Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Sturmcantor]

Basically. Line it up with cds where you can, especially pre 4 set, where you can get it off under AW every time. The major reasons why Holy Prism isn't as good as it are that it's hard to fit in a 20 second cd non holy power generating move that doesn't hit all that hard more often than about every 35 seconds or so and that you can line up Execution Sentence with cds to push it even farther ahead.

[Saferis]

In terms of raw damage, execution Sentence throughout a 6-8 minute fight seems to be simming around the same total damage as Crusader Strike. Take that into account if you want to know how much the spell itself (if used properly) can do to your max DPS. I myself can't wait to try it out at 90, as i have been too lazy to level up to 90 on the beta.

[Reith]

These are the total stats and assume hit/exp caps with the least wasted stats in BiS gear (reforged and gemmed haste, fully enchanted, no profession or racial benefits, hydraulic socket 500 strength included):

Tier shoulders + Breastplate: 16170 strength, 5051 mastery, 1944 crit, 7679 haste
Tier chest + Shoulderpads: 16056 strength, 5039 mastery, 2798 crit, 7077 haste

I didn't match red sockets for either setup, except the Breastplate. Concerning blue sockets: I matched only the helmet for the first set and I matched blue sockets in the helmet and the belt for the second set. Just looking at the stats, the difference for tier shoulders compared to tier chest is as follows:
+114 strength, +12 mastery, -854 crit, +602 haste

Even if you argue about how valuable haste really is, I don't think its value is so much in question that 114 strength, 12 mastery and 602 haste could possibly be worse than 854 crit. It's obviously better. White Tiger Pauldrons + Breastplate of the Kings' Guard is better than Shoulderpads of Misshapen Life + White Tiger Battleplate.

On an unrelated note, it'd probably be less of a dps loss if Heroism is used outside of our cooldowns with BiS T14 gear as opposed to T13.

[anaxie]

These are the total stats and assume hit/exp caps with the least wasted stats in BiS gear (reforged and gemmed haste, fully enchanted, no profession or racial benefits, hydraulic socket 500 strength included):

Tier shoulders + Breastplate: 16170 strength, 5051 mastery, 1944 crit, 7679 haste
Tier chest + Shoulderpads: 16056 strength, 5039 mastery, 2798 crit, 7077 haste

I didn't match red sockets for either setup, except the Breastplate. Concerning blue sockets: I matched only the helmet for the first set and I matched blue sockets in the helmet and the belt for the second set. Just looking at the stats, the difference for tier shoulders compared to tier chest is as follows:
+114 strength, +12 mastery, -854 crit, +602 haste

Even if you argue about how valuable haste really is, I don't think its value is so much in question that 114 strength, 12 mastery and 602 haste could possibly be worse than 854 crit. It's obviously better. White Tiger Pauldrons + Breastplate of the Kings' Guard is better than Shoulderpads of Misshapen Life + White Tiger Battleplate.

On an unrelated note, it'd probably be less of a dps loss if Heroism is used outside of our cooldowns with BiS T14 gear as opposed to T13.

Interesting, Match sockets then give us numbers to be sure.

[turgon]

In the beta,whats the state of retri dps compared to other melee classes?

[Saferis]

In the beta,whats the state of retri dps compared to other melee classes?

For T14H: http://simulationcraft.org/505/Raid_T14H.html

[Jinivus]

How is Simcraft using the engineering gloves balhale? does it delay any CD?

[Reith]

Interesting, Match sockets then give us numbers to be sure.

The first setup is so tight on hit that matching blues other than the helmet is a waste, which is why I didn't, but I matched blues on the second set. The first setup ends up with 2629 hit and the second ends up with 2555 hit. If haste's value ends up being less than 87.5% of strength once you've gemmed/enchanted/reforged everything else, then it's worth it to match red sockets with strength/haste for +60 strength.

Anyone using JC will have to use haste JC gems or they will lose overall on stats because even though it's only +320 haste, not using them means you're trading 640 haste for 320 strength and that's almost certainly a loss. 960 haste vs 640 strength. +480 per haste JC gem vs +320 per strength JC gem.

[Sturmcantor]

The first setup is so tight on hit that matching blues other than the helmet is a waste, which is why I didn't, but I matched blues on the second set. The first setup ends up with 2629 hit and the second ends up with 2555 hit. If haste's value ends up being less than 87.5% of strength once you've gemmed/enchanted/reforged everything else, then it's worth it to match red sockets with strength/haste for +60 strength.

Anyone using JC will have to use haste JC gems or they will lose overall on stats because even though it's only +320 haste, not using them means you're trading 640 haste for 320 strength and that's almost certainly a loss. 960 haste vs 640 strength. +480 per haste JC gem vs +320 per strength JC gem.

Haste's value is less than 87.5% of strength in T14H gear. Match the reds and recalculate. I'll post the sims for it later.

@Jinivus

I have it using them basically on cd with Execution Sentence. Lines up nicely with HA and Guardian, less nicely with AW post 4pc.

---------- Post added 2012-09-11 at 10:48 PM ----------

These are the total stats and assume hit/exp caps with the least wasted stats in BiS gear (reforged and gemmed haste, fully enchanted, no profession or racial benefits, hydraulic socket 500 strength included):

Tier shoulders + Breastplate: 16170 strength, 5051 mastery, 1944 crit, 7679 haste
Tier chest + Shoulderpads: 16056 strength, 5039 mastery, 2798 crit, 7077 haste

I didn't match red sockets for either setup, except the Breastplate. Concerning blue sockets: I matched only the helmet for the first set and I matched blue sockets in the helmet and the belt for the second set. Just looking at the stats, the difference for tier shoulders compared to tier chest is as follows:
+114 strength, +12 mastery, -854 crit, +602 haste

Even if you argue about how valuable haste really is, I don't think its value is so much in question that 114 strength, 12 mastery and 602 haste could possibly be worse than 854 crit. It's obviously better. White Tiger Pauldrons + Breastplate of the Kings' Guard is better than Shoulderpads of Misshapen Life + White Tiger Battleplate.

On an unrelated note, it'd probably be less of a dps loss if Heroism is used outside of our cooldowns with BiS T14 gear as opposed to T13.

On another note, your numbers seem low. My SimC profile, tier chest, shoulderpads, has : 16394 str, 2607 hit (so over hit cap, need to fix that), 3020 crit, 4453 mastery, 9111 haste, 2548 exp.

[Reith]

Yeah I may have messed something up. I'm redoing them and double checking the numbers. I got the tier shoulder+breastplate done so here that one is for now. I'll get the other one done as soon as I can.

Tier shoulders + Breastplate (GEAR ONLY! not including base strength or professions): 16650 strength, 2629.8 hit, 2561 expertise, 9369 haste, 4750 mastery, 1944 crit

Hit cap for the shoulders + tier chest is pretty easy actually. Reforge all hit out except the ring's, then haste+hit gems on the helmet and the belt with the socket bonus from the boots finishes the rest. 3332 hit total is 1999.2 reforged + 175.2 for not reforging the ring's hit + 320 for gems + 60 for boots socket bonus = 2554.4.

---------- Post added 2012-09-12 at 04:51 AM ----------

Aaaand I'm pretty sure I got the second one proper this time too. Remember, this is with no professions or base stats.

Tier chest + Shoulderpads: 16666 strength, 2554.4 hit, 2548 expertise, 8620.6 haste, 5058 mastery, 2796.6 crit
Overall comparison, tier shoulders compared to tier chest: -16 strength, +748 haste, -308 mastery, -852 crit

Fun fact: In tier shoulder set with blacksmithing and JC, with base haste + Darkmist Vortex trinket and Sanctified Wrath, Hammer of Wrath's cooldown is ~2.04 seconds.

[Kinmaul]

Wish guardian would just be 45 seconds so I could finally take t11 prot out of my bags.

While it's not changed yet I can almost assure you that if Ret's are using Cata gear swaps in MoP to min/max Blizzard will gut the set bonus. If you look back on other classes that have used similar tactics the result is always the same: set bonus goes *poof*.

[Reith]

While it's not changed yet I can almost assure you that if Ret's are using Cata gear swaps in MoP to min/max Blizzard will gut the set bonus. If you look back on other classes that have used similar tactics the result is always the same: set bonus goes *poof*.

... and yet they let it stand for 2 tiers beyond its intended use. o.O

[Kinmaul]

... and yet they let it stand for 2 tiers beyond its intended use. o.O

There are plently examples (mainly trinkets) of gear that has lasted for multiple tiers. Also two mage sets, t9 and t10, were able to abuse the gear swap mechanic pre-pull; the t10 swap was even usuable for awhile in Cata. Both were eventually fixed/nerfed so that you could not longer abuse the set bonus without actually wearing the gear. There hasn't been a single item/set yet that has remained untouched once the community figures out it's still viable after a new expansion is released. Thunderfury probably made it the longest, but even it was eventually nerfed.

It's quite obvious that the 4pc is going to make it into MoP at this point, but I really doubt it's going to make it through the first tier of raid content.

[Reith]

There are plently examples (mainly trinkets) of gear that has lasted for multiple tiers. Also two mage sets, t9 and t10, were able to abuse the gear swap mechanic pre-pull; the t10 swap was even usuable for awhile in Cata. Both were eventually fixed/nerfed so that you could not longer abuse the set bonus without actually wearing the gear. There hasn't been a single item/set yet that has remained untouched once the community figures out it's still viable after a new expansion is released. Thunderfury probably made it the longest, but even it was eventually nerfed.

It's quite obvious that the 4pc is going to make it into MoP at this point, but I really doubt it's going to make it through the first tier of raid content.

Well that depends if there's going to be a significant number of fights where popping Guardian on the pull is going to be worth it. That's probably why they haven't done anything to it so far. I highly doubt they don't know about it, but it's possible I suppose.

Oh yeah and kind-of on the same topic, if we're using Avenging Wrath at the beginning of the fight anyway as well, before we get 4-piece T14, we can spec Sanctified Wrath and activate Holy Avenger or Divine Purpose.

[Kinmaul]

Yeah it's pure speculation to debate if they do/don't know about it or the reasons as to why they haven't done anything yet. However if there are people running around with t11 in their bags for MoP raids past experience shows that Blizzard will make a change to the set.

[Rendx]

Oh yeah and kind-of on the same topic, if we're using Avenging Wrath at the beginning of the fight anyway as well, before we get 4-piece T14, we can spec Sanctified Wrath and activate Holy Avenger or Divine Purpose.

This was already hotfixed.

Patch 5.0.5 Hotfixes - September 14
General
Talents can no longer be removed if they are currently on cooldown.

[Reith]

This was already hotfixed.

Patch 5.0.5 Hotfixes - September 14
General
Talents can no longer be removed if they are currently on cooldown.

Nope, not hotfixed. Sanctified Wrath is not an ability - and I just did it a minute ago.

[Bonkura]

Nope, not hotfixed. Sanctified Wrath is not an ability - and I just did it a minute ago.

So what you do is pop wings before the fight to gain a couple of seconds? Or can you swap talents during the fight? I don't get it. ^^;

[Reith]

So what you do is pop wings before the fight to gain a couple of seconds? Or can you swap talents during the fight? I don't get it. ^^;

Have the talent unlearn pop-up for Sanctified Wrath already on the screen, pop Avenging Wrath, click yes to unlearn it then have a macro incorporate either LearnTalent(13) or LearnTalent(15), Holy Avenger is 13 and Divine Purpose is 15. It's the fastest way to do it.

[anaxie]

Not worth the potential of fight starting early and not having a talent learned atall. Same for guardian, the risk for guardian is not worth the risk of wasting progression time unless a hard nails DPS check fight you are quite useless in T11 protection tier.

It's risk vs reward and the risk is not worth it until it's farm content parsing and your death will have no real effect on the success of the group.