view, not automating the recuritment and replacement aspect of group finding will result in a longer average run time. I have no problems with people saying they dislike LFD but surely we can at least have common ground and agree that groups form faster and leavers are replaced faster.

Raids, yes, 5 mens, no. In WoW, if you are a tank/healer - LFD/LFR is practically instant, if you happen to be a dps, well...think 30 mins queues are not something you are not familiar with. I don't mind LFD as such, I can respect not everyone enjoying the approach that I consider obvious - my issue with it is the fact that it is cross realm, in a game with few million players and encourages people to act like twats cos chances of running into the same setup again are slim. Internal LFG, I'd applaud - trouble is, Blizz would first have to sort out realm population issues, and they will not do that cos a. char transfer is profit, and b. doing so is admitting an issue, shareholders don't like 'issues' with their investments

Now, in Guild Wars, all you have to do is gather 5 people, race/profession do not matter. There is a system in place that allows you to flag yourself, consider it queued, and other players can easily find you, just as you can find them.

For me , the big appeal of GW2 is the fact that it is not WoW, it is not trying to be WoW, noone will ever be better at WoW then Blizz, - this game has it's own base in form of GW1, a completely different play style, even different keybinds for simple things like Character Screen or Inventory, and that is what makes it refreshing. It's not trying to be anything other then itself

[Tharjax]

GW2 is a good game but ppl are overhyping it.
The game has still some gpu issues, lag spikes, and so on.
And just like Totalbiscuit said, if they are not gonna put in some indoor raids ppl are getting bored after a while.
1 tip for Arenanet, make some indoor raids and this game will be even better for pve ppl, because ppl aren't going to do those dungeons over and over again.

Every MMO has some sort of bugs that need to get ironed out....I think people forget what the great and mighty WoW was like when it first came out.

So what total biscuit says is to be taken as the gospel? Gw2 is not built around endgame raids so no they will not put them in the game, it would defeat the purpose of how they built the game.

If WoW players are going to come and try to play GW2 like WoW, they will be dissapointed.

[Fencers]

I don't know if Total Biscuit actually said that or at least in those words. Boyrot, might be... stretching it a bit.

TB has expressed concern for the longevity of PVE post-honeymoon period, so to speak. Which is reasonable and shared by many new players to the series.

[jvbastel]

I don't know if Total Biscuit actually said that or at least in those words. Boyrot, might be... stretching it a bit.

TB has expressed concern for the longevity of PVE post-honeymoon period, so to speak. Which is reasonable and shared by many new players to the series.

He's right in expressing concerns about longevity. We all should be, fanboys and haters alike.

Raids aren't the only way of providing it, though. I think a lot of pve players will find WvWvW to be enjoyable for a long time as well

[Deleted]

Threads like this should be closed just like hate threads, both kinds are extemely anoying. If Ieverybody had to make a thread every time they enjoyed something the forums would be flooded.

It is new, ofcourse it's special just like WoW or any other game you enjoy does at the beginning. Stop making these kinds of threads already.

[Adversarius]

Threads like this should be closed just like hate threads, both kinds are extemely anoying. If Ieverybody had to make a thread every time they enjoyed something the forums would be flooded.

It is new, ofcourse it's special just like WoW or any other game you enjoy does at the beginning. Stop making these kinds of threads already.

It is kind of counter productive to post in a thread you want to go away. It would be best to just ignore it.

[Hotch]

yea cause we all know you can judge an mmo on one hour gameplay ... get a grip on yourself you do understand right that hyping a game to much never is good for the game

[Miah]

Game felt too slow for me, also having Latency issues from having to play from australia pretty much made dodging useless 99% of the time. Also most "hard" creatures involved just getting enough people to zerg it, and take turns taking smacks to the face and reviving.

Canceled my pre-order. I'm just going to wait for a new game now.

I'm really going to give it a chance, I want to like it a lot and I'm hoping they're just experimenting with FOV and cameras. I can learn to have slower, clumsy characters in PvP. It will make PvPing in fluid, fast paced PvP game more exciting if anything

[Lanarchy]

I like the game over the few BWEs, but it is hard to judge a full game from just a few hours, levels and zones.

[Fencers]

yea cause we all know you can judge an mmo on one hour gameplay ... get a grip on yourself you do understand right that hyping a game to much never is good for the game

Many people here have played for more than "1 hour". There have been roughly 6 stress tests in the 4 hour range, 1 stress test in the 1 hour range and 3 weekends worth of betas for those that pre-purchased. Not to mention the closed beta some have played in addition to all that but aren't allowed to give specifics on.

Adding further to this, we know by design on GW2 and historical design of GW1 the franchise is not bimodal. So all that players have experienced of gameplay in those ~170 hours of playable game is pretty much exactly what the game is like throughout and forevermore.

[hatsune]

Latency issues during stress test periods aren't really representative. I'd wait for full launch then check how latency is. This is not necessarily the same as a tracert right? An overloaded server will give bad latency regardless of the tracert right?