WoW from a Vanilla player's perspective.

[theK1ll577]

720 days played??? wow..
you need to get out more dude..

I hold a job and go to college...go say that to the kid with 1200 days played.

[lazzy]

Take the blinders off, Vanilla Raids were EASY. Name me one Vanilla Fight that had Boss mechanics as complex as Dragon Soul.

That's pretty simple. C'thun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ba7...eature=related

Oh yeah, all those addons u see on the screen are just a illusion because you no we didn't have addons back then. That's why all the fights were so hard right?

[Deleted]

I cannot decide on this because I was 8 at the time I started playing WoW in the beginning, I sometimes played on my brother's account but that was it. But from what I've heard, the only thing that really made the 40 man raids so difficult was coordinating 40 people at the same time, compared to the 25 or even 10 we have now. Just because they changed the game so that we don't require a pally anymore that's only there to constantly buff everyone up, doesn't mean it has been dumbed down

[Charge me Doctor]

That's pretty simple. C'thun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ba7...eature=related

Oh yeah, all those addons u see on the screen are just a illusion because you no we didn't have addons back then. That's why all the fights were so hard right?

Again, overtuned not equial to complex. Having to download and install addons or having addons baseline makes no diffirence. There was no complex mecanic, most of fights were overtuned and gear dependant (main requirement was not skill but gear, you could just randomly spam buttons in battle stance as prot warrior in full FRes gear and still deal with The Baron). At least, there was fun fights (like corrupted by Nefarian red dragon where you needed to stack 5-7 tanks depending on rogues in your raid). C'thun fight is just deathwisper fight (kill adds), + run away from lazer beam + stomach phase (which was instant wipe if healer got into it).
I remember in MC raids we had battle ressers (priests who just avoided damage to not get in a +combat+ and ressurected all those people who died in fire). There was people who didn't knew a shit about game/encounter. At least 10-15 people were actually playing in those times, others were just an auto-attack dot effect without filling debuff limit.

And i remember paladins as buffers (we had two, who then rerolled into warriors and got kicked out of BWL raid). They spend ~4 minutes every 5 minutes to buff everyone in 40 mans raid. It was soooo fun to play. But people still played it, because there was nothing to play back then (WC3, Warhammer, can't remember anything good from those times).

And skipping bosses in Naxx because "we need to farm AQ40 another 2-3 weeks and if we will get luck, our tanks will be geared enough to stand Patchwerk" (after gearing up our tanks, they left our guild and we disformed raid, because it was impossible to find 3 equialy geared tanks) was not fun.

And again, i want to point at skill required to be successive at PvE. In Vanilla you needed to be specific class (like druid, all druids were forced to be healers), or hunter to do decent DPS and never run OOM (FD+Water), or rogue (infinite resourse, no debuffs from meleeing), warlock (CoD, CoR, CoW), warrior (tank). Now, you can play anything you want, and be on pair with everyone else

[lazzy]

Again, overtuned not equial to complex. Having to download and install addons or having addons baseline makes no diffirence. There was no complex mecanic, most of fights were overtuned and gear dependant (main requirement was not skill but gear, you could just randomly spam buttons in battle stance as prot warrior in full FRes gear and still deal with The Baron). At least, there was fun fights (like corrupted by Nefarian red dragon where you needed to stack 5-7 tanks depending on rogues in your raid). C'thun fight is just deathwisper fight (kill adds), + run away from lazer beam + stomach phase (which was instant wipe if healer got into it).
I remember in MC raids we had battle ressers (priests who just avoided damage to not get in a +combat+ and ressurected all those people who died in fire). There was people who didn't knew a shit about game/encounter. At least 10-15 people were actually playing in those times, others were just an auto-attack dot effect without filling debuff limit.

And i remember paladins as buffers (we had two, who then rerolled into warriors and got kicked out of BWL raid). They spend ~4 minutes every 5 minutes to buff everyone in 40 mans raid. It was soooo fun to play. But people still played it, because there was nothing to play back then (WC3, Warhammer, can't remember anything good from those times)

I can say the same thing about raiding now. They are not complex IMO it's always going to be do a fight till you memorize it. All the fights in WoW are rehashed mechanics or just plain common sense fights. In vanilla not only did you have to do the fights, you had to do mana management / use bandages / HP and mana pots / vanish rez people or feign death rez ppl / down rank your spells so u didn't oom yourself. Also there was no normal/heroic mode. It was ALL hard for EVERYONE.

My argument would be you had to do more and pay more attention to what was going on. If you messed up once u was dead and there goes 20mins of a boss fight you was working on. Today i can't think of a single fight that is over 15 mins long.

---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 02:04 AM ----------

And skipping bosses in Naxx because "we need to farm AQ40 another 2-3 weeks and if we will get luck, our tanks will be geared enough to stand Patchwerk" (after gearing up our tanks, they left our guild and we disformed raid, because it was impossible to find 3 equialy geared tanks) was not fun.

Yup, cuz it's super fun and makes a lot of sense once i hit lvl 85 i can go to the AH buy all the gear i want and start raiding anything i want within 10 mins.

[sophos1]

The community in vanilla wow was a lot like the community of a high school where you know everyone's face, name, and personality and you had no choice but to interact with them.

The community now is like it is if you went to a different college every semester and you commute from an apartment. You don't know anybody and if you happen to make a few friends, you will probably never see them again in a few months.

World of Warcraft is better now because of the streamlined user interface, but worse because world-pvp no longer exists and the average person you meet now is simply "some random pub"

[Deleted]

It's worse for me, but considering it's still the most enjoyable MMORPG I am thankfull for Blizz either way.

[Charge me Doctor]

I can say the same thing about raiding now. They are not complex IMO it's always going to be do a fight till you memorize it. All the fights in WoW are rehashed mechanics or just plain common sense fights. In vanilla not only did you have to do the fights, you had to do mana management / use bandages / HP and mana pots / vanish rez people or feign death rez ppl / down rank your spells so u didn't oom yourself. Also there was no normal/heroic mode. It was ALL hard for EVERYONE.

My argument would be you had to do more and pay more attention to what was going on. If you messed up once u was dead and there goes 20mins of a boss fight you was working on. Today i can't think of a single fight that is over 15 mins long.

---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 02:04 AM ----------



Yup, cuz it's super fun and makes a lot of sense once i hit lvl 85 i can go to the AH buy all the gear i want and start raiding anything i want within 10 mins.

Compare morchok fight to a gehenas. You see no diffirense? they are equily complex? please... as DD, you need only /cast frostbolt to down it, other needed to down him is heal and decurse. Mana management is a bad excuse for a bad design. Running OOM after 1 minute fight as a mage, how do you manage your mana without EVO because you NEEDED to spec into it? Not spamming skills? Wanding enemies?

You know how i got Shazrah kill? I used WAND on him and IDLEd. And that is how 30 out of 40 raiders got their experiese, they did nothing, there is less than a half people who just carries noobs who needed to do bloodlust (horde exclusive) or buff some things

Downranking skills is about putting debuff on target, not running oom... So, undead priests could put on enemy all raks of death touch so you do ~100 less phis damage, so you can slow enemy by 50% for 30 mana with single frostbolt.


Being forced to skip bosses because your tanks need gear (random drop) is sucks so hard because it is random drop. You can farm 1 week for an item, and you can farm 6 week for it and still missing this item.

And please, mess up on Madness nowaday as a tank and don't resieve damage reduction buff and don't die from impale. Now there is much more things that needs your atention to not die/kill your raid than back in Vanilla.

[Merite]

Having played wow from the start, first blizzcon pet, pre-bg mount, killed ragnaros top 10 world, rank 11, and 9 glads since, I've seen both ends of it, but quite PvE after I cleared TBC. PvE was difficult and exclusive then. Exclusive means more than really anything there. Now, anyone and their mom can clear any instance, the day it comes out basically. That's just silly. Back in SSC days, we had to learn fights, now you look a journal or watch youtube videos, streams, it's ridiculous. You're just repeating what others have done.

PvP at least there's some exclusivity still, the buyers/cheaters/etc whatever, we all know they suck, they don't count.

Hopefully they improve PvP with PvP power and the like. I'd like if they improved PvE, but I don't see it at all. They spend too much time trying to please 10 million and lose them at the same time, they should just do what they did before, not try and please people, make a game as they wanted it, it was good then.

[aenima3473]

WOW is my cheers....the place were everyone knows my name (in my guild) always has been always will be.
No argument is truely valid in regards to wow when you understand that it's only a game.
Maybe we should stop trying to make it more than it is and just enjoy it until it becomes no more fun.
Then like any other game put it on a shelf remeber it fondly and find a new game to play.

[Hurwyn]

Better in some ways, worse in others. No poll option for that though... why do the polls here always blow?

[FeliciaMarie]

<Vanilla player.

Really just feels like the same game. I don't care either way. Only thing different is the nostalgia.

[lazzy]

Compare morchok fight to a gehenas. You see no diffirense? they are equily complex? please... as DD, you need only /cast frostbolt to down it, other needed to down him is heal and decurse. Mana management is a bad excuse for a bad design. Running OOM after 1 minute fight as a mage, how do you manage your mana without EVO because you NEEDED to spec into it? Not spamming skills? Wanding enemies?

You know how i got Shazrah kill? I used WAND on him and IDLEd. And that is how 30 out of 40 raiders got their experiese, they did nothing, there is less than a half people who just carries noobs who needed to do bloodlust (horde exclusive) or buff some things

Downranking skills is about putting debuff on target, not running oom... So, undead priests could put on enemy all raks of death touch so you do ~100 less phis damage, so you can slow enemy by 50% for 30 mana with single frostbolt.


Being forced to skip bosses because your tanks need gear (random drop) is sucks so hard because it is random drop. You can farm 1 week for an item, and you can farm 6 week for it and still missing this item.

And please, mess up on Madness nowaday as a tank and don't resieve damage reduction buff and don't die from impale. Now there is much more things that needs your atention to not die/kill your raid than back in Vanilla.

I like how u pick that fight out of all the fights in vanilla to compare.

and if you think morchok fight is complex that's just terrible that fight is easy and boring.

If you really believe everyone got carried through AQ40 and Naxx you're just delusional. If that was the case WAY more people would of actually done that content. It's so hard for ANYONE to die in a raid in current WoW raiding if you have semi competent healers with the infinite mana and AOE healing.

But keep on believing how much "harder and more complex" WoW is now.

[Zuben]

The sense of community is definitely much lesser than it used to be and there's not really any mystery left as over the years I've checked every nook and cranny of the world, but the game features and potential on the other hand feel greater than ever. Lore presentation is much better than in Vanilla, and that's pretty much my main interest these days, so I'd say the game is doing pretty well. I can get the sense of mystery by exploring the worlds of other games anyway.

[Assass1n]

I def agree that the sense of community is lesser. You pretty much knew who was who on your server back in the vanilla days. But, as a lot of pointed out, WoW has turned for the better over the years. People may not believe it, but blizz def tries to cater to the mass amounts of QQ in the WoW forums.

[Judaest]

Logging in, ganking lowbies, and feeding adolescent ADD in vanilla doesn't a valid opinion make about current content and the business direction Bliz / Activision has taken.

I sincerely hope no one takes this post as troll, or as flaming. I could type for days about this subject, but rather decided to share a simple small thought or two, since we seem to be in the spirit.

"the game HAS evolved and been updated to reflect the ease of access market"

No one can refute this, and I personally believe that the above philosophy is what turns people away. More often than not however, people aren't quite able to put their finger on what it is about the game that is turning them away and by proxy, they cant properly articulate their displeasure (not that it would matter anyway, but more on that in a bit). I started playing this game as an adult, so the accusation that that the game only seems like its changed, when really the change was with me is irrelevant. Also, the bar graph poll seems a bit irreverent as well because so many of the players that dislike the current WoW model are already long gone. Its simply not the whole story.

It seems to me that a large chunk of the player population became addicted to a game that presented a challenge. When you saw a high-end raider in Org, you were like "holy SHIT! How do I get gear like that? How do I get that title? How can I pull do THAT much damage??". There was a goal, and it inspired intelligent, committed, goal oriented gamers (and turning non-gamers into gamers - yours truly) to work toward being THAT player.

Yes, I AM a WoTLK player, but NO I have not, and will never simply echo the bemoaning of children about how the game was ruined, as was suggested by the OP. I don't believe the game has been completely ruined (yet -I still think there's at least 1 more xpac before WoW officially becomes a console game. Right on que with the release of the fabled "Titan"), but in 3 years they have SIGNIFICANTLY changed the entire dynamic of having to EARN your keep, and be proud of yourself upon arrival. And the dynamic continues to slowly but steadily slide into that very particular direction, diminishing the sense of accomplishment for committed players along the way.

I very, VERY firmly believe that what Bliz/Activision is doing to the dynamic of the game is a very carefully calculated move to make WoW the as easy to use as a console game, commitment free, mindless cash-cow as possible. If you look at it from a business standpoint, and keeping in mind "Titan" being on the never-ending horizon, it makes perfect sense. That seems confusing as I re-read it, but the gist is that its business 101 - If you want to get people hooked on a new product, you first have to convince people that they don't want the old product. Most importantly, it has to feel like THEIR idea.

I could type for days articulating my thoughts on this, but its pointless. Even if you DO compose a well thought out and comprehensible argument, complete with alternative paths for players with different focuses, 99% of the time you will be ignored or called demeaning names like "special snowflake" in "blue" posts. But more often than not, you will be snidely told by the players who have benefited from the great homogenization of WoW to "wait and see", or "try it out before you bitch" - both statements of which are a complete joke, because by the time it gets to the stage where ANYONE can "try it out" (ala beta), its already FAR too late in development stages to change anything - the shortbus has already left the parking lot.

The real shame is that once you start giving things to people that they can and should earn for themselves, you take away the persons incentive to work for what they have. You rob them of coming to know the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes from being one of only a few. I for one am pretty pissed that I missed that opportunity in WoW, and I really hope that Titan re-delivers whats been taken. Either that, or Ill just have to get a life >_>

[Tacotruck]

I really hope that Titan re-delivers whats been taken. Either that, or Ill just have to get a life >_>

Expect Titan to have LFG/LFR or it's equivalent baked in from the start. Blizz knows who the majority of it's fans are and the "top" handful of a % of the fanbase alone is not enough of a subscriber base. In what world does a business model where you alienate 90% of the fans to please 10% make sense? It would be like professional sports refusing to broadcast games because real fans make the effort to come see games live. Fan goodwill AND profits would plummet to levels that would make the entire enterprise unsustainable.

[theK1ll577]

Expect Titan to have LFG/LFR or it's equivalent baked in from the start. Blizz knows who the majority of it's fans are and the "top" handful of a % of the fanbase alone is not enough of a subscriber base. In what world does a business model where you alienate 90% of the fans to please 10% make sense? It would be like professional sports refusing to broadcast games because real fans make the effort to come see games live. Fan goodwill AND profits would plummet to levels that would make the entire enterprise unsustainable.

Wasn't titan already said to be a family oriented game? I've heard it was a shooter from a pretty reliable source, a new kind of game.

[Drdraenei]

If you are going to poll, then at least make the choices understandable.

1. Worst then it was.
2. Still the same old.
3. Better then it was.

I have no idea what "Worst then it was" is supposed to mean. Is this even English? I can understand that "then" is probably "than", but the phrase "Worst then it was" makes zero sense--when you are comparing something using "than", how on earth does one use "worst" instead of "worse". Did you mean "Worse than it was"?

You said in point 3 better then it was,I have no idea what "Better then it was" is supposed to mean, actually I do. and see no issue with this at all, just wanted to point out how harmless themistake was and how much you over reacted, but thats troll!

[Huehuecoyotl]

the world used to feel dangerous. levelling used to be at least some form of challenge, and went some way to teaching you how to play your class. these days the world is neutered, and you follow the path set for you as you can virtually AFK your way to 85, its so easy.

that part at least is much, much worse.