Are Europeans Naturally Liberal?

[Jayma]

The Republicans terrify me. As in, genuine fear for the world if even so much as half of those ideas get put into place. How you can claim to be the most advanced and proficient country on the planet and then turn around and say "we're banning this cos a book about a guy who did a magic trick that was ridiculously overhyped 2000 years ago, MIGHT have said not too but having said that half the texts got thrown out and lost at Nicea anyway so we'll just follow the bits that people 2000 years ago decided was a good way to run things, with all their electricity and millions of people to lead"

There's a reason that the majority of europe loves Obama and hates Romney. It's because (outside of the French with relation to the Algerians, and then certain bits of eastern europe) black people don't scare a large enough percentage of us. There are swathes of America where skin colour and religion still matter, that's less of a thing in europe. Also, we had our World Wars over in Europe. Stand up for what you believe in sure but only if it affects you. Americans aren't good at that. Obama goes a tad too far for my liking but there's genuine concern as far as my circle of friends goes, that if some guy did so much as throw an orange over the lebanese border, military action would be Romneys answer to the unrest.

Americans are scared of black people..... really?
&
What does European tolerance of religion have to do with loving Obama and hating Romney? How does your ridiculous tolerance theory work when Mormonism is by far less accepted than protestant. Would that not be a reason to not hate Romney under your silly tolerance guidelines

[MerinPally]

Americans are scared of black people..... really?
&
What does European tolerance of religion have to do with loving Obama and hating Romney? How does your ridiculous tolerance theory work when Mormonism is by far less accepted than protestant. Would that not be a reason to not hate Romney under your silly tolerance guidelines

Maybe I should rephrase it as you can't read between the lines.

There are swathes of America where intolerance is rife. Those areas make up a greater percentage of the population than the european equivalent does. It is no secret that there is a large enough number of them, because they have their own TV station, it's called Fox News.

It's not all of them, the same as it isn't in Europe, but in America in the run up to the last election, it was a big thing that Obamas middle name was Hussein because it's a middle eastern sounding name. Over 10% of Americans thought Obama was a muslim and then on top of that, the fact that they believed he was actually bothered them. Now sure that occurs in other countries too but it's far more prominent in the US than in Europe.

[Deleted]

The red scare never really caught on in Europe, meaning the word Socialism in itself has never become the taboo it has in the US, where it seems to be equated with pure blooded Communism..

[Deleted]

^^ What is that, I don't even..

[MerinPally]

europeans are mostly socialists, cattle that want to be steered, eat that, fish that many fish, do that and that, if you are useless then we gonna give you money, after all we are in civilised world where jobless losers who dont want to wave a finger can live and be happy

You seem to be EXTREMELY anti democracy. You got a better idea? The world would love to hear it.

The only reason that we used democracy is because noone else has come up with a better idea yet. It's not a great system but it's not inherently bad, but it's the best we've got.

You also sound hideously anti-gay and anti-womens rights, so I think your rant that doesn't really say anything other than calling the EU a bunch of fascists amounts to practically nil.

Also, you sound like someone who is sitting on the bottom rung because they never worked, climbed 1 rung through luck then looks down below you saying how crap the system is, whereas 95% of the population is even above you.

[Kasierith]

^^ What is that, I don't even..

I stopped reading after I saw him sobbing about the evils of women's suffrage. Some people really aren't worth responding to.

[Deleted]

Gin why so republican and conservative christian?

[Deleted]

Europe, mostly is a swamp of socialism and European Union is a fascism at its best

What fascism? Show me an oppressive law passed by the EU parliament please.

and about homosexuals, because I dont want to be understood as "anti", homosexuals were in our societies for thousands of years, but in the last fifthy years it escalated to movement that in fact gains money from EU

Source?

[Jayma]

Maybe I should rephrase it as you can't read between the lines.

There are swathes of America where intolerance is rife. Those areas make up a greater percentage of the population than the european equivalent does. It is no secret that there is a large enough number of them, because they have their own TV station, it's called Fox News.

Wow.... it's becoming sadly more clear.
Fox news is now for racists and against the first amendment.

I guess all the US is missing is some more MSNBC's then.

[Deleted]

Can't tell if sarcastic or not. The man is suggesting Greece went down because it was Socialist, which is just wrong. There's nothing wrong with Socialism. If there was, can you explain why Sweden is such a success at pretty much everything it does? That's just one example, there are plenty more. If I remember anyway it was the American system that collapsed, not socialism.

I would hardly call Sweden socialist, as far as fiscal issues go. Sweden was near a crash in the 90s and opening up markets and lowering taxes helped fix that.

[MerinPally]

Wow.... it's becoming sadly more clear.
Fox news is now for racists and against the first amendment.

I guess all the US is missing is some more MSNBC's then.

I wouldn't know, I'm english, God knows what MSNBC is All I know is I've seen bits of Fox News when on holiday in Italy and France and oh my god it almost made me cry. You couldn't get away with saying that stuff on british tv. Seriously. You'd be cut off and the show axed worse case, ignored definitely. Maybe it's because I'm used to seeing what appears to be impartiality.

The one that sticks in my mind was a woman who left school at 16 arguing that pregnant women shouldnt take this pill because "we don't know all the risks yet" to which a journalist turned around and said "but it's approved by the drugs board and we have medical proof" and her rebuttle was "but we don't know that! there could be more! why take the risk!" I mean seriously? With that attitude you shouldn't stand in direct sunlight. Or artificial light. Or breath air that wasn't purified in a factory.

So essentially this idiot was claiming she knew more than the doctors with her wealth of medical and chemical knowledge. Another one was watching the "Bill O'Reilly show" and the call ins he was reading out were HIDEOUS, I remember one he read out was a guy saying that "the damned MUZZZ LIMS (sounds weird to me but thats how you guys say it) are ruining this country and we should kill them all because they're all awful and send them back, they do nothing for us!"

[SirPiken]

I believe one of the main reasons Europeans don't understand American political views is that Americans aren't burdened with thousands of years of dependence on government. This goes all the way back to feudalism. Europeans are just much more comfortable with giant powerful government.

Conversely I believe Americans general tendency towards independence stems from the frontier nature of the country's founding. People had to learn to survive on their own and relied on their family and neighbors instead of government.

[Wells]

I believe one of the main reasons Europeans don't understand American political views is that Americans aren't burdened with thousands of years of dependence on government. This goes all the way back to feudalism. Europeans are just much more comfortable with giant powerful government.

Conversely I believe Americans general tendency towards independence stems from the frontier nature of the country's founding. People had to learn to survive on their own and relied on their family and neighbors instead of government.

This is so self serving.

---------- Post added 2012-09-19 at 12:00 AM ----------

european law is ALWAYS treated above your country law
limits on production/gathering
taxation, administration fees
{...}
obligatory insurance in eu

theres much more, MUCH more

None of which are actually fascist. Fascism isn't "things I don't like" you know.

absolute illuminated monarchy.

However this is much closer to it.

[Kasierith]

I'm not anti women rights, I'm against equity but pro privileges for women, and yes I'm against womens vote

And why exactly are you against women voting in politics?

[Wells]

And why exactly are you against women voting in politics?

Excess of bears in polling stations.

[Mnevis]

Europe spent a long time in a very strict Lord/Liege social structure, with massive inequality of opportunity and wealth, they knew how willing man was to trod on man. Our founding fathers believed that a fresh start, with representative government and rule of law and freedom from kings and churches and such would break that cycle (or, depending on how cynical you are, they just thought they, the landed freemen, would be better rulers than the old lords).

As a result, Europe has in place more protections for the little guy, while we still believe that there is no such thing as a little guy, just 'people who are not yet rich' and of course, lazy bums.

So, I'd say no they're not 'naturally liberal', they're just farther along (in some ways) in cultural evolution.

And again, I call bullshit on today's Republicans having any claim on fiscal responsibility. The debt ballooned under Reagan. Clinton (and Republican Congress) got a balanced budget going, then Bush came in and destroyed the surplus with huge tax cuts, elective wars, the politically motivated prescription drug give-away. The government did not shrink.

Trickle-down economics and the relevance of the Laffer curve to the current government revenue has been pretty thoroughly discredited and you still have people like Grover Norquist arm-twisting every Republican to sign a pledge of no revenue (going as far as expressly stating the "Starve the Beast" theory) and Romney/Ryan's "We're gonna cut taxes by a few trillion, and pay for it by *cough* we'll tell you later *cough* FOOD STAMP PRESIDENT!"

Obama's guilty too, though not nearly as much as the right imagines. He came in with a insane structural deficit, and I really, really don't believe that a Republican president would have gone with austerity over stimulus, judging from history. I do think it's disingenuous for him to pretend just taxing rich dudes will fix the budget; this needs to be a 'we're all in this together' thing.

P.S. because it's the big thing right now, look back at history and see why so many working poor pay no federal income tax. It's mostly because Republicans cut their taxes, Ford introduced the EITC in the 70s, Reagan expanded it, Bush cut everyone's taxes. I believe that the real goal was (and is) cutting taxes (and regulation) at the top, since that's been the consistent element, not fiscal responsibility, or economic growth, or smaller government.

Oh, and trying to repress the vote is despicable and un-American.

[Deleted]

european law is ALWAYS treated above your country law
limits on production/gathering
taxation, administration fees
{...}
obligatory insurance in eu

theres much more, MUCH more

Which is not fascist and is all consensual between the member states.

[MerinPally]

I'm totally against democracy. of course, absolute illuminated monarchy.

you use overused slogan. it is the worst.

I'm not anti women rights, I'm against equity but pro privileges for women, and yes I'm against womens vote

rather opposite

I'm going to assume your "equity" meant equality.

So you're not against womens rights but you are against equality, you think women should get priveleges but should not be allowed to vote?

May I be the first to say (at the risk of getting infracted but what do I care I go to university on Sunday so I'll be out whilst serving my ban) on behalf of everyone who read your post, that you are an intolerant douchebag who should seriously reconsider their political views before spewing them out in public. I do not look down upon your views as that is hypocrisy but your views show a severe lack of any logical thought process, and your idealism will cause you nothing but trouble because of its sexist nature which is both demeaning and intolerant to anyone that isn't you.

On that note, goodnight before I tell you the full extent of what I think of your political ideaology.

[Jayma]

I wouldn't know, I'm english, God knows what MSNBC is All I know is I've seen bits of Fox News when on holiday in Italy and France and oh my god it almost made me cry. You couldn't get away with saying that stuff on british tv. Seriously. You'd be cut off and the show axed worse case, ignored definitely. Maybe it's because I'm used to seeing what appears to be impartiality.

The one that sticks in my mind was a woman who left school at 16 arguing that pregnant women shouldnt take this pill because "we don't know all the risks yet" to which a journalist turned around and said "but it's approved by the drugs board and we have medical proof" and her rebuttle was "but we don't know that! there could be more! why take the risk!" I mean seriously? With that attitude you shouldn't stand in direct sunlight. Or artificial light. Or breath air that wasn't purified in a factory.

So essentially this idiot was claiming she knew more than the doctors with her wealth of medical and chemical knowledge. Another one was watching the "Bill O'Reilly show" and the call ins he was reading out were HIDEOUS, I remember one he read out was a guy saying that "the damned MUZZZ LIMS (sounds weird to me but thats how you guys say it) are ruining this country and we should kill them all because they're all awful and send them back, they do nothing for us!"

well your opinion now has whole new validity.

Bits on a holiday and zero knowledge of the American news media is apparently all you need to know in order to label an entire news network racist. Oh I forgot a Bill O'Reilly call in. I guess it's not possible that every sector of society has a fringe. There are still democrats who think George Bush intentionally caused 9/11 so I'm assuming the rest of them must believe it as well.

[Kasierith]

Excess of bears in polling stations.

B...but we Russians love our bears!