I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[DrakeWurrum]

Hmm..the chilling part is not half bad but overall yeah not a lot of love there :/

It's not "bad" but it's kinda.. I feel it's ridiculously restricting.

Look at it this way: Your Hammer attacks now apply a Chill effect! But only when you crit... and even then half the time. And only once every 45 seconds. And it only lasts 4 seconds.

Meanwhile, my Elementalist can pop into Water Attunement, and pop out Frozen Burst every 15 seconds, for a guaranteed 3 seconds of Chill, not counting how much Chill I could apply if I used the Glyph of Elemental Attunement in Water, over the duration of the Glyph (sure, 45 second CD, random chance to happen, but it adds up to way more than 4 seconds every time).

The "When you crit, apply chill" idea is great synergy with the rest of the trait line, to be sure, but chill is still an odd choice.

All in all, I'd like to see Guardians have more effective methods of applying Chill, if they're going to apply it at all. I'd honestly prefer for it to have a random chance to do a knockdown, instead of Chill.

[Deleted]

It's quite an odd choice, yeah. Did they buff hammer numbers too? It feels a lot stronger trying it out today

[Exedore]

Most of the guardian trait lines need to have more general options in their master tier. While this change was great for getting rid of too much shield, it just replaced it a different very specific ability. I'm not saying all specifics are bad, but there need to be more general options as well so that the trait line can be viable for someone that doesn't use a specific weapon or ability.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I'm having difficulty with choosing the type of armor and weapon stats now that I'm about to hit 80.

I'm looking for a more PvE focus build for Greatsword + Scepter/Focus with WvWvW as a side-hobby. I'm hoping to do explorer-mode dungeons and deal damage but not so much damage at the expense of survivability or being a liability. Honor or Valor after Zeal? There seems to be a disagreement on this from what I have read with one leaning on heavier hits (Valor/Crit) and the other leaning towards survival (Honor/Healing).

The way I see it, toughness will allow me to mitigate a larger amount of damage in a consistent way whereas having more health means I will be taking hits for the same amount but still going through my health pool at a greater rate.

I guess I could just mix up Knight, Carrion and Valkyrie gear or something along those lines...hmmm...

[Exedore]

I don't find condition damage to be good at all for guardian unless you're making a burning build. But because of how conditions stack, a condition damage heavy build isn't that great of an idea unless you're the only person bringing those conditions.

Also consider that many items can be obtained with the "Soldier" mod (Power, Toughness, Vitality). I honestly like that the most for using a greatsword and being somewhat defensive/survivable. To further the decision being complicated, 20 in Honor (+Vitality/+Healing) is very good with a greatsword build because of the -20% cooldowns for two-handed weapons major trait, whereas Honor doesn't have many useful damage traits. Even the 5% of Toughness to critical chance only gives a few percent at higher toughness levels. To obtain what you want, I would recommend mostly Berserker mod items with a little bit of a combination of Knight and Valkyrie or Soldier. You don't want to go overboard with Knight because its primary stat is Toughness, even though power/precision makes it alluring. You can also use Explorer's if you want the magic find.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Yeah, after posting above I found a pretty nice forum write-up in regards to a Greatsword stat priority which is pretty much what you've said as well so I'll look in to acquiring a nice combination of the above mentioned items.

[DrakeWurrum]

I don't find condition damage to be good at all for guardian unless you're making a burning build. But because of how conditions stack, a condition damage heavy build isn't that great of an idea unless you're the only person bringing those conditions.

Don't agree with that. IMO, the only logical way that Burning damage would stack would be like this (random numbers for sake of example):

Player 1 applies 10 seconds of Burning, at 200 damage per second.
3 seconds later, Player 2 applies 5 seconds of Burning at 50 damage per second.
6 seconds later, Player 1 re-applies 10 seconds of Burning at 200 damage per second.

So for the first 10 seconds, the enemy is taking 200 damage of Burning per second.
After those 10 seconds are up, for 5 seconds, the enemy is taking 50 damage of Burning per second.
And then after those 5 seconds, the enemy is again taking 200 damage of Burning per second.

I can't see any other logical way for it to pan out. It would just keep stacking on the new application of Burning immediately onto the end of the total Burning effect, one after another, as they are applied.

Sure, YOUR Burning damage can often be delayed as a result, but it's not going to be the case that YOUR Burning never happens, unless the enemy simply doesn't last long enough. Against short-lived enemies, condition damage is worthless for everybody.

[Deleted]

Given a high crit damage (I have 103%), precision will be the best stats to stack damage wise since there's no DR.

[zaxlor]

Don't agree with that. IMO, the only logical way that Burning damage would stack would be like this (random numbers for sake of example):

Player 1 applies 10 seconds of Burning, at 200 damage per second.
3 seconds later, Player 2 applies 5 seconds of Burning at 50 damage per second.
6 seconds later, Player 1 re-applies 10 seconds of Burning at 200 damage per second.

So for the first 10 seconds, the enemy is taking 200 damage of Burning per second.
After those 10 seconds are up, for 5 seconds, the enemy is taking 50 damage of Burning per second.
And then after those 5 seconds, the enemy is again taking 200 damage of Burning per second.

I can't see any other logical way for it to pan out. It would just keep stacking on the new application of Burning immediately onto the end of the total Burning effect, one after another, as they are applied.

Sure, YOUR Burning damage can often be delayed as a result, but it's not going to be the case that YOUR Burning never happens, unless the enemy simply doesn't last long enough. Against short-lived enemies, condition damage is worthless for everybody.

I figured it'd add it all up. Using your example :

Player 1 has a burn on the mob for 200 damage, lasting 10 seconds.
Player 2 adds his burn, so it's now at 250, lasting for 12 seconds (7 of the intial burn, with an extra 5)
Player 1 re-burns and it's back down to 200 damage, lasting 14 seconds (the 5 seconds has burnt away, but the intial burn had 4 seconds left).

The way you're describing it, would mean that anyone with really crap condidion damage would be pushing those with better condition damage off the monster. I know conditions do have a maximum duration, but i can't just see it being a 1,2,3 system like you've described.

[Deleted]

^ your example is really out of proportion, which is why it seems worse than it is. the longest burn we have as a guardian is only 5 seconds, with others lasting 3 and 1 second. other classes are the same well. for any mob which stays alive for a reasonable amount of time, everyone will be able to inflict the majority of their burning damage. the only problem i can see is if you have a ton classes who inflict constant burning in the same party, or elementalists who use signet of fire on every cooldown. it's a 9 second burn on a 20 second cooldown which could really fuck with everyone else. (though i've never played elementalist so i'm not sure how it works)

the reason something like bleeding uses intensity rather than duration is because they generally last a lot longer at 5-10 seconds each time and it inflicts a lot less base damage.

[Zdrasti]

Just as a side comment Ive had tremendous success in WvW using GS + scepter/shield combo. GS #5 and pull in any overzealous enemy. Swap and roll through them, shield #5 to launch them into your team, scepter 3 to hold them there. Pick em off, one at a time.

[solarbear]

^ your example is really out of proportion, which is why it seems worse than it is. the longest burn we have as a guardian is only 5 seconds, with others lasting 3 and 1 second. other classes are the same well. for any mob which stays alive for a reasonable amount of time, everyone will be able to inflict the majority of their burning damage. the only problem i can see is if you have a ton classes who inflict constant burning in the same party, or elementalists who use signet of fire on every cooldown. it's a 9 second burn on a 20 second cooldown which could really fuck with everyone else. (though i've never played elementalist so i'm not sure how it works)

the reason something like bleeding uses intensity rather than duration is because they generally last a lot longer at 5-10 seconds each time and it inflicts a lot less base damage.

It seems though, with the burns not stacking in damage, only duration, that bringing 2 Guardians to a Dungeon is kind of going to gimp you a lot.

I really feel like we need a trait to give us a speed boost with mele weapons in our hands on par with what other classes get. Every single other class has a speed boost that is weapon or trait based... It would be great if this was in the Toughness line, as it is very underwhelming... Meditations should be instant by default.

[DrakeWurrum]

I figured it'd add it all up. Using your example :

Player 1 has a burn on the mob for 200 damage, lasting 10 seconds.
Player 2 adds his burn, so it's now at 250, lasting for 12 seconds (7 of the intial burn, with an extra 5)
Player 1 re-burns and it's back down to 200 damage, lasting 14 seconds (the 5 seconds has burnt away, but the intial burn had 4 seconds left).

The way you're describing it, would mean that anyone with really crap condidion damage would be pushing those with better condition damage off the monster. I know conditions do have a maximum duration, but i can't just see it being a 1,2,3 system like you've described.

I see what you mean, but the way I've described it is the only way that makes sense.

Because Burning does not stack in intensity.

Also, no, you would not "push" those with better condition damage off the monster at all. It's standard FIFO logic. Everybody takes their turn, one right after the other. Maybe my example makes more sense with slightly different numbers:

Player 1 applies 10 seconds of Burning, at 200 damage per second.
3 seconds later, Player 2 applies 10 seconds of Burning at 50 damage per second.
6 seconds later, Player 1 re-applies 10 seconds of Burning at 200 damage per second.

Note that when Player 1 "re" applies his Burning, the first two applications of Burning are still there.

Player 2's damage does not happen until the 11th second.
Player 1's second Burning application does not happen until the 21st second.

I'm pretty sure there's nobody who can apply Burning so frequently and so easily or for such long durations, but when you have 40 people applying conditions to, say, Shadow Behemoth, I'm positive that's how Burning and Poison work. If you, as a Guardian, activate Justice... that's 5 people applying 5 seconds of Burning for a total of 25 seconds, but the first person that applies Burning is the first one that happens.

[Deleted]

one thing i have noticed in dungeons though is that i can constantly see the burning ticks. even if there are other people applying burns, i can see the uptime of my burns is pretty constant. maybe i'm just an idiot and i'm not looking properly, i'll have to test it later.

[Deleted]

This is the build i'm currently running in sPvP. I'm an absolute killing machine with this setup, and I recommend people give it a whirl. http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/gua...0|21080|21080|

Obviously it's not for everyone, but I've had huge amounts of succes with this.

[Exedore]

Don't agree with that. IMO, the only logical way that Burning damage would stack would be like this (random numbers for sake of example):

Player 1 applies 10 seconds of Burning, at 200 damage per second.
3 seconds later, Player 2 applies 5 seconds of Burning at 50 damage per second.
6 seconds later, Player 1 re-applies 10 seconds of Burning at 200 damage per second.

So for the first 10 seconds, the enemy is taking 200 damage of Burning per second.
After those 10 seconds are up, for 5 seconds, the enemy is taking 50 damage of Burning per second.
And then after those 5 seconds, the enemy is again taking 200 damage of Burning per second.

This is correct according to the wiki.

Sure, YOUR Burning damage can often be delayed as a result, but it's not going to be the case that YOUR Burning never happens, unless the enemy simply doesn't last long enough. Against short-lived enemies, condition damage is worthless for everybody.

Both of these statements are of questionable merit. On your second point, what is your definition of "short"? If it's something that vaporizes in a second, you probably won't even apply any conditions before they vaporize, so it's a non-issue. However, on a veteran or dungeon mob that lasts 5+ seconds, condition damage can be very useful, especially when you can be smart and apply the damage to the mobs that will be alive longer. On the first point, it's very easy in an unorganized 5-man group to have Burning up permanently on a single mob being focused. Besides guardian and elementalist, you also have engineers, rangers, and warriors that could be contributing to Burning. But probably the biggest contributor is fire combo fields. This gets much worse against champion mobs in dynamic events.

[theredviola]

So, I started using Purity over using Bow of Truth for condition removal. I couldn't really get a good feel for this trait, mainly because it was only going off in the heat of combat. I'd rather use Hammer of Wisdom for more CC over BoT due to HoW's shorter CD. Input on Purity's usefulness?

Oh, also, I'm running with Healing Breeze. Not Signet of resolve. I'll need to run with either BoT or Purity I'm quite sure.

[Deleted]

So, I started using Purity over using Bow of Truth for condition removal. I couldn't really get a good feel for this trait, mainly because it was only going off in the heat of combat. I'd rather use Hammer of Wisdom for more CC over BoT due to HoW's shorter CD. Input on Purity's usefulness?

Oh, also, I'm running with Healing Breeze. Not Signet of resolve. I'll need to run with either BoT or Purity I'm quite sure.

Not a fan of the bow (or spirit weapons in general), I've read reports that the bow can be buggy and won't cleanse your party.

[DrakeWurrum]

Both of these statements are of questionable merit. On your second point, what is your definition of "short"? If it's something that vaporizes in a second, you probably won't even apply any conditions before they vaporize, so it's a non-issue. However, on a veteran or dungeon mob that lasts 5+ seconds, condition damage can be very useful, especially when you can be smart and apply the damage to the mobs that will be alive longer. On the first point, it's very easy in an unorganized 5-man group to have Burning up permanently on a single mob being focused. Besides guardian and elementalist, you also have engineers, rangers, and warriors that could be contributing to Burning. But probably the biggest contributor is fire combo fields. This gets much worse against champion mobs in dynamic events.

The main point I'm making is, why use conditions at all, if they only last 5 or 10 seconds? There's likely a burst damage build that has enough burst to take it down

[theredviola]

Not a fan of the bow (or spirit weapons in general), I've read reports that the bow can be buggy and won't cleanse your party.

I was starting to wonder that because I popped it on some boss event (like the shaman in the Norn starting zone) and I noticed only I was being de-buffed from the chill condition.