"On the fence" about getting GW2 (PvE focused gamer)

[TequilaFlavor]

Disclaimer: This post is in no way intended to give GW2 a bad reputation, whenever "bad rumors"/complaints are asked about, it's only because I picked them up somewhere without specificly looking for something to nitpick (which would be stupid before playing the game, anyway).

And yes, I have looked some stuff up myself, please try not to go the "let google do that for you" linking meme route.


Hi, long time GW2 forum lurker and currently "on the fence about getting GW2 sitter" here.

I know I could have just written something in "The One Thread", but I wasn't sure if it would have really been read and answered between all the other discussions over there, and as I don't start many threads and have a bunch of different questions about the game, I hope I'm forgiven for starting a new thread.

I'm mainly a PvE oriented player, I play mostly RPGs of any kind (Neverwinter Nights 2, Deux Ex Human Revolution, just to name 2 rather recent ones), I do play WoW a bit (please try to avoid "better than your game" flamewars), but I was never a really hyper-competitive PvP player.

I prefer to just chill back and relax with some nice PvE, shooting the breeze with guildies and friends, I guess.


My questions/"fears" about GW2 and why I'm "on the fence" about getting it:


1. How long (playing time) does it take to get to level 80 (that is max level, right ?), if you just "play along", doing just the sideline activities (like vistas), hearts and DEs that you accidently stumble across without too much exploration/research (and I know exploration is fun, I love Gothic 2, one of THE best single player RPGs for that) ?


2. I heard there are 8 dungeons, but each has a story mode and 3 explorable modes, basically making it 32 dungeons.

How much truth does this claim have in it, are the different versions really a lot like different dungeons, do the bosses, trash mobs, secrets and areas change, for example (I don't expect fully different dungeons, of course) ?


3. Is there an alternate progression system upon reaching level 80, or maybe even before that (similar to Warhammer Online or the new Diablo 3 paragon system, for example) ?


4. Are there vanity items/titels to collect, how many variations are there and how hard are they to get - I heard something about specific cultural outfits that you can appearently wear as an overcloak and dye them, basically like Transmogrification in WoW (sorry for the comparison) + the dyeing option ?


5. Some people claimed that the combat system/dungeons/dragon fights felt a little chaotic and/or penalizing melee combat - a friend of mine has some low level characters (he plays all classes at once) and assured me that ranged attacks from melee centric classes were not weaker than their melee versions (for example bows were not weaker than greatswords for warriors in terms of raw damage), so it wouldn't be a disadvantage to go melee in dungeons - my friend doesn't have first hand dungeon experience, yet, though.


6. Does the game feel "PvP centric" to you, for example, are you of the impression that balancing or a wide variety or skills are only focused on the PvP-side of things ?


7. I heard there are no "better" items as rewards at max level, just altered versions that are of the same "power level" than the gear you first get when you reach max level - are there exceptions from this rule, how much can these stats differ in one direction or the other, 10%, 40%, 95% ?


8. Some people claimed that leveling up crafting was "a chore/grind" and that the auction house (I suppose that's meant with "trading post", no clue, though) was under maintenance a lot ? Is this true, if so, to what extent ?


9. How are the crafting rewards at max crafting level ? Can you craft "unique"/hard to get stuff, that "rewards" you for maximizing your crafting skills ?


10. How does the "juwels" payshop system work ? How expensive are juwels, can you get them ingame/trade them, are there things that you can only get via juwels (think I heard about rare dye and/or character slots) ?


11. I heard you couldn't create new characters on certain realms for a time after launch and characters were counted towards your total number of character slots, even if you created them on different servers ? Are there server transfers, if so, are there restrictions and does it cost anything ?


I know some questions might come of strange, but it's just my personal perspective, not - as said in the disclaimer - trying to get negative/nitpicky about GW2 in any way, I'm not that kind of douchebag/attention whore, I promise.

Feel free to answer any (or, preferably) all of these questions in any order, every bit of information/advice would be really helpful.

Maybe I'll call for a close soon because of all the awesome insight you guys/girls provide and we'll meet in Tyria soon, where I'll try to be a helpful member of your appearently tightly bonded community !

Edit: Please try not to get too heavy into GW2 - WoW comparisons, sure, they can be fun and informative, but some people seem barely able to handle them in a constructive manner and some threads on this subforum almost got a tad derailed in the (understandbly) heated debates.

[DrakeWurrum]

I prefer to just chill back and relax with some nice PvE, shooting the breeze with guildies and friends, I guess.

This game is made for you.

[Deleted]

7) level 80 green itemisation difference :
http://www.guildhead.com/item/56660/...mithril-hammer : 147 healing / 105 toughness/ 105 power
http://www.guildhead.com/item/64434/jofasts-hammer : 147 condi dmg/ 105precission/ 105 toughness
http://www.guildhead.com/item/56665/...mithril-hammer : 8 crit dmg/ 147power / 105vitality

9) as far as i am aware of, crafting is the only way to get legendary weapons
Moreover : crafted mastercrafted (green), rare (yellow) and exotic (orange) items are on the exact same powerlevel as non-crafted gear.
Getting your hands on the required crafting mats is an other story

[DrakeWurrum]

1. How long (playing time) does it take to get to level 80 (that is max level, right ?), if you just "play along", doing just the sideline activities (like vistas), hearts and DEs that you accidently stumble across without too much exploration/research (and I know exploration is fun, I love Gothik 2, one of THE best single player RPGs for that ?

Don't worry about getting to 80. I mean, there's stuff you can do only at 80, sure, but this game is designed in such a way that you don't have to be max level to enjoy it and have fun. Just play it at your own pace, explore the world - half the time, I don't even pay attention to my level.

2. I heard there are 8 dungeons, but each has a story mode and 3 explorable modes, basically making it 32 dungeons.

How much truth does this claim have in it, are the different versions really a lot like different dungeons, do the bosses, trash mobs, secrets and areas change, for example (I don't expect fully different dungeons, of course) ?

100% truth.

3. Is there an alternate progression system upon reaching level 80, or maybe even before that (similar to Warhammer Online or the new Diablo 3 paragon system, for example) ?

There isn't exactly much in the way of statistical progress after level 80. It's all personal, cosmetic/vanity/achievement, and story (if you haven't completed the current story) progression at that point. It's not like this is the ONLY GW2 we ever get, mind you - it's expected that we get one expac a year. We'll see, as time goes on.

4. Are there vanity items/titels to collect, how many variations are there and how hard are they to get - I heard something about specific cultural outfits that you can appearently wear as an overcloak and dye them, basically like Transmogrification in WoW (sorry for the comparison) + the dyeing option ?

Vanity is pretty much the name of the game, in GW2. Different gear sets, different minis (non-combat pets) to collect, titles to obtain, achievements to collect, etc etc etc.
All exotic gear at level 80 have the same... "item level" so to speak, in regards to their numerical power (although with different stat allocations possible), which is currently the maximum threshold.

5. Some people claimed that the combat system/dungeons/dragon fights felt a little chaotic and/or penalizing melee combat - a friend of mine has some low level characters (he plays all classes at once) and assured me that ranged attacks from melee centric classes were not weaker than their melee versions (for example bows were not weaker than greatswords for warriors in terms of raw damage), so it wouldn't be a disadvantage to go melee in dungeons - my friend doesn't have first hand dungeon experience, yet, though.

Eh... melee is high risk/high reward. You run the risk of taking more fire to the face, but you also will deal much more damage as a result. All about how you want to play.

And yes, combat is incredibly chaotic. Arena Net wants the combat in their game to feel "organic" and realistic, rather than predictable and tightly controlled.

6. Does the game feel "PvP centric" to you, for example, are you of the impression that balancing or a wide variety or skills are only focused on the PvP-side of things ?

It definitely does NOT feel PvP centric to me. People who say that are simply upset that there's no competitive PvE scene for them to get involved in. Everything that's useful in PvP is just as useful in PvE, including condition removals and control abilities.

7. I heard there are no "better" items as rewards at max level, just altered versions that are of the same "power level" than the gear you first get when you reach max level - are there exceptions from this rule, how much can these stats differ in one direction or the other, 10%, 40%, 95% ?

Well, no idea on percentage comparisons (or whatever phrase is accurate), but you could find a helm with a bunch of Power and Precision (Power boosts raw damage, Precision is crit), or instead with Power and Vitality, or maybe it has Compassion and Concentration (healing and boon duration), or maybe it has Malice and Precision (condition damage and crit), etc etc. You can find just about any combination, far as I can tell - you should see how extensive the crafting system is.

For the most part, at max level, the "cool" rewards are cosmetic improvements, or else simply different allocations of stats.

8. Some people claimed that leveling up crafting was "a chore/grind" and that the auction house (I suppose that's meant with "trading post", no clue, though) was under maintenance a lot ? Is this true, if so, to what extent ?

A chore/grind? Hardly. I've had the most fun with GW2 crafting than any other online game's crafting system.

9. How are the crafting rewards at max crafting level ? Can you craft "unique"/hard to get stuff, that "rewards" you for maximizing your crafting skills ?

AFAIK, you can craft exotic level 80 gear for yourself, which is the maximum threshold of power. And in my experience so far, it's very much possible to craft gear and consumables for yourself that is useful while leveling. Seriously, check out the crafting system, it's not only easy to figure out, but it's incredibly complex (depth-wise) and fun.

Crafting is also the only way to get legendary weapons (they are just as powerful as exotic weapons, but they've got incredibly unique and kick-ass models, and require skill points).

10. How does the "juwels" payshop system work ? How expensive are juwels, can you get them ingame/trade them, are there things that you can only get via juwels (think I heard about rare dye and/or character slots) ?

You mean gems? They're not items in your inventory, so no, you can't trade them to other people directly. But you can sell gems for gold, or buy gems with gold. The actual pricing varies with market trends, so you'll just have to see for yourself.

11. I heard you couldn't create new characters on certain realms for a time after launch and characters were counted towards your total number of character slots, even if you created them on different servers ? Are there server transfers, if so, are there restrictions and does it cost anything ?

You only make characters on your home server. Right now, server transfers are free because guesting is disabled, but when guesting is enabled, transfers will cost gems (so you can buy it with gold if you want), and will restrict you from... I think participating in WvWvW, or else from gaining WvWvW bonuses, for a short amount of time, to prevent abuse.
Guesting is entirely free, and you can join anybody, on any server, for everything BUT WvWvW.

[wdh1974]

be aware one thing tho, this game requires ALOT of movement, so get ready to be circle strafing 90% of the time. its not like other MMOs where you move much less in the regular PVE grind, with gw2 you will move constantly which can get tiring and annoying(dizzy lol).

[TequilaFlavor]

This game is made for you.

That's always good to hear ! Edit: Also thanks for your expansive answer, DrakeWurrum, I really appreaciate it !

---------- Post added 2012-09-07 at 08:40 PM ----------

7) level 80 green itemisation difference :
http://www.guildhead.com/item/56660/...mithril-hammer : 147 healing / 105 toughness/ 105 power
http://www.guildhead.com/item/64434/jofasts-hammer : 147 condi dmg/ 105precission/ 105 toughness
http://www.guildhead.com/item/56665/...mithril-hammer : 8 crit dmg/ 147power / 105vitality

9) as far as i am aware of, crafting is the only way to get legendary weapons
Moreover : crafted mastercrafted (green), rare (yellow) and exotic (orange) items are on the exact same powerlevel as non-crafted gear.
Getting your hands on the required crafting mats is an other story

Ah, but isn't just 8 crit damage a little low for a weapon that already deal 800-900 base damage ? Depends on the crit chance, I suppose.

Edit: Thanks for DrakeWurrum's awesome answer added.

[Lily Crowley]

Stuff is already said by other posters here, so I am just gonna give you a thumbs up and scream GET IT NOW! It is amazing PvE wise (I haven't tried any PvP aka WvW yet so that I can't say anything about!)

[Deleted]

I'll answer a couple for you in my own opinion of course

1. How long (playing time) does it take to get to level 80 (that is max level, right ?),

Yeah, 80 is max level. It took me 120 hours with approx 50% of the world complete. I know people who have done it MUCH faster, I did not PvP and I did dynamic events and explored a fair amount of zones. You could do it in half the time or twice the time depending on your playstyle.

2. I heard there are 8 dungeons, but each has a story mode and 3 explorable modes, basically making it 32 dungeons.

How much truth does this claim have in it, are the different versions really a lot like different dungeons, do the bosses, trash mobs, secrets and areas change, for example (I don't expect fully different dungeons, of course) ?

I've done 7/8 dungeons on normal and 2/8 dungeons on explorable once. The two dungeons I did on explorable were totally different bosses to the normal ones and pretty much felt like different dungeons to me, can't speak for the others, and I've only done 1 progression path in each but I believe they are suitabley different.

3. Is there an alternate progression system upon reaching level 80, or maybe even before that (similar to Warhammer Online or the new Diablo 3 paragon system, for example) ?

Don't know anything about warhammer online, the paragon system in D3 means that you continue to gain levels after you hit the cap. The same is in GW2 in that you can continue to get levels at the same exp per level as before, your reward is 1 skillpoint only. You do not get more powerful, but you get a skillpoint per level. Skillpoints can be used not only to unlock more choices of skills for your character but to craft legendary weapons (which are legendary skins rather than super epic stats.) One legendary = 200 skill points (+ a shitload of other stuff!).

4. Are there vanity items/titels to collect, how many variations are there and how hard are they to get - I heard something about specific cultural outfits that you can appearently wear as an overcloak and dye them, basically like Transmogrification in WoW (sorry for the comparison) + the dyeing option ?

I believe they said there were 370 dyes to collect. I'm approximating that based on my memory. You change the skins of items with transmutation stones and there are an absolute ton of different outfits in the game - it's a very aesthetic and cosmetic based game.

7. I heard there are no "better" items as rewards at max level, just altered versions that are of the same "power level" than the gear you first get when you reach max level - are there exceptions from this rule, how much can these stats differ in one direction or the other, 10%, 40%, 95% ?

There is still item progression, it's just not the same endgame item progression as WoW. You still get white items, blue items, green items, yellow items (rare), orange items (exotic) and red (?) items (legendary). The stats do go up but it's not like the different in wearing a green to a purple in WoW by any means, but there's definitely an improvement if you're wearing an exotic set to a blue set. After that the main difference does appear to be cosmetic.

8. Some people claimed that leveling up crafting was "a chore/grind" and that the auction house (I suppose that's meant with "trading post", no clue, though) was under maintenance a lot ? Is this true, if so, to what extent ?

The trading post was down for the first 10 days or so and then iffy for the next few days, it's been up for a few days now and that problem is most likely behind us. I didn't find cracting a chore/grind, I found it a lot of fun, but I enjoyed crafting in other games too so I guess opinion is going to differ. It's worth noting that maxing a crafting skill gets you approx 10 levels so that's a nice bonus too.

9. How are the crafting rewards at max crafting level ? Can you craft "unique"/hard to get stuff, that "rewards" you for maximizing your crafting skills ?

You can craft exotic gear, you can also craft some of the mats required for legendaries.

10. How does the "juwels" payshop system work ? How expensive are juwels, can you get them ingame/trade them, are there things that you can only get via juwels (think I heard about rare dye and/or character slots) ?

You can get cosmetic items, boost items (boost exp, boost karma, boost glory etc), you can buy keys to unlock chests which contain fun/cosmetic items, and you can buy extra bank slots, bag slots and character slots. I don't remember the exact conversion rate, I thought a character slot for example was around $10 but don't quote me on that. None of it is mandatory, none of it gives you a particular advantage or edge, and yes, you can buy gems in game with gold so you never *need* to buy anything with gems even if you wanted an extra bank slot or bag slot.

11. I heard you couldn't create new characters on certain realms for a time after launch and characters were counted towards your total number of character slots, even if you created them on different servers ? Are there server transfers, if so, are there restrictions and does it cost anything ?

5 character slots per account, you get a home world which all your characters are on. At the moment transfers are free, that will not be permanent. In the future guesting will be enabled and then you can guest on any server you like to play with your friends, but you can only WVW on your home server.

[DrakeWurrum]

Ah, but isn't just 8 crit damage a little low for a weapon that already deal 800-900 base damage ? Depends on the crit chance, I suppose.

That's 8% crit damage. It's actually quite a lot. As in, instead of your crits dealing 1.50x damage, it now deals 1.58x damage.
Okay so it's not "a lot" but it is in line with the rest of the stats.



In regards to the character slots: remember that you can buy more of them using gold! Gems can be purchased using in-game gold, so everything in the cash shop can be available entirely for free.

[Kagasumi]

I just play casually, almost level 20 on 2 toons so far (one is 18, one is 19).

I love that I can just start roaming randomly and always discover something new and something to do. I come across events about to start, or in the middle of occurring. The events usually turn into a huge armageddon battle, with tons of players fighting off waves of enemies. They are quite fun.

I'm constantly being rewarded with XP for gathering, discovering, helping others. There are places all over the map for me to visit, quest areas, skill point markers, waypoint markers. The map is full of things to do.

Other players cannot steal my monsters or steal my resource nodes. XP is fully given to all that attack and do damage. The loot that I see drop is mine and mine only. Everyone gets their own copy of each resource node, that only they can see. The entire gameplay experience is designed to encourage players to help each other, or at the very least to tag along and join in the fight for XP. Normally on a game like WoW, if you see another player that is bad. They will steal your mob, or steal your ore. In GW2, seeing another player is good.

The game makes you want to explore, and the fact that you automatically de-level in areas means I will never pass up content. I took my Asura to the Charr starting area last night, and am having a blast checking out their cool looking area.

The stories and dialogue are solid. I enjoy listening to the cutscenes, when normally I wouldn't.

Even if I quit someday, I feel like I've already made a good purchase.

[DrakeWurrum]

Yeah, the big thing is that, with the lack of a subscription, if you've done everything you care to do, and don't feel like playing through content you've already experienced (let alone making alts), you can always take a break and come back with the next expansion. You're never punished for taking a break from the game.

[Deleted]

I absolutely loved the leveling content from level 1 upto 80 the game is great. Now on my level 80 warrior I find myself logging in and not having any goals, I just don't know what to do. I could farm karma gear (42k a piece set) but the thought of spamming events just isn't appealing after iv been doing them since level 1. I could do dungeon run's I guess but again it doesn't excite me and they won't keep me entertained for long. There just doesn't seem to be a clear goal when it comes to PvE I don't get it.

I like the game, I want to play the game. I log on and don't know what the hell to do that seems worth while :S

[Xucuroz]

Took me just over a week to hit 80 on gw2 and i was taking my time, some of my friends did it within a couple of days. The thing with gw2 is, the game doesn't change when you hit 80. You still explore and you still do events. There are extra things to do like work towards crafting a legendary for yourself, which takes a very long time. Collect armour for looks and then the normal stuff, like achievements, titles ect..

If you treat GW2s crafting system the same way you do in WoW, make 10x this item ect, then yes it will feel grindy. What makes GW2s crafting system more bearable is discovery, where you discover new recipes for items. Its all very simple and you get exp on top of it, so its totally worth the time. You can also make the end game armour with it, which is basically just for the stats. You can get different item looks by getting dungeon sets, ect.

Killing the World bosses can be a lot of fun. Claw of Jomag in particular was a lot of fun : ). Jumping puzzles are also a refreshing experience.

Dungeons can be fairly hard, even the trash mobs leading to the boss, so you really need to be on your toes and look out for the visual cues in order to dodge their attacks. Getting hit can be fatal.

[DrakeWurrum]

I absolutely loved the leveling content from level 1 upto 80 the game is great. Now on my level 80 warrior I find myself logging in and not having any goals, I just don't know what to do. I could farm karma gear (42k a piece set) but the thought of spamming events just isn't appealing after iv been doing them since level 1. I could do dungeon run's I guess but again it doesn't excite me and they won't keep me entertained for long. There just doesn't seem to be a clear goal when it comes to PvE I don't get it.

I like the game, I want to play the game. I log on and don't know what the hell to do that seems worth while :S

There isn't a "clear goal" because you set your own goals. Want to complete each and every dungeon? You can. Want to explore the whole map? You can. Want to get a specific set of gear, because you think it looks awesome? You can, and you won't be statistically weaker for it. Want to do TONS of sPvP? You can. Want to spend your whole life in WvW? You can. Want to play the trading post and make tons of gold? You can. Want to run around and RP your dramatic heart out? You can.
Want to do a bit of everything? You can!

You can do anything you want in this game, and anything you do will give you rewards at the maximum threshold of statistical power (except maybe RP, I guess, but that's a given). You are not specifically forced to play one specific content model in order to get the best possible gear. You may have to do a specific form of content to get a specific piece of gear with a unique model that you particularly enjoy, but that's not a forced goal - it's a goal you set for yourself.

[TequilaFlavor]

Thanks for another awesome answer, Shamanic - and of course, all the others, too.

A lot of my questions/concerns have already been answered/eleviated.

[Deleted]

I absolutely loved the leveling content from level 1 upto 80 the game is great. Now on my level 80 warrior I find myself logging in and not having any goals, I just don't know what to do. I could farm karma gear (42k a piece set) but the thought of spamming events just isn't appealing after iv been doing them since level 1. I could do dungeon run's I guess but again it doesn't excite me and they won't keep me entertained for long. There just doesn't seem to be a clear goal when it comes to PvE I don't get it.

I like the game, I want to play the game. I log on and don't know what the hell to do that seems worth while :S

Aw, makes me sad to read... but maybe the endgame isn't for you. I think there are three main things for me that keep it going, a) social - logging in to do stuff with friends and your guild, b) pvp, c) cosmetic - pimping your character out, which encompasses a lot of things like karma, gold, crafting, legendaries, and so on. Obviously there are side things like achievements and exploring and dungeons and storylines. I do think if people don't really enjoy the three main things then you may struggle to be entertained, but hey.. there are 8 different professions all with pretty unique (from what i've seen) skillsets... why not make an alt?

[SirRobin]

In regards to the character slots: remember that you can buy more of them using gold! Gems can be purchased using in-game gold, so everything in the cash shop can be available entirely for free.

Which I think is absolutely brilliant by the way.

And if that didn't settle it for you then just ask hypnotoad.



All glory to the hypnotoad!

That means, yes, buy GW2.

[Dilbon]

As for question number 3, after you are level 80 you still keep gaining xp normally. Every time you reach 250k xp you get a skill point, so you can eventually buy all utility and elite skills. Also skill points are used to buy stuff like legendary weapon ingredients (there's a thing that costs 200 skill points).

[Fencers]

1. Depends. Some people take weeks. Others just a week or so.

2. Yes, there are 8 dungeon zones. Sometimes the expo mode varies. But it's basically the same dungeon with new wings opened. 32 unique zones is more than a stretch and basically is marketing gibberish. There are 8 dungeons w/ various wings opened depending on route.

Mobs and bosses don't really change. The DEs are not very spontaneous from my experience. They basically happen like all the time and in the same manner.

3. No. But you gain post level cap XP advancement for skill points. Skill points which can be used for actual skills or crafting.

4. Ehh. There is vanity armor but almost all of it has stats. It is more accurate to say there is armor which can be reskinned due to the transmutation stones. None of which seems difficult to gather. Just expensive/huge grind. This includes cultural armor/weapons.

Mini pets abound.

Not sure about the titles. Don't care enough to look into.

5. Combat is chaotic. Though it only penalizes melee in that melee has a higher personal skill cap due to fast paced nature of combat.

That said, a bow ranger is as good as a greatsword ranger. A rifle warrior is as good as a greatsword warrior, etc. Weapons are more geared toward purpose. An axe might be better at burst damage, a bow at aoe, rifle at single target, dagger at conditions, etc. That sort of thing.

Everyone does everything about equally. Player skill is the bigger difference.

6. It is PVP centric. A lot of skills are primarily PVP based and the logic of combat is set up as to not be too differing from PVP. Just as the first Guild Wars.

PVE content is rather simple and thin in my opinion. There isn't a lot of depth to it all, basically an action game as you'd expect.

7. There are no exceptions. There is a hard cap on how powerful gear can be. Though don't make the mistake of thinking all level 80 gear is equal. It is not. All the "best" level 80 gear is the same ilevel, so to speak.

8. Can be a bit of a grind. Also can be super simple. For example, I maxed out cooking in 2 hours this morning.

And yes, the trading post was busted for a week or so. It seems fixed now.

9.Seems like a waste of time really. Though max crafting is needed for the top end skins.

10. Personal call. To me $10 is trivial. 800 gems is about 2 gold in-game which is equal to $10 worth of gems. Take from that what you will knowing the market fluctuates.

11. You are misinformed.

[TequilaFlavor]

Firstly, thanks for your great answer, Fencers, I really appreciate those extensive ones the most,

11. You are misinformed.

I might be - I only got this information from my flatmate, who pre-ordered, got into the headstart on day one and cursed and yelled a lot about not being able to get on the same server as his buddies, and how unfair and sucky it was, and how everything was horrible and "oh, the humanity" and what not.