U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[ptwonline]

Not sure how you can go on record that you are going to lower taxes, increase military spending, and reduce the deficit all at once.

Two ways:

1. Redefine things. For example, can't increase taxes? Just add on some fees. "Fees" aren't "taxes".

2. Rely on the magical budget fairy. You know, the way Republicans have been doing since 1980.

[Maleficus]

No but I have taken several classes on statistics and I know the danger that lies in them.

Haven't we all taken several stats classes? Yes, they CAN be manipulated...but does that invalidate every stat out there? Or just the ones you don't agree with? Statistically speaking, i would say 100% of the time it is the latter.

But i'm sure you'll disagree.

Regarding the stock market numbers...i'm willing to accept that (strangely) the market is doing well. Which makes me have to ask: If someone's response to the figures i posted is "Quit cherry picking" and then does the exact same thing by referencing the stock market... Well, it just comes off as a tad disingenuous.

---------- Post added 2012-09-13 at 06:33 PM ----------

2. Rely on the magical budget fairy.

Is this the same fairy that barry has been using? Wait, i think barry's favorite fairy is this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid_Man

Drink up!

[Lenonis]

Haven't we all taken several stats classes? Yes, they CAN be manipulated...but does that invalidate every stat out there? Or just the ones you don't agree with? Statistically speaking, i would say 100% of the time it is the latter.

For statistical data to be weighed on its merits you need to know the source of the data, the method of collection, and what variables are controlled.

If I walked into the RNC convention and asked 10 people "Should Romney be president" and then published a quote "10 out of 10 americans surveyed think Romney should be the next president!"....what do you think the validity of that "statistic" is?

Statistical statements without context are garbage because you have no way of knowing if they are true or not.

Regarding the stock market numbers...i'm willing to accept that (strangely) the market is doing well. Which makes me have to ask: If someone's response to the figures i posted is "Quit cherry picking" and then does the exact same thing by referencing the stock market... Well, it just comes off as a tad disingenuous.

*WHOOOOOOOOSH*

[Maleficus]

Then how do you win an argument if you don't load the first volley with cherry picked data?
You expect people to Think and not parrot? ^_^ That kind of Idealism is insanity!

Actually I think that is a weakness of Obama. He communicates in a way that assumes everyone is on par with his intellectual capablity, which is not the case. He forgets that not everyone can listen and extrapolate.

Better question - how do you win an argument if you never present any data? Doing it with feeling? Good call.

I agree with not being on the same level as barry. I know there are only 50 states, not his superior 57. I know it really comes across more elegant to pronounce "corpsman" as "corpse-man" because that's how them Harvard law review guys do it. I admit, i did not attend Harvard, so i pronounce it the old way. Most importantly, i wish someone would explain barry's "pie" speech to me. Heck yeah i like pie....but that was waaay above my level intellectually. i mean that stuff was DEEP! ( the speech, not the pie.)

[Grizzly Willy]

Not sure how you can go on record that you are going to lower taxes, increase military spending, and reduce the deficit all at once.

It's why the debt isn't going to get any better under Mittens. I think that cutting wasteful spending (wasteful being the key word here) while maintaining government revenue would be the ideal option, and Romney doesn't seem to be able to commit to that. If anything, he's the opposite of what I am. He's socially conservative, economically liberal - the worst combination. If he was economically conservative, he would understand what is necessary to fix this mess. For now he's the Republican Obama.

[Chrysia]

The real question is, why in God's name would any sane person talk about increasing military spending with a straight face?

[Lenonis]

The real question is, why in God's name would any sane person talk about increasing military spending with a straight face?

Because FREEDOM and LIBERTY and THEY ARE OUT TO GET US!

[Nadev]

The real question is, why in God's name would any sane person talk about increasing military spending with a straight face?

Because the military isn't just "blow the fuck out of Arab countries and plunder their oil".

[mistuhbull]

Because the military isn't just "blow the fuck out of Arab countries and plunder their oil".

No it's also "finger our buttholes in Germany while we glare at Russia"

[Lenonis]

Because the military isn't just "blow the fuck out of Arab countries and plunder their oil".

Given that we have two wars winding down, that isn't an answer as to why we should increase military spending.

[Maleficus]

For statistical data to be weighed on its merits you need to know the source of the data, the method of collection, and what variables are controlled.

If I walked into the RNC convention and asked 10 people "Should Romney be president" and then published a quote "10 out of 10 americans surveyed think Romney should be the next president!"....what do you think the validity of that "statistic" is?

Statistical statements without context are garbage because you have no way of knowing if they are true or not.

...so you are suggesting that current market numbers on jobs created / lost, new unemployment apps, etc. are all irrelevant? You want to expand the window in which we look at the numbers? To what point?

Regarding the trash and garbage statements...were the links i provided not credible? What kind of "context" needs to be provided for "New unemployment apps up to highest in 2 months"? Maybe i need to throw in some pie!

*WHOOOOOOOOSH*

*WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*

See, we all can make fun sounds! Which one are you gonna use next?

[Wells]

HHS also reclassified her trip from "Official" to "Political" and she repaid her expenses. That's good enough for me.

This right here is why I don't care much. Fuck up? Sure. But its not like someone got hurt. She said a single thing she wasn't supposed to. Hardly worth firing her over.

[Nadev]

Given that we have two wars winding down, that isn't an answer as to why we should increase military spending.

Honest question here: where does embassy funding come from? State? Defense? U.N.?

[Wells]

No it's also "finger our buttholes in Germany while we glare at Russia"

Speaking of Russia, and Kalynn might find this interesting http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ssia-no-1-foe/

[mistuhbull]

Speaking of Russia, and Kalynn might find this interesting http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ssia-no-1-foe/

When Putin is praising your aggressive comments as a US presidential candidate, you fucked up somewhere.

[Grizzly Willy]

If meme's weren't banned, I would respond with a facepalm.

I swear, he's Obama and Biden wrapped up in a bundle of ill formed policies ideals.

[ptwonline]

Speaking of Russia, and Kalynn might find this interesting http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ssia-no-1-foe/

I don't believe him for a second. I think he's just blustering an excuse to do what he wants.

[Wells]

I don't believe him for a second. I think he's just blustering an excuse to do what he wants.

Oh I do to. I just posted it because Kalynn was saying something about Obama and Russia the other day.

[Lenonis]

...so you are suggesting that current market numbers on jobs created / lost, new unemployment apps, etc. are all irrelevant?

holy putting words in my mouth batman.

I explained my comment. Taking one week of a metric highly prone to fluctuation as a measure of anything is not a great argument.

You want to expand the window in which we look at the numbers? To what point?

Oh, I dunno...to have an honest conversation? Do you want me to pick the week that had the highest drop in unemployment claims and put that forward as a stance that Obama is truly the messiah of our generation? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?

See, we all can make fun sounds! Which one are you gonna use next?

*AWWWWWWWWWWWWWW*

---------- Post added 2012-09-13 at 02:59 PM ----------

Honest question here: where does embassy funding come from? State? Defense? U.N.?

I actually don't know that one off the top of my head. But I assume based on the nature of the debate that embassy funding comes from the military (which doesn't quite seem right to me but w/e).

But unless you are going to now show how embassy funding needs to increase by more money as we should be saving by ending two military conflicts, you still have not put forth an argument as to why we would increase military spending.

EDIT -- back to Maleficus -- here is why it's terrible to use your number for unemployment claims as proof of anything

[oblivionx]

Neither would cutting aid to the needy, unless you can somehow validate the notion that cutting off welfare will somehow get people moving to acquire jobs.

I know Romney is on record stating that they won't raise taxes, but I'm not sure what he'll do to reduce the burden on the average citizen.

If you create the climate where businesses create jobs it goes a long way, best way to increase tax revenue is job growth.