The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Hijiri]

I've been looking around on several tank forums and wanted to clear up "Hit = Expertise (Cap)"

Is hit cap =7.5% and expertise hit cap for both parry and dodge 15%?
(7.5% for dodge, followed by 7.5% for parry)

Then do we want Expertise + hit to equal 15% however once hit is equal to 7.5% then expertise will get a greater priority?
(since expertise is useful til the 15%)

[Deleted]

I've been looking around on several tank forums and wanted to clear up "Hit = Expertise (Cap)"

Is hit cap =7.5% and expertise hit cap for both parry and dodge 15%?
(7.5% for dodge, followed by 7.5% for parry)

Then do we want Expertise + hit to equal 15% however once hit is equal to 7.5% then expertise will get a greater priority?
(since expertise is useful til the 15%)

The expertise cap refers to capping dodge only, once you go beyond the dodge cap, expertise becomes half as valuable as it only effects parry and realistically capping parry is quite hard to do and not at all efficient. Whilst you want to cap expertise and hit if you are asking which is more important, then it's expertise for the above mentioned reason, it effects dodge and parry, where as hit only effects your chance to miss. As for the exact values, I don't know them off the top of my head, but if you open the char page it will tell you how much you need for a lvl 93 mob, that's your figure. Hit and expertise effect different things and therefor you are aiming for 2 separate caps. I hope that clears things up.

[Deleted]

As said above, both caps are at 7.5%. That gives you Hit + Dodge cap.

[ihaz]

You are wrong
Expertise doesn't loose value after 7,5%
You need 2550 hit and 2x2550 expertise
Expertise between 0 and 7,5% affects only dodge, and between 7,5% - 15% effects only parry, so every point has the same value (we are talking about tanking here which equals to attacking a boss from the front)

I would however suggest to first follow hit cap, because some abilities might not be able to be dodged/parried (i think Chi Wave... etc, but this needs confirmation)

[Seraphyx]

Question: I haven't tanked since the beginning of Wrath but I'm considering going back to it again, at least as an off spec. Does Brewmaster appear to be a tank spec that would be okay for someone who hasn't tanked in ages / or never tanked before?

[limis]

Question: I haven't tanked since the beginning of Wrath but I'm considering going back to it again, at least as an off spec. Does Brewmaster appear to be a tank spec that would be okay for someone who hasn't tanked in ages / or never tanked before?

you will find quite many abilities to use and timers to watch for

IMO it is not easiest tank class to start with

[Deleted]

The aguement that Brewmasters have more buttons to press is a little wrong.

Yes, we do have a number of buttons to press, though most of those are situational. Examples (I won't list Talent abilities, since not everyone chooses the same);

- Crackling Jade Lightning
- Path of Blossoms
- Leer of the Ox
- Transcendence / Transcendence Transfer
- Grapple Weapon
- Healing Sphere
- Paralysis
- Disable

Never going to be used on a constant basis, though useful in certain situations. This is what really makes us look like we have so much to press, in terms of abilities.

[The Madgod]

The aguement that Brewmasters have more buttons to press is a little wrong.

Yes, we do have a number of buttons to press, though most of those are situational. Examples (I won't list Talent abilities, since not everyone chooses the same);

- Crackling Jade Lightning
- Path of Blossoms
- Leer of the Ox
- Transcendence / Transcendence Transfer
- Grapple Weapon
- Healing Sphere
- Paralysis
- Disable

Never going to be used on a constant basis, though useful in certain situations. This is what really makes us look like we have so much to press, in terms of abilities.

CJL is a big nancy no-no since its a channel that doesn't allow for dodge or parry, I wouldn't exactly call it a useful tool for us. CJL is used to damage enemies from a distance and make some breathing room, while DH and PoB work just fine in that regard, AND are more effective, since consistent slowing an enemy and kiting it is better than knocking them back once every 8 seconds.

But anyway, I believe the user you are referring to is mostly talking about the abilities you use the most often, and it's quite true that brewmasters have a lot to keep track of compared to other tanks.

[Deleted]

Using CJL when something is hitting you is a foolish idea, of course. Though, I keep it keybound for those times where it may come in handy.

If were looking at abilities used often, we have;
(Again, not including Cooldowns or Talent choices)

Single Target

- Tiger Palm
- Jab
- Spinning Crane Kick
- Purifying Brew
- Keg Smash
- Blackout Kick
- Expel Harm
- Provoke

AoE

- Dizzying Haze
- Breath of Fire

Looking at it, the list isn't that large. It is, again, just bulked by the amount of situational abilities we have. The only difficult part of the spec (One that won't be that bad with suitable addons) is tracking Stagger and Buff timing. Keeping up TP stacks, Guard Stacks, BoK is pretty tedious currently because of Power Auras not working properly in beta.

[Deleted]

You are wrong
Expertise doesn't loose value after 7,5%
You need 2550 hit and 2x2550 expertise
Expertise between 0 and 7,5% affects only dodge, and between 7,5% - 15% effects only parry, so every point has the same value (we are talking about tanking here which equals to attacking a boss from the front)

I would however suggest to first follow hit cap, because some abilities might not be able to be dodged/parried (i think Chi Wave... etc, but this needs confirmation)

I didn't notice this change, has this been documented or are you just going off of what is on the char pane? 5100 expertise seems like a hell of a lot to cap fully, does this mean that hitting a boss from the front requires this much to be special capped?

On a separate note, I just spent some time on a dummy and was able to stack Shuffle up to 2 minutes, if this is a deliberate change this could be a very nice buff as we can stack Shuffle whilst not tanking potentially to the point where we don't need to refresh it at all whilst tanking, which would free up lots of Chi for PB's. I can't find anything on the home page about it being a deliberate change but it's nice if it is.

[Gothmoogle]

The shuffle change was mentioned in a blue post a week or two back. Don't remember it word by word, but I do know they mentioned removing the need to be below 6 seconds to refresh the buff. Don't know if being able to stack it for 2 minutes is an unintentional side effect, but if it is intended it's a welcome change.

[The Madgod]

Just asked the Ghostcrawler a question concerning expertise caps, and this is what he had to say:

Our general philosophy is that you should want hit and expertise to make your resource-generating attacks hit (paladin example: Crusader Strike) but not to have your active mitigation abilities work (paladin example: Shield of the Righteous). Probably the right call is to have the damage portion of SotR miss but always get the defensive benefit in the way Shield Block always works. This one-size-fits-all strategy might not work for every ability, because Death Strike is just such a different model than Shield of the Righteous, but that's out general philosophy.

EDIT: Asked a follow up question, since that doesn't necessarily solve our problem. I'll follow up with more information as it appears. For now, this might hint at a different design for some of our abilities in terms of how they're affected by hit and expertise.

[Hijiri]

More front page stuff. Won't add the stuff with the crazy math.

Talents
•Leg Sweep now has a 45 sec cooldown, up from 25 sec.

Brewmaster
•Breath of Fire additional damage reduced by 67%.
•Brewing: Elusive Brew now allows up to 3 stacks of Elusive Brew from autoattacks, up from 2.
•Elusive Brew now has a 9 sec cooldown, up from 1 sec.
•Vengeance now works off of 2% of the unmitigated damage rather than 5% of the damage taken. Now has a 20 sec duration and no cap on a percentage of your health.

[Deleted]

The EB cooldown is a bit odd. Sure, using them as you got them was *Usually* a survivability increase, though wasn't that the point of EB anyway? To use it as you saw fit?

Now that I think about it, the cool down does kind of make sense in a 'I will just macro this to everything' ability, though with the way I (And I assume most Monks) were using EB, it doesn't. Sure, I was using them every stack I got at times, though I still had that knowledge that I would need to stop and stack at other times. Kind of makes me feel as though we will just be using it at 9 stacks, provided we're a solo Tank or tanking for a long period of time and won't need to save it for any specific mechanic.

BoF nerf needed to happen, our AoE damage was nuts.
The EB stacking buff is nice, though, is that a 2h specific buff or will DW be able to grab 3 stacks from one hit?

[The Madgod]

The EB stacking buff is nice, though, is that a 2h specific buff or will DW be able to grab 3 stacks from one hit?

I believe that the stacking thing is based off of weapon speed, so it's probably a buff to 2h.

[Deleted]

I will get a log from the bnext round of boss tests with a 2H and see how EB stacks come about. Probably won't make it better than DW currently, though you can never know.

[The Madgod]

Alright so I've done a bit of theorizing and basic napkin sketching, and I've thought up some general stat priorities and gemming choices. Added to the sticky, but I'd like to hear your guys' imput on this. Shown below for your convenience. Expertise numbers are assuming that's where we'll want to be at. It might still be up in the air.

"One Size Fits All" / Average Encounters: Expertise (to 7.5%) > Hit (to 7.5%) > Agility > Dodge = Parry > Stamina > Crit > Mastery > Haste

Melee-Heavy Encounters: Expertise (to 7.5%) > Hit (to 7.5%) > Mastery > Agility > Stamina > Dodge = Parry > Haste > Crit

Magic-Heavy Encounters: Expertise (to 7.5%) > Hit (to 7.5%) > Stamina > Agility > Haste > Dodge = Parry > Crit > Mastery

	Average Encounters	Melee-Heavy Encounters	Magic-Heavy Encounters
Meta	Austere Primal Diamond	Austere Primal Diamond	Effulgent Primal Diamond
Red	Delicate Primordial Ruby	Adept Vermilion Onyx	Deft Vermilion Onyx
Blue	Shifting Imperial Amethyst	Puissant Wild Jade	Solid River's Heart
Yellow	Polished Vermilion Onyx	Fractured Sun's Radiance	Forceful Wild Jade

[Deleted]

"One Size Fits All" / Average Encounters: Expertise (to 7.5%) > Hit (to 7.5%) > Agility > Dodge = Parry > Stamina > Crit > Mastery > Haste

Melee-Heavy Encounters: Expertise (to 7.5%) > Hit (to 7.5%) > Mastery > Agility > Stamina > Dodge = Parry > Haste > Crit

Magic-Heavy Encounters: Expertise (to 7.5%) > Hit (to 7.5%) > Stamina > Agility > Haste > Dodge = Parry > Crit > Mastery

I would still assume that Crit would equal Dodge / Parry in a standard, all round build. Though, you can't really reforge to Stamina so it is all good ^_^

For a base standpoint, they seem fine. Of course, things would change slightly if you assume some Melee heavy boss attacks cannot be Dodge / Parried (So, in that case Haste may creep up a little more). Just throwing out an example there.

If anything major changes, then we can discuss them more at that point. Good job ;D

[The Madgod]

I would still assume that Crit would equal Dodge / Parry in a standard, all round build. Though, you can't really reforge to Stamina so it is all good ^_^

For a base standpoint, they seem fine. Of course, things would change slightly if you assume some Melee heavy boss attacks cannot be Dodge / Parried (So, in that case Haste may creep up a little more). Just throwing out an example there.

If anything major changes, then we can discuss them more at that point. Good job ;D

In my opinion, crit's only SLIGHTLY behind dodge and parry if only because of the fact that it helps with active mitigation, and therefore, is imperfect due to the human variable, while dodge and parry are a safter bet. If its possible to get high uptime, it might even surpass dodge and parry, though it would have to be capped at the point where its possible for max uptime (which I am quite sure is able to be figured out.)

And thank you! It's been a fun day. I still haven't done everything I wanted to, but I think I'll leave that for this weekend. Putting in as much as I did is good enough, I think lol.

[Deleted]

Remains to be seen I guess. I will give you a hand with info if it helps!

Your cute Batman creeps me out, like it eventually wants to kill me. Change it!