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  1. #481
    My alliance main is 6/8 HM and I'm female with another female on the team. (10 man team)

    My horde main is 5/8 HM and I'm female with at least FOUR other females on multiple seperate teams. (With myself being a main officer over them)

    --Mind you, some of the best players I've met are both sexes.

    I've been in guilds where the females are flirts and drama queens. I've been in other guilds its been the males. It's normally a balance of who you run into. I am not sure why a HC guild wouldn't want a player based on their sex....well....seeing how SOME females get their gear....

    I've been in very bad positions where my Gm would be a husband and wife duo team....wife would hardly show up when she did she was handed loot without any thought. People just accepted it.

    It depends on the person. The player. Whenever I've done interviews with raiders, I listen to how they talk, how they word things, what they do/don't know.

    I could careless if it comes with something between it's legs or not. Do the job you signed up for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Crusade View Post
    Clearly the rogue stabs them with a poison that revives, and the warrior yells at them until they get up.

  2. #482
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    I've actively raided heroic content with men and women. Our raid team in Firelands had three women raiding with us and they did a kick-ass job. We all treated these women like they were part of the group, no special and/or different treatment because they were of the opposite gender.

    The reason drama ensues in girls isn't neccessarily because of the girls. It's because of the guys that can't objectively play the game without making a deal out of what gender people are. These people are the problem.

    All four girls in our guild right now are being treated like any other and they prefer it that way.
    Last edited by mmoccdcfc5f8d6; 2012-08-16 at 09:35 AM.

  3. #483
    The Lightbringer Aqua's Avatar
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    Good lord there certainly are alot of guys who've never raided with a decent female. I mean I know the ratio is like 1:4 ...

    But god damn. I'm TERRIBLY sorry your experiences have been so shit but please at least try to imagine... visualize that there are women out there who can stick with a good guild for a long period of time and not muck anything up, pull their weight, never flirt or cause any drama.

    ...Please?

    It's not a lie. Most of us are just comfortable now in the guilds we're in and you don't see us.

    I'm actually really disturbed by this thread. Really. This ...I don't WANT to argue with anyone here, but I would never consider being anyone who thinks so low of female Warcraft players, friend. This is just low low low. And I wouldn't ever want to be in a guild where my efforts are scorned just because I have a higher sounding voice. You treat me as you treat anyone, you'll generally receive favorable results from my raiding performance. No matter what that may be.

    I have had ONE person in my guild. ONE react badly to the fact that I was an active female raider. He was promptly tossed upon his trial being over for malicious whispering. Did I bat an eyelid over it in guildchat? Nope. SS'd entire conversation, sent to officers. End of discussion, half the guild didn't even realize.
    It wasn't friendly teasing like he 'was talking to mates' it was actively appalling behavior (since such habits tend to carry over into battlegrounds and pugs) and such that it would have demeaned the reputation of our guild.
    I have eaten all the popcorn, I left none for anyone else.

  4. #484
    Scarab Lord Razorice's Avatar
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    that guild there, must really get a a lot of applications, lol. I kind off see why some guilds wouldn't want females in the raid group, we had a really shitty healer we had to boost because she was flashing tits for our officers on webcams, of couse not all women are like that but i'm just talking from my experience.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todgruppe View Post
    And my anecdotal evidence says women destroy? Neither proves anything, 6 of 7 guilds implosion I've been part of where caused by women directly (running off half the raiders), or indirectly (manipulating an officer). You use that comment as a retort, but that appears to me to be more of "I'm a women, treatz mez specal!!!". Overtly hostile male would get an overtly hostile response, women (a lot) throw tantrum when we treat them like "one of the guys". Now, I know plenty that can dish with the best, clearly not all, but it is the pussy on the pedestal syndrome.
    Hence my statement was that my experience is anecdotal.

    Ultimately, my point is that discriminating via any method of prejudice is a saving grace because it tells you that it's a group of people you don't want involved with. If a woman is causing drama, you deal with them the same way you would with a man causing drama; you tell them to cut it out, or you demote/remove them.

    What you don't do, which is what you're doing, is generalize every female into someone that causes trouble wherever they go, purely because they're female.

    I'm also reading your comment as an endorsement of the despicable statement made to a personal friend of mine.

    I sincerely hope I'm misunderstanding you because, had I saw it in any guild I've been in, I'd have demanded an immediate apology on the spot and then ditched.

    Nobody should have bigots use their genetic differences as beating sticks.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Azshalorah View Post
    I have been browsing the WoW forums as of late, to try and find a guild for MoP. I have stumbled into a LOT of guilds flat out saying they won't recruit any females. Here is a quote from one guild in particular....



    Now everything except for the 'no females' on that list I can understand. Can someone please enlighten me on this subject?

    Thanks!
    Well going fwd guilds can't be fussy since there is going to be a lack of people willing to do HMs going forward compared to the past. I think a reason was that a lot of guild drama was caused because of females being in a guild, not because of the females but because of the guys. You OMGGIRLDoingHCORERaiding. Obviously in your top guilds where there is a more mature playerbase this isn't a problem.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Heltoray View Post
    First of all, it's no shame to use the words "women" or "girls" instead of some distant term like "females".
    The answer to the question itself is easy:
    they're always good for drama and the kind of nerds that play in serious guilds tend to get extremely stupid and childish with girls around.
    At least I experienced people making sexist comments all the time when girls are present like that made them look cool or something.
    And also girls taking extreme advantage of others and being attention whores.

    Take to this the fact that girls aren't necessary for raiding and you have your reason why some people don't like them in their raids.

    Let me ask a question as well: Why do people not want women around when they meet with their bros? Yea, because women aren't bros.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. This is literally the answer to the OP's question.

  8. #488
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    I would say not because of drama, but more of special care that female raiders often require. What is generally ok in the male team of players, females may seem unappropriate. Like swearing, harsh critics, punishment for failures. Even the widespread ( in some guilds ) loot problems are much more worse if female is in it, because they are rather rare in WoW ( and this is true ).
    And if there is at least one male who likes/supports this female it all goes to drama. The problem is that if it is ok to say your male bro "man, you are playing like shit, what happend to you ?" or "-50 dkp for your blindness and shitty perfomance this try", "you messed up one more time, please go and rest" or maybe even some swearing is ok if someone messes up at 1%. Most females will find it offensive. Maybe this is in their nature, but i just hate when females in guild get special treatment just because they are girls. Most women play worse then men, but in most cases they even can't figure it out because they get much less critics, punishment and they are not pushed to top perfomance.
    Speaking about my experience - i was playing in medium hardcore guilds, no world firsts, but full HM in proper time and even region 3rd lich king for example. My brother got regional 1 lich HM kill and he has same experience.
    And in each and every guild girls got special treatment, they were blinded by it and really thought that they are good players.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendizerx View Post
    And in each and every guild girls got special treatment, they were blinded by it and really thought that they are good players.
    So what you're saying is that the people running the guild are the problem.

  10. #490
    The Patient
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    I've played with many excellent female players, but I will say I have seen a lot of situations where drama ensues because of a lonely guy looking for a WoW girlfriend and to the same coin I've seen some females exploit that to get gear etc. But any guild making it a rule to discriminate and generalize just because it may avoid some potential drama is a sad lot indeed and imo not worth your time, there's plenty of hardcore raid guilds that don't employ social ignorance in their recruiting methods.

    On another note, that guild should definitely name change to <Sausage Party>

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqua View Post
    But god damn. I'm TERRIBLY sorry your experiences have been so shit but please at least try to imagine... visualize that there are women out there who can stick with a good guild for a long period of time and not muck anything up, pull their weight, never flirt or cause any drama.

    ...Please?

    It's not a lie. Most of us are just comfortable now in the guilds we're in and you don't see us.

    I'm actually really disturbed by this thread. Really. This ...I don't WANT to argue with anyone here, but I would never consider being anyone who thinks so low of female Warcraft players, friend. This is just low low low. And I wouldn't ever want to be in a guild where my efforts are scorned just because I have a higher sounding voice. You treat me as you treat anyone, you'll generally receive favorable results from my raiding performance. No matter what that may be.

    I have had ONE person in my guild. ONE react badly to the fact that I was an active female raider. He was promptly tossed upon his trial being over for malicious whispering. Did I bat an eyelid over it in guildchat? Nope. SS'd entire conversation, sent to officers. End of discussion, half the guild didn't even realize.
    It wasn't friendly teasing like he 'was talking to mates' it was actively appalling behavior (since such habits tend to carry over into battlegrounds and pugs) and such that it would have demeaned the reputation of our guild.
    What's wrong with a bit of flirting to pass some time - as long as it's all in good fun (not the "want to get in your pants asap" type) and not during progression nights ?

    Other than that: I've raided with plenty of pretty good female players over the years and what I like(d) about most:

    They are/were pretty reliable most of the time - both with attendance and their performance, although most of them didn't really top the meters, none of them were dead weight either.

    So I'm all for female raiders, if they don't go down the attention/loot whore or drama queen route (though there are plenty of "drama kings" aswell) - I always treat all female raiders just like their male counterparts, if you fuck up repeatedly, I will let you know and/or inform the raidleader about it, if you do good, I will compliment you on your "awesome performance" and not whisper you "pics plz".

  12. #492
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by frumper View Post
    So what you're saying is that the people running the guild are the problem.
    Yes, i can agree with you.
    Modern society is a strange thing, women demand the exact same rights as the men and at the same time expect special behaviour towards them and special treatment. As almost all warcraft players are part of the real-life society they ( i mean all players, men and women) project this real life model into the game world.
    That is why i do not like raiding with girls/women, while almost in every guild there are at least few such players. And that is why i perfectly understand why some guild leaders do not want to see women in their raid.

    To be completely honest when i remember my past guilds, there were women playing just like normal people, without feminine chats, flirting with officers/gms, demands and expectation of special behaviour. They were a good part of the guild and i even did not pay attention to the fact that they are actually females
    Last edited by mmoc63e873a820; 2012-08-16 at 11:29 AM.

  13. #493
    Deleted
    To be honest i have never seen female top damage dealers in any logs.
    Last edited by mmoc63e873a820; 2012-08-16 at 12:24 PM.

  14. #494
    Deleted
    We've had 2 active women raiding in our group since Cata launch, and we're 8/8 hc. Not saying we're beast or server first or anything.
    Last edited by mmoc79be39102d; 2012-08-16 at 12:24 PM.

  15. #495
    It's curious to me that people always blame women for drama, or say they never top meters and/or logs. Simple fact, most of this game is male population. Of course there's going to be less of a chance for a female player to be 'the one'. I will also say, women who WANT to raid at that level, as a competitive player, do NOT cause drama. The only drama there is from men who can't keep it in their pants, and blame it on the lady. I see there's already some of these posting. Lovely, really.

  16. #496
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    A female Shadow Priest in my Guild regularly hits 69k on Heroic Madness.

    It isn't that women are not good at the game that they are banned from top guilds, its the VERY real fact that their presence causes problems in a game that is dominated by men. Hearing that female voice in vent, talking to them in Guild - these things trigger the male hormones. When you have a woman in a guild you are basically lighting a fuse where all the men are going to see each other as competition.

    This causes drama. It always does. Even if it is a minor, personal drama thanks to the will of the raiders in your Guild it is there.

    Hell, my Guild is comprised of an almost 1:1 ratio of men and women and that stuff is pretty much something we constantly deal with. Luckily after five years of running the same Guild, fixing these types of issues has become second nature.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azshalorah View Post
    I have been browsing the WoW forums as of late, to try and find a guild for MoP. I have stumbled into a LOT of guilds flat out saying they won't recruit any females. Here is a quote from one guild in particular....



    Now everything except for the 'no females' on that list I can understand. Can someone please enlighten me on this subject?

    Thanks!
    Just one of those guilds where the guildmaster, most likely isn't older than 16, trying to act like actual hardcore raiders, recruiting 1/8 hm...
    The whole thing just doesn't make any sense to me. Implying women are bad raiders. Have a look at Paragon and Method that both had several female raiders in the previous expansions, also getting world firsts.

    ...

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 02:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by espoire View Post
    Echoing what many have said: our 8/8 H guild doesn't discriminate. In fact, our star healer is a woman.

    In my personal experience, I seem to notice more "bad" female players, but I highly doubt it's actually any more common; I'm probably just taking notice because girls are rare in the first place.
    My guild is 95% male yet we act like females...

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by wowaccounttom View Post
    - except for an extremely selected few, women in general lack eye/hand/brain/response coordination needed for the game.
    That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It is the *Person* who plays bad, regardless of gender. I know some girls that kick ass at games. And I know some lads that just suck at them.

    And how did you come to the conclusion that women in general lack co-ordination? It's pretty arrogant to think like that.

  19. #499
    The Lightbringer Aqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TequilaFlavor View Post
    What's wrong with a bit of flirting to pass some time - as long as it's all in good fun (not the "want to get in your pants asap" type) and not during progression nights ?

    Other than that: I've raided with plenty of pretty good female players over the years and what I like(d) about most:

    They are/were pretty reliable most of the time - both with attendance and their performance, although most of them didn't really top the meters, none of them were dead weight either.

    So I'm all for female raiders, if they don't go down the attention/loot whore or drama queen route (though there are plenty of "drama kings" aswell) - I always treat all female raiders just like their male counterparts, if you fuck up repeatedly, I will let you know and/or inform the raidleader about it, if you do good, I will compliment you on your "awesome performance" and not whisper you "pics plz".

    I think you need to read through this thread more thoroughly. You seem to be in the minority camp. And yes I agree with you, that is how most raiders should behave and treat others. But this thread... I'm disturbed by how many seem to think omitting female players is not only a positive, but should be encouraged.

    There are negative representatives of both gender, no doubts at all. But the topic at hand was outlining a guild who had underlined a 'no women' policy. And the fact that a large number of people seem to leap to it's defense seem to smack a bit of 'insecure around women' syndrome or just haven't been in a guild with a woman who manages to raid with a bit of a decorum.

    And I don't flirt, simply because there is always a danger of someone misconstruing intentions in EU guilds where all our accents sometimes make it difficult to measure levels of sincerity. It's just good manners around people you don't know. It's a hurdle we just have to sit and deal with, if we want to raid we kind of have to leave the more intense (yet obviously funny) sexual jokes at the door. And there are plenty of other ways to enjoy the evening. I make jokes frequently, but I can do it without mentioning the dirty, just takes a creative mind.

    Or maybe my guild is too full of old people, I dunno. But we never seem to go down that route often. Seems a bit odd to do with people you only know via voice and photo. I don't make it a point to get to know people online any further than that.
    Last edited by Aqua; 2012-08-16 at 12:42 PM.
    I have eaten all the popcorn, I left none for anyone else.

  20. #500
    Excuse me, but stop blaming the girls/women. From my experience its the guys that start the drama because of the girls, and then its not fair to blame the girls.
    And I've been in a lot of guilds where there are guys having a major drama without any females involved. It's just that when a girl is whining, people get more annoyed for some reason I think.

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