The 'Special Snowflake' argument. (A mostly personal view)

[Destruktion]

They made the game harder, they lost subs.

They made it easier, it gained subs.

Success is the number of people enjoying themselves. Easier is more fun because most people don't have much skill.

Here's one that's more accurate:

They made the endgame experience shorter, they lost subs.

They made the endgame experience longer, they gained subs.

Cataclysm was entirely a short endgame experience because there was only dungeon and raid content that was too short and difficult for most people at the beginning, and too short and easy towards the end. WotLK, TBC, and classic were all long endgame experiences because of balance of difficulty and time length.

Erm one of the point I raised was "why have the last segment of the game at all."

They could ditch HC raids entirely and not even notice the sub drop. Much better use of their resources to make another daily quest hub or a new companion pet series. The long standing catering to the elite raiding crowd has lead them to think that such catering is both neccessary and inevitable. it's neither - even most raiders wouldn't notice the difference if blizzard just released normal mode raids, already nerfed to a level where they were doable by the average player.

I wonder if Blizzard knows this and they've been carrying on regardless. Or, maybe they know something you don't.

[pvrwizard]

it's not about money, it's about the effort put in to get it.

If you work you ass of all days to get enough money to buy a widescreen tv, you're going to feel proud of yourself and you earned it.

But then your best friends dad buys the same tv for your friend.

so what........so fucking what

[Deleted]

Apparently I missed that point, which I admit is an interesting proposal. I agree with you here, and chances are that not many of the raiders would notice. It's quite possible that the reason for player division and constant bickering comes from the fact that Blizzard itself constantly points out ''there are these players, and there are those over there, and then those over yonder''.

I think blizzard bends over backwards to accomodate most people (even the very good at the game) and get little love for it.

One reason is the differing personalities of the HC raiders and the rest of the playerbase. So many compaints on the forums of the "special snowflake" just don't get that virtually no one else playing wow cares what they did or when they did it.

[Deleted]

You asked:


To which I answered:



No your a special snowflake because the fact that you'd be angry about it. I can understand being angry that you pay $15/month and there is nothing to do but being angry simply because someone got an item easier than you makes you exactly that. You have taken what I posted completely out of context and have tried to spin it around to where I now want and/or advocate for 100% drop rates and I have said nothing of the sort.

When you hold more value in what you have that other don't you are by definition the epitome of a "Special Snowflake"

I see this from a different point of view. I want that we all have equal chances of getting items/mounts. And you can insult that opinion as much as you want.

[Deleted]

Here's one that's more accurate:

They made the endgame experience shorter, they lost subs.

They made the endgame experience longer, they gained subs.

Completely agree with this. it'll be proven once and for all with MoP which has a ridiculous amount of stuff to do at cap. For a giggle and a look-see I did all the dailies available at 90, up there in pandaland. 4 fricking hours it took.

Cataclysm was entirely a short endgame experience because there was only dungeon and raid content that was too long and difficult at the beginning, and too short and easy towards the end. WotLK, TBC, and classic were all long endgame experiences because of balance of difficulty and time length.



I wonder if Blizzard knows this and they've been carrying on regardless. Or, maybe they know something you don't.

I've just noticed what blizzard are doing. LFR, nerfing and such.

[DreamCast]

A more important question is why on earth SHOULD they care?

I was in the top guild on my server in EQ back in the PoP/Gates of Discord era and not once did I get messages congratulating me on a first boss kill nor did I expect it.

Not only that, I didn't feel like I had done anything special at all for the simple reason that I have enough sense of perspective to KNOW that I hadn't accomplished squat by beating something in a video game.

Diversions and hobbies provide a sense of fun and personal satisfaction but it is absolutely essential that you realize that feeling is largely your brain's reward center kicking telling you "good job" when in reality you haven't really done anything that has any meaning whatsoever in terms of personal growth, advancing the human race or helping your fellow man.

TLDR: It's a video game and when you're on your deathbed the last thing you're gonna be pleased you spent your time doing is spending hours, days, or weeks of your life "raiding" no matter how successfully.

I think this guy should be used for a LFR marketing campaign.

[karrad]

There should be no crippling nerfs (IE firelands zone nerf) to content until the next tier is released.

[terminaltrip421]

i bought 60% land speed mounts on all 9 of my toons when they were still hundreds of gold. got it on my last one mere weeks before the price drop. also had flying on some. did i complain that everyone else after me would be getting theirs for cheaper? no. i figured if i ever had to buy them again i'd be happy paying the lesser price. the moral? positive outlook or get out.

[Crazyjoe]

TLDR: It's a video game and when you're on your deathbed the last thing you're gonna be pleased you spent your time doing is spending hours, days, or weeks of your life "raiding" no matter how successfully.

The experience of running a 25 man raiding guild in TBC and WOLTK actually gave me tools to manage a team in my department at a fairly young age. It did have it's benefits which I am affraid to say new players won't get to experience fully with the new design of spoonfeeding all the content to players for no effort.

[hyphnos]

The experience of running a 25 man raiding guild in TBC and WOLTK actually gave me tools to manage a team in my department at a fairly young age. It did have it's benefits which I am affraid to say new players won't get to experience fully with the new design of spoonfeeding all the content to players for no effort.

Yeah, I'm sure that running guilds is going to be a standard class in business schools fairly soon and I'm definitely gonna go check some resume advisory sites to see exactly how many suggest putting down your video gaming experience as a qualification. Or maybe I won't because I'm fairly sure as an employer I know what good it would do compared to say someone who actually led something in the real world where they interacted with people face to face.

What exactly does this "team" you managed do? Answer phones? Reformat people who download malware's hard drives? Do they REALLY do something that requires motivating them any more than keeping their job so they can pay their bills?

Were the people on your "team" provided with training by the company? By you? Or did you just send them out to install cable, throw them at a call center terminal to manage people's accounts without training, or tell them to go run the kitchen at McDonald's without showing them how to turn on the McBlizzard machine? Or is that "spoonfeeding"?

Is the job that the people you led actually filled with artificial barriers that require finger muscle memory as the primary means of success or is their job more of a type that "our company makes X" this is how you make X. Or our company sells X, here are some people to talk to who might want to buy it? Or your job is to help customers who have problems with their service billing or whatever, here is the computer where you can find the information to help them and how to use it?

I think most people respond to jobs fairly well because they do, to most everyone, make sense. The bathroom needs cleaning so they are paying me to clean it. The people need to put their money in the bank so they pay me to take their deposits.

How does this compare to the tank needs healing and I need to dodge random puddle of X while doing it in 2.3 seconds? There's a big difference in thinking, well I need to do this thing that makes sense to the company that pays me and why do i have to dodge this puddle of X in 2.3 seconds. For most people that difference matters and that is why there are not billions of MMO players.

So if I were evaluating you as an employer I might take note that you learned some of what anyone who heads a club, is in charge of a prom, or any number of everyday mundane things that might be helpful in keeping people on task at a job. Yay for you.

I still doubt that at the end your life you're going to look back at running a guild in WoW as some high point and if you do, your life will have been a very sad affair.

Furthermore, spoonfed or ridiculously artificially difficult - there's only one or two leaders in any raiding group so the rest are getting spoonfed already and unless you were a world first competitive guild, then you and the other leaders in your guild were getting your own version of spoonfeeding by the vast amount of information provided to you by the people out there who figured most of it all out for you with nice write ups and videos.

Where the spoonfeeding occurs is all a matter of perspective and you more likely than not just got your food a bit less smushed and think you are a big boy for it.

[Noah37]

Anyone who is wanting Blizzard to remove titles, mounts, etc. are just hoarders who want some sparkly item that they can show off to everyone and stroke their ego. Nothing more, nothing less. If you got it when you did, HIGH FIVE, you did a good job buddy. But when it comes down to it, this is a video game. People are joining WoW every day who couldn't have experienced older content, because they didn't play. Some people have schedules that just don't work well with WoW. Whatever be the case, there is no reason for Blizzard to pander to the ~1% who have all of the shiny items and things. It only makes sense from a business and frankly intelligent standpoint, to base everything on the biggest part of the Bell Curve and try and hit the largest audience.

[Deleted]

*Snip*

Is humiliation your goal? Is that why you're here? On the forums about a game you apparently detest talking to people that disgust you attempting to share your 'wisdom' and throwing in as many kicks in the teeth as possible?

Ironic, how you came to this discussion to tell people what they should better be off doing while you take part in the same thing with more than lengthy posts. You should take your own advice and leave.

[Diabeetus]

i bought 60% land speed mounts on all 9 of my toons when they were still hundreds of gold. got it on my last one mere weeks before the price drop. also had flying on some. did i complain that everyone else after me would be getting theirs for cheaper? no. i figured if i ever had to buy them again i'd be happy paying the lesser price. the moral? positive outlook.

This is more or less important in general, and not to just this topic. Having one's sense of accomplishment ride on other players having 463 gear compared to your 489 gear, instead of 476 gear to your 489 gear will only carve out one's own sadness.

[Deleted]

I fully admit I only play games where I can be a "special snowflake". I probably wont be, at least not for a very long time but the opportunity should be there. It gives me something to strive for and gives a reason for all the grinding and boring parts. It shouldn't be just random luck but for example veteran players should be more powerful than new players or those with a lot of money should be able to get much better gear than the rest or the ones who can clear the hardest content.. etc.

I see nothing wrong with it either. It's a core feature of RPGs. You play to get better and the longer you play the better you get. If the game tries to artificially level the playfield, for example giving good loot for everyone for less effort or makes leveling easier or with caps, I tend to lose interest fast.

There are other types of "snowflakes" too, those that grave attention or praise for their fancy mounts and trophies. They are a bit different and want to show off their skill or dedication. Again, I see nothing wrong with it.

We all seem to be forgetting that the original point of all games was to win. If everyone gets a gold medal for effort, whats the point in playing at all. Some games are only fun when theyre new but MMOs are built to keep players for longer. After the initial few weeks or months, they need something to keep players playing and like it or not, it is the "special snowflake" factor. Most people keep playing to reach some goal that makes them special, either in their own eyes or in the eyes of others.

[hyphnos]

Is humiliation your goal? Is that why you're here? On the forums about a game you apparently detest talking to people that disgust you attempting to share your 'wisdom' and throwing in as many kicks in the teeth as possible?

Ironic, how you came to this discussion to tell people what they should better be off doing while you take part in the same thing with more than lengthy posts. You should take your own advice and leave.

There is absolutely nothing ironic about it. I know that what I'm doing right now is of no consequence and that is the thing that differentiates me from all the people posting in this thread about how their sense of accomplishment is affected by a business decision by a gaming company.

I don't detest WoW. I play WoW and have a lot of fun doing it but I don't delude myself into thinking I'm accomplishing ANYTHING AT ALL but entertaining myself while I'm doing it. I will however, call out anyone who claims their in game accomplishments are diminished by what others or Blizzard does or is deluding themselves by thinking they are improving themselves somehow playing a video game.

If you find the fact that people waste time having fun "humiliating" then regard it as such. I'm not saying having fun or wasting time is wrong, I'm saying that being unaware that that is in fact what you are doing when you play a video game is.

[Deleted]

I don't detest WoW. I play WoW and have a lot of fun doing it but I don't delude myself into thinking I'm accomplishing ANYTHING AT ALL but entertaining myself while I'm doing it.

My english improved because we actually communicate on ventrilo and in-game and I met some nice people, visited 2 countries (UK and Bosnia & Herzegovina), made some friends and I met my girlfriend on WoW with whom I've been living for past 3 years.
I know I didn't save the world, didn't rescue people from burning buildings or invent a cure for cancer but I am quite satisfied what I did get out from WoW except entertainment.

[Deleted]

I fully admit I only play games where I can be a "special snowflake". I probably wont be, at least not for a very long time but the opportunity should be there. It gives me something to strive for and gives a reason for all the grinding and boring parts. It shouldn't be just random luck but for example veteran players should be more powerful than new players or those with a lot of money should be able to get much better gear than the rest or the ones who can clear the hardest content.. etc.

I see nothing wrong with it either. It's a core feature of RPGs. You play to get better and the longer you play the better you get. If the game tries to artificially level the playfield, for example giving good loot for everyone for less effort or makes leveling easier or with caps, I tend to lose interest fast.

There are other types of "snowflakes" too, those that grave attention or praise for their fancy mounts and trophies. They are a bit different and want to show off their skill or dedication. Again, I see nothing wrong with it.

We all seem to be forgetting that the original point of all games was to win. If everyone gets a gold medal for effort, whats the point in playing at all. Some games are only fun when theyre new but MMOs are built to keep players for longer. After the initial few weeks or months, they need something to keep players playing and like it or not, it is the "special snowflake" factor. Most people keep playing to reach some goal that makes them special, either in their own eyes or in the eyes of others.

I completely agree with you here. Veteran players being more ''experienced'' (powerful in any way) than newer players shouldn't ever be handled by artificially leveling the playing field, giving everyone the same odds of 'winning' regardless of effort, but by providing an appropriate challenge for that kind of a player. In other words, if you pitch them all in the same arena, the only result will be people rushing to the highest possible cap in the game. In a way, exactly this is most evident with newer players trying to pvp on the lower levels against players with Heirloom gear.

Pitch the most powerful players against other most powerful ones, whether in comparing gear, achievements, actual combat between the two (thank god for useless PvP brackets, again thanks to Heirlooms), or a test of determination in who will go the furthest into completing whatever segment in the game, and award them appropriately. The same kind of content should be presented to those that are not at the ''endgame''. Knowing you will eventually acquire anything there is in the game if you simply sit on your ass and wait for your turn (nerfs will come down the line sooner or later) isn't really that motivating, it just breeds either the rushing mentality or grief. None of it is a fulfilling playing experience.

[Diabeetus]

My english improved because we actually communicate on ventrilo and in-game and I met some nice people, visited 2 countries (UK and Bosnia & Herzegovina), made some friends and I met my girlfriend on WoW with whom I've been living for past 3 years.
I know I didn't save the world, didn't rescue people from burning buildings or invent a cure for cancer but I am quite satisfied what I did get out from WoW except entertainment.

While I do think people can extrapolate "some" non-entertainment benefit from WoW, I don't really thing WoW is best-suited for any of this. If I wanted to improve my language skills, there are far more efficient ways of doing so.

In the least, I would never, ever take any video game accomplishment and use it as a basis to look down on another person in any form, at all, even specifically with respect to the game.

An example, people assuming that those who do not raid are "lazy", and also concluding that they must be lazy in other affairs in their lives.

[Jibjabb]

one of the main reasons things like mounts get lowered drop rates when the next expansion hits is to keep people playing the game.

***NEWS FLASH***
Blizzard wants people to keep playing this game. By making vanity items they give raiders who otherwise wouldnt have to raid anymore a reason to keep raiding and keep paying their subscription fee so they can get everybody mounts. It also makes people who didnt raid play more to farm the non relevant content in order to get lucky and obtain it. If they kept it 100% regardless then raiders wouldnt care about raiding to get, since they can just faceroll it later in 15 min the next expansion and non raiders would also obtain it easily giving them less to do.

Without incentives to go for the playerbase stops showing up. Whats the point of achievements? Whats the point of rare mounts and pets? Whats the point of titles? Whats the point of transmog? To give the playerbase something to do! Making it extremely easy to obtain these things makes the playerbase disinterested and thus they stop playing and Blizzard starts losing money. The point of business is to make money and when your game is subscription based you are going to want as much longevity as possible.

In terms of mounts getting removed it was always because they were gauranteed and they felt it didnt feel right to allow it staying 100% after the content was trivialized OR the content was removed and thus there was no place left to put the mounts (see ZG)

[Deleted]

While I do think people can extrapolate "some" non-entertainment benefit from WoW, I don't really thing WoW is best-suited for any of this. If I wanted to improve my language skills, there are far more efficient ways of doing so.

In the least, I would never, ever take any video game accomplishment and use it as a basis to look down on another person in any form, at all, even specifically with respect to the game.

An example, people assuming that those who do not raid are "lazy", and also concluding that they must be lazy in other affairs in their lives.

I am sorry, but I think using english every day, be it on WoW or any other game is positive. Even my trip to UK where I spoke english all the time was efficient in learning it. You can't just get everything in schools.

Oh btw, I would never use ANY accomplishment and use it as a basis to look down on another person, nor did I say anything like that. Those who don't raid obviously don't like raiding, and really, I never heard people calling them lazy...