State of Destruction - Beta discussion (PvE focus)

[zomgDPS]

Your concept is cool, but it leads to what Tom Cadwell from Riot Games calls an "anti-pattern" - "I am conflicted when an add comes in if the correct decision to to use it on the add or save it for single-target DPS on the boss".

Link plz, kkthxbai.

[Evatar]

Tom Cadwell from Riot Games

I KNEW IT, your name is related to the champion Xerrath isnt it? isnt it?

[Rustjive]

Link plz, kkthxbai.

It's a very well known post: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=293417

[zomgDPS]

It's a very well known post: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=293417

Cheers brah.

[Jainzar]

does anyone know the hastecap already we should be aiming for with heroic T14 gear? I know probably no serious heroic raider will play destruction, still would be nice to know. Once content is on farm one could take a look at destro and play it a little for fun.

[Jessicka]

Duplicates spell to a different target.

Your concept is cool, but it leads to what Tom Cadwell from Riot Games calls an "anti-pattern" - "I am conflicted when an add comes in if the correct decision to to use it on the add or save it for single-target DPS on the boss".

Conflicted Purpose
This one is not a super strong anti-pattern, but sometimes it's there. A good example of this would be a 500 damage nuke that slows enemy attack speed by 50% for 10 seconds (as opposed to say, 20%), on a 20 second cooldown. At 50%, this is a strong combat initiation disable... but at 500 damage it's a great finisher on someone who is running... but you also want to use it early to get the disable -- even though you won't have it avail by the end of combat usually to finish. This makes players queasy about using the ability much like in the optimization case, but it's a slightly different problem. If the ability exists for too many different purposes on an explicit basis, it becomes confusing. this is different from something like blink which can be used for many purposes, but has a clear basic purpose -- in that place, players tend to just feel creative instead.

This example pretty much describes HoG/WoC perfectly...

[Evatar]

This example pretty much describes HoG/WoC perfectly...

Read closely, the post you link specifically address the slow being too strong, which isnt the case for HoG. Its slow is small enough that if you actually need a slow you would prolly glyph for it (which changes the focus of spell, which glyphs are meant to do), which would mean you are chosing to sacrifice dmg for utility in a raid setting, which is perfectly in line with desig intent last I checked.

Also, no offense, but from all your lastest posts it seems you just want spells changed to fit your exact and unique vision of what warlock should be, no compromises allowed, which isnt the devs' nor the community's vision (we all do at some level, but even the devs make compromises on this). I would advice you to try and accept thats its simply not going to happen.

[Jessicka]

Read closely, the post you link specifically address the slow being too strong, which isnt the case for HoG. Its slow is small enough that if you actually need a slow you would prolly glyph for it (which changes the focus of spell, which glyphs are meant to do), which would mean you are chosing to sacrifice dmg for utility in a raid setting, which is perfectly in line with desig intent last I checked.

It's also discussing a single target slow, which HoG isn't, it's an AoE slow which offers yet another dynamic altogether, which is then different again when applied to Wave of Chaos who's instant, direct damage 'must die now' application is completely at odds with the need to slow in the first place.

Clearly you've never tried using Aura of Forboding, which isn't surprising given how poor it is at what it tries to do in an AoE context. I pointed out these conflicted purposes months ago to him, and now for him to use the exact same argument to shoot down someone elses idea while leaving this in place is mind boggling.

[Grizelda]

Soul swap is used to add Dots faster on a new target. Now it can add Dots faster on the original target (Soulburn)
Havoc is used to duplicate a spell on a new target. I suggested using it to duplicate a spell on the original target.

I'm not even that hard up for you to do that to Havoc, I just feel that my analogy is valid.

Also, after reading your (Xelnaths) comments, I see you're hoping to use Havoc to improve cleave rather then single target anyway, so I suppose my point is moot.

[Xelnath]

It's also discussing a single target slow, which HoG isn't, it's an AoE slow which offers yet another dynamic altogether, which is then different again when applied to Wave of Chaos who's instant, direct damage 'must die now' application is completely at odds with the need to slow in the first place.

Clearly you've never tried using Aura of Forboding, which isn't surprising given how poor it is at what it tries to do in an AoE context. I pointed out these conflicted purposes months ago to him, and now for him to use the exact same argument to shoot down someone elses idea while leaving this in place is mind boggling.

There's really two options here.

A) Chaos Wave does equivalent damage per cost and damage over time as Hand of Gul'dan and serves the same niche in Meta as it does out.
B) Chaos Wave's damage per cost is skewed some different way and performs a slightly different niche.

Is A more clear? Yes.

Perhaps another option would have been:

C) Chaos Wave stuns or roots instead of snares, but is still a DoT.

However, giving that to the *most* mobile Warlock spec, something you pointed out to me repeatedly, seemed like an unwise call.

And while I appreciate your desire for absolute consistency, inconsistency can create interesting opportunities. Those kinds of changes are easy to whitewash out later.

[Deleted]

Chaos Wave sounds like a Destro name anyway, just change its spec :P

[Zharradan]

Chaos Wave sounds like a Destro name anyway, just change its spec :P

this /10char

[Xelnath]

this /10char

Hahaha. If anything, the whole Chaos kit was Illidan's in War 3.

Also yes, Jessicka, let's not having a Demo conversation in the Destro thread. Leave the poor kids alone :P

[Marximos]

I've posted this in the "Let's talk about a few things" thread, but it got lost through the amount of PoV wars going on there!

So here it is!

Question,

How logical will it be to link mana regen to the amount of embers that we generate? "Talking full ember here, not emberbits".

Currently, the way Destruction's mana regen works, we run oom faster the longer the encounter is.

So, is it possible to have one of two things, either make the mana regen scale with the amount of embers we got. Or, have the effect of reducing the mana cost of spells the more embers we get.

The only abuse I can see coming out of this would be adding FF to the rotation when having high amount of embers, but that can be solved through either creating an exclusion for FF, or even better, actually allow FF to be a part of the rotation, and adjusting accordingly.

I understand that its like 4 days before 5.0.4 is released, so probably no suggestions here are realistically doable in the short term, but hope it shows on your radar for something like 5.1 if it proves to be doable.

Off topic: Xelnath, I think I can speak for most users here when I say that the channel you opened here to allow us to communicate with you guys is really appreciated, even though some users are too die-hard fans of the class that whatever they intend to type.. comes out a bit too harsh.

Oh and btw.... you damn sure earned that title you got there!

[Micke]

I've posted this in the "Let's talk about a few things" thread, but it got lost through the amount of PoV wars going on there!

So here it is!

Well, buffing mana regen would be a dps increase most likely, and will have to be balanced out.

[Xelnath]

Well, buffing mana regen would be a dps increase most likely, and will have to be balanced out.

^ What Micke said.

Destruction Warlocks are like rogues - you're actually balanced around not pushing buttons 100% of the time. This sounds *horrible* but in practice it means as long as you don't mana cap, short bursts of movement aren't DPS losses.

[EvreliaGaming]

^ What Micke said.

Destruction Warlocks are like rogues - you're actually balanced around not pushing buttons 100% of the time. This sounds *horrible* but in practice it means as long as you don't mana cap, short bursts of movement aren't DPS losses.

Except if you aren't casting, you aren't generating Embers. And if you aren't generating Embers, you aren't spending Embers to do extra DPS (and in turn, restore your mana).

Surely?

[Xelnath]

Except if you aren't casting, you aren't generating Embers. And if you aren't generating Embers, you aren't spending Embers to do extra DPS (and in turn, restore your mana).

Surely?

Nope. Embers are a Mana / Time conversion rate. You're not missing out at all.

[Gobuchul]

Nope. Embers are a Mana / Time conversion rate. You're not missing out at all.

This would be a more compelling argument if the "slack" didn't amount to a few seconds over a full encounter in pre-raid gear, diminishing to nothing at all by the time you're in full heroic T14 gear.

[Deleted]

Remember that you are supposed to run around spamming Fel flame during 96 seconds, mana should come into play quickly