Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Windfury]

See, doesn't this tell you anything about how suited women are for the role of tank? It should.

So men don't die when they're tanking heroic raids with no heals? Good to know.

[Zenvuer]

Zharradan:
Most of the guys don't realize that actually males causes the drama, because they like to defend female friends. It's not actually girls fault.
And I know lot of guys who do defend their male friends too. Friends are friends even they are bad players.

[Shadylol]

Zharradan:
Most of the guys don't realize that actually males causes the drama, because they like to defend female friends. It's not actually girls fault.
And I know lot of guys who do defend their male friends too. Friends are friends even they are bad players.

Either way, removing women from the situation prevents the issue from occuring

[This name sucks]

We're 8/8HC and my GM/RL is a female.
They only tend to get annoying when in a relationship with another raider/officer, speaking from experience. Not always the case though.

And when did you get 8/8 heroic.

[Zenvuer]

Either way, removing women from the situation prevents the issue from occuring

So the guild would remove all the drama guys too. And doing it like that it's just one-sided and stupid.

[Tuhandyn]

The answer is super simple: They're asshats.

Hopefully that doesn't run afoul of the "keep it clean" mandate, I just feel that asshats describes these kinds of people best.

Asshats.

[Snuffleupagus]

Zharradan:
Most of the guys don't realize that actually males causes the drama, because they like to defend female friends. It's not actually girls fault.
And I know lot of guys who do defend their male friends too. Friends are friends even they are bad players.

Men cause drama because the majority of HC raiders are losers who white knight like there is no tomorrow and will defend any semi-attractive female who will talk to them, regardless of "friend" status.

Removing women, who are a minority is the easiest way for not-quite-hardcore-or-skilled guilds to deal with their massive turnover of players.

The best guilds, however, don't have this problem as they usually have a tight-knit group that is willing to call bad players out regardless of gender.

EDIT: Lot of white knights in this thread.

[Spalding]

I was in a Hc raiding guild. We had a female huntard and i've been raiding with her for years, sure her awareness wasn't the best and even with most gear her dps was beaten, but she did her role.
On the other hand our group 2 has another female in it, and she just doesn't shut up when raiding. Every time I raid with them I end up leaving or muting her mic... and her dps and awareness lacked..
this seems to be the biggest problem with them :P

[This name sucks]

Men cause drama because the majority of HC raiders are losers who white knight like there is no tomorrow and will defend any semi-attractive female who will talk to them, regardless of "friend" status.

Removing women, who are a minority is the easiest way for not-quite-hardcore-or-skilled guilds to deal with their massive turnover of players.

The best guilds, however, don't have this problem as they usually have a tight-knit group that is willing to call bad players out regardless of gender.

EDIT: Lot of white knights in this thread.

Yep, when I joined my first 2 guilds, which were horrible, the amount of white knighting shit players defending other shit players because one didn't have a dick was unbelievable.

Thankfully that starts to die out once you get out the retard zone at around top US 50~

[namelessone]

Hey now, dont intrude on someone's post because you disagree. Most women "are" pretty crappy raiders, and on MG most are raging ERPers.

And of course, just like anyone else, you don't have a single number to back up this claim, right? Thought so.

[Deleted]

7. Looking to raid more than 12 hrs a week

This is a hardcore guild now? Gosh.

I think what you've done here is a rather brutal generalization of guilds based on very little data.

[Wilfire]

fact: guilds who set rules like 21+ and no females are not "hardcore", more like "lamecore guild run by insecure tween". im in a guild without crazy insane rules and we still cleared all of cata content without problems and meanwhile had alot of fun

[Shadylol]

fact: guilds who set rules like 21+ and no females are not "hardcore", more like "lamecore guild run by insecure tween". im in a guild without crazy insane rules and we still cleared all of cata content without problems and meanwhile had alot of fun

Cataclysm doesn't really have "hardcore" guilds, that idea just isn't plausible with the current state of the game

When WoW was a very competitive game, there were many guilds that did very well, and had restrictions based on age, sex, and others, and/or a combination of said restrictions, for what they would not allow

[Ratanna]

its because the original person neglected to copy the about us segment. Here you go. Its also been our website for ages.

Raiding Schedule (CST):
Sun: OFF
Mon : 8-12pm
Tues : 8-12pm
Wed: OFF
Thurs : 8-12pm
Fri: OFF
Sat: OFF

Do not bother applying if you are any of the following:
1. Immature
2. Under the age of 21 (anything under will require an extensive verbal interview)
3. Female
4. Have a *%%!ty mic
5. Have no cell phone (or own one and don't respond)
6. Care more about loot than progression
7. Looking to raid more than 12 hrs a week
8. Left your last guild because of loot
9. Looking to get carried
10. Don't know the in's and outs of your class
11. Not have an authenticator

Who we are:
We are what we like to call "Hardcore Casual". We are looking for these kinds of people. We are strictly raiding on a 12 hr/week raiding schedule. If you are a hardcore gamer, then this place will not be a fit for you. Most of us are ages 23+ with IRL jobs/life. We raid very little, but the time we put in is extremely efficient. There is no chatter during raids, when we clock in its nothing but focus for 4 hours. If you are a mature gamer who has the skills but not all the time in the world, then this guild is probably for you. Last of all, there is no favoritism in our guild. You show up, perform, have a good attitude, and respect one another and there should be no problem.

Our goals:
We have very high expectations for the time we put in. We will be farming the easier hard modes until we're sufficiently geared then will make for a push for the harder hard modes. We are not looking to bash our heads against a brick wall night after night. All content must be cleared within 12 hrs of raiding in a week. Spare time we spend is on progression.

What we're looking for:
- People who understand the game mechanics (ie. watch videos & read forums). Even though the mechanic may not pertain to their class they still know about it.
- On the fly clutch players (usage of cooldowns, being vocal for key moments)
- Innovative tweakers and theorycrafters (I should not be the one telling you how to play your class. Period)
- Dedicated (Min maxed professions. Enchants/gems)
- Respectful (able to contact one of our veteran members in the event you are late/can't show)
- Unselfish (non-loot **!#*/complainer)
- Casual Gamers. 3-day a week gamers is all we ask. We want to run the guild to where if any 1 or 2 ppl miss, we still raid. We also want people to not have to pass up on nfl/nba/mbl tickets or cool events like that and feel guilty. Life is too good to spend every night raiding.

http://nebula.enjin.com to apply click on recruitment and fill out an application


We are NOT hardcore, we hare hardcore-casual. That means pick up a hardcore player, confine him to 12 hrs a week, and you have us. Pretty simple. And yeah, I think US 76th for a casual 3 nights a week is a pretty good showing considering we killed the shit in FEBRUARY. You can go through our world of logs and see how many attempts it took to kill each boss pre nerf. Same thing in Firelands which was cleared in OCTOBER. Go tally up how many attempts it took us to kill progression bosses and compare it to your guilds attempts if you attempted to do them pre nerf. This will give you an idea of how efficient we run our ship.

Less that 1% of people are able to kill shit pre nerf. That is a fact. We are looking for a particular portion of that 1%, so yeah it is highly likely that this guild is not the right one for you. If thats the case, move along. I have stated time and time again the decision was made because of how females respond to our current leadership style, not because they're inferior players or that they will mingle with my current members. Its NOT a superiority thing, its a style of efficient cohesion. Most people (male and female) don't appreciate 30 seconds or 1 minute like we do. For us, 30 seconds-1 minutes here and there add up to another pull, adding up to a potential kill. We take breaks at the same time, if we have a man down we have one ready to go right away at any given notice.

You can get a glimpse of our raiding environment in our heroic rag kill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im1KRT7OFLE

Here is also US 13th Heroic Warmaster Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih8rYwfzeHM

[Suikoden]

Some of the worst raiders I've ever raided with have been female...

Wow it's like people have different experiences or something!

[dalliah1]

The fact that the first thing you said is "I'm a girl" kind of makes me wonder about you. My friends and I call this the "I AM A WOMAN" type/mentality, and it's something we tried to avoid in WoW. For the record, some of the friends that shared that sentiment were girls/women themselves, so you can't say we're just a bunch of sexist young men

At any rate, Ratanna has explained multiple times that he's not excluded women to be mean to women. He just doesn't have the time to deal with girl drama (or even potential girl drama). I've been in "hardcore" raiding guilds that allowed women, and I can tell you from firsthand experience that the Raid leaders have to deal with a lot of extra nonsense from women, or even just having women in the guild, and the drama that can arise from men as a result of that

I've seen women cyber the DKP officer, to try to get extra DKP, I've seen a woman get kicked for being bad and her husband leave as a result, I've seen the typical "I'M A GIRL LOVE ME" teenager shit, and countless other examples

I played WoW for several years, and over that time I saw plenty of women that were good at the game, and didn't cause any drama, but I also saw way, way more who were either awful, caused drama, or both. I can totally see the logic in having a no girls allowed policy, and I've been in top guilds that had this policy

Point being, that if a Raid leader/Guild leader has the time to deal with girl drama, and doesn't mind the potential for it, then it's A-Okay to let women raid with you. The Guild leader in question here has stated, and explained multiple times that he does not have time for this, and just wishes to avoid it altogether. If you want to raid with women, that's fine, but some of us are more busy outside of WoW

Girl, woman. Same gender is it not? I am 23 years old.

If you have a corrupt system where dkp is awarded to women more so than the men because of cybering and whatnot, women aren't the problem. It's because you have a shitty guild/officers that allows those things to happen. Not all women cause drama though. On top of that, if it's an end game raiding guild. You should be doing background checks on that person, investigate as to why they left their previous guilds if possible, etc.. It's not hard to log on a level 1 toon and ask their previous GM.

And from my own experience, I think that men are more sensitive to their playstyles than women are. You tell a guy that he needs to pick up his dps and he'll rage or gquit from what i've seen so saying females cause more drama is pretty irrelevant.

[Larynx]

The less possibilities to cause drama the better. Men and women together typically cause drama. That is avoidable, so they try to reduce the risk by eliminating the least represented of the two. Well, and the fact that the people making the rules aren't going to get rid of themselves.

[This name sucks]

bitching.

Your guild still was a good source of laughter for aptitude.

And the point of the thread was to mock you and not to advertise for your sexist (read: bad) guild.

Wow I just read that and you are proud of clearing FL in OCTOBER and you put hardcore in your name.

Is that really what this game has degraded to?

[Ratanna]

Your guild still was a good source of laughter for aptitude.

And the point of the thread was to mock you and not to advertise for your sexist (read: bad) guild.

Wow I just read that and you are proud of clearing FL in OCTOBER and you put hardcore in your name.

Is that really what this game has degraded to?

right aptitude who raids 6 days a week during progression. and your guild that raids 5 days a week during progression.

gj hats off to you. I'm fine with my 3day/week 12 hrs

[This name sucks]

right aptitude who raids 6 days a week during progression. and your guild that raids 5 days a week during progression.

gj hats off to you. I'm fine with my 3day/week 12 hrs

Then don't call yourselves hardcore and put up stupid rules like "no girls allowed" or "must have authenticator" to join your prestigious little club.