Necromancer Discussion Thread

Deleted · 2012-09-25, 12:42 AM

I agree mildly with some of what he says, certain points [like about the dagger] are almost totally wrong/skewed/not well presented.

I agree necro is in a bad place atm, at least compared to other classes, but I think to start making realistic suggestions we need a properly working toolkit of what is already on offer in terms of traits and abilities, just for arenanet to say 'here's what the polished product should look like'. I'm aware that every class will have bugs, but I'm yet to come across one where they are so numerous and debilitating as the necro bugs, they also seem to hit the traits that you would actually want on necro, the traits bugged on my mesmer are the ones that I instantly overlook anyway.

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by woodydave44

"Speed stacking is a problem with all classes" doesn't count.

Um, yes, it should count, completely. The reason I point it out is that Necros are not "weaker" in this case with this situation. Their speed increases are just as strong/weak as any other professions. Hell, it's more than what Guardians get. With Spectral Walk, you even get 30 seconds of Swiftness, and you COMPLAIN about it? it's the longest self-applied Swiftness possible.

I said already that a lot of what he says is accurate, but a LOT of what he says is dead wrong. The speed stacking, the 5% damage increase? That's stuff that is true for every profession, which means that it's not a reason for why the Necro would be in a bad place. If one profession is in a bad place relative to the other professions, you have to look for things that are less than what other professions have, not things that just inherently seem weak. That's another issue entirely - if we ever convince Arena Net that a 5% damage increase isn't enough, those traits would be buffed across the board for all the professions, and wouldn't really change the status quo.

**woodydave44** · 2012-09-25, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

Um, yes, it should count, completely. The reason I point it out is that Necros are not "weaker" in this case with this situation. Their speed increases are just as strong/weak as any other professions. Hell, it's more than what Guardians get. With Spectral Walk, you even get 30 seconds of Swiftness, and you COMPLAIN about it? it's the longest self-applied Swiftness possible.

Great. Thats swiftness.

How is that related to bugged traits again?

I said already that a lot of what he says is accurate, but a LOT of what he says is dead wrong. The speed stacking, the 5% damage increase? That's stuff that is true for every profession, which means that it's not a reason for why the Necro would be in a bad place. If one profession is in a bad place relative to the other professions, you have to look for things that are less than what other professions have, not things that just inherently seem weak. That's another issue entirely - if we ever convince Arena Net that a 5% damage increase isn't enough, those traits would be buffed across the board for all the professions, and wouldn't really change the status quo.

Oh, nice. A few trait mechanics are bugged for other classes as well....

How does that change the fact that they are bugged again? They may not be the only reason for the current professions issues, but its still more stuff to add to the ever increasing list we have here...

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...-NB92-NT11-NP4

(NB0016) If used with Spectral Walk will cause a bigger stacked Swiftness duration to end prematurely.
“IE 1m10s remaining with self buffs, add another 40-60s from a guardian,
quickness ends within 20s of receiving that buff, losing the entire remaining duration.”

Theres your swiftness

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by woodydave44

Great. Thats swiftness.

How is that related to bugged traits again?

Oh, nice. A few trait mechanics are bugged for other classes as well....

How does that change the fact that they are bugged again? They may not be the only reason for the current professions issues, but its still more stuff to add to the ever increasing list we have here...

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...-NB92-NT11-NP4

You're clearly not reading my posts if you think I'm talking about bugged traits. Which I'm not.

I already blatantly said that, for example, Lingering Curse and Hemophilia need to stack.

I need to point out, however, that the speed stacking thing is not a bug at all. It's intentional. That's how they want speed increases to stack. (or rather, not stack) The Signet is not supposed to stack with the trait. The only this could be true otherwise is simply the case that it's bugged for everybody, which means this factor is equal across all professions, and thus does not contribute to the current "bottom of the barrel" status. I mean, hell, it's been true for all professions since BWE1, possibly even since they started their alpha.
I specifically bring up Swiftness because it's a speed increase. And Necros have the best version of it. You can't just look at passive speed increases and not consider how often you can self-apply Swiftness or use other mobility improvements, because class balance is not so easy. You can't just compare individual skills across professions in a complete void.

I have no idea if Quickening Thirst is meant to go up to 15% or not, but I get the feeling it should.

**nighties** · 2012-09-25, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by woodydave44

I'll post this again.

His thought out analysis of possible issues vs "He's stupid, his post is garbage" argument...

Which one is garbage?

I tend to agree with a lot of what he says. If you disagree, feel free to explain why. "Speed stacking is a problem with all classes" doesn't count.

Alright though it's pretty inherent why this is garbage post but I'll bite.

Now the best build I've found to date is: http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fQEQ...kjt+YUxJgXAzFA

That is of course really THEE only useful build Necro really has at the moment building around the broken traits, skills and lackluster abilities. And this is really only useful simply because of Epidemic which spreads conditions to multiple people which is fine for big melee's where you can stand off and create mayhem. But then again what class doesn't create mayhem if it gets to stand back unopposed and cast away.

Garbage. Not the only useful Necro build and far from it. Perhaps the only useful condition build but it's already made clear by many people that conditionmancers are gimped in PVP, so I'm not entirely sure why people insist on being one. Also, Sigil of Corruption for PVP? lol

-Staff

First off it is a totally contradictory weapon with an exceptionally weak spam able attack combined with an assortment of conditions. Simply put we are forced to take this because of the utility rather than anything it does simply because Necrotic Grasp is a Combo Finisher. I'd rather trade whatever meager damage this has and give it some sort of condition.

Though he does mention he uses staves, he's undervaluing its usefulness. Chilbains puts down a poison field that, when combo'd, applies Weakness. And considering how Mark of Putrid is a finisher in the same weaponset, you'll be doing it a lot. Oh, did I mention it also transfers all conditions from ally to foe? Because he certainly didn't lol. Yeah, you're forced to take staff because it's amazing.

Nothing worse than switching to this weapon in combat (as a condition Necro) to use it's Marks and then spending a good 10 sec's being useless as you spam Necrotic Grasp hitting for around 300 dmg a pop until you can switch weapons.

If you use every ability in staff, that shaves off at least 5 seconds because of the ICD and cast time. From there you can switch to DS, use your other 5 utilites, or you can choose to stand around like a wad spamming your auto attack. Garbage post.

-Dagger MH
So many issues. It's better than it was in Beta but still remains a Listless and unwieldy weapon. The only redeemable feature about this weapon is Dark Pact which allows you to briefly hold a target as "Someone" else beats the hell out of them. Because you can't do it.

If you built a power necro, dagger main-hand is amazing. Though I doubt he ever tried it with his FOTM conditionmancer spec.

And the rest of the post is much of the same. I am in no way denying the class is riddled with bugs, but weakest class in the game? Are we playing the same class ?_?

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 02:39 AM

The funny thing is that standing around and "just attacking" isn't really all that terrible. O_o

It's about timing, not about constantly spamming your skills. Look at how Thieves work, and how much we auto attack. We can't even weapon swap when we're out of initiative, except with a specific trait. (and even then, it only gives 3)

**nighties** · 2012-09-25, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

The funny thing is that standing around and "just attacking" isn't really all that terrible. O_o

And it pierces.. Staff = OP tier! Powermancers have the added bonus of their autoattacks not sucking the big one lol but this isn't about which spec is better, it's about the garbage post. (which is garbage)

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by nighties

And it pierces.

Oh don't get me started on that. I get so jealous of that piercing nature whenever I equip ranged weapon on others. Can't Life Blast also be traited to pierce?

**nighties** · 2012-09-25, 03:00 AM

Yep and grant might and apply vulnerability. Necros suck don't play one guys

Deleted · 2012-09-25, 03:23 AM

Thinking about switching to mesmer myself. Necromancer didn't turn out as I expected.

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 04:22 AM

I think you peeps are nuts. Necro isn't my top choice at all, but my characters were decided entirely by aesthetics. I had a blast playing my Necro characters.

Deleted · 2012-09-25, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by nighties

Garbage. Not the only useful Necro build and far from it. Perhaps the only useful condition build but it's already made clear by many people that conditionmancers are gimped in PVP, so I'm not entirely sure why people insist on being one. Also, Sigil of Corruption for PVP? lol

Right firstly I would just like to say that your random 8v8 experience is in no way reflective of the current state of the profession in tpvp (the competitive scene). 8v8 is just a zerg that is all about tagging people for big glory gains where defense is pointless as it rewards nothing and is ultimately futile when you end up going 4v1 every other fight. No thats not to say that I agree with his post 100%, I think its a tad on the nit-picky side but the point he makes is still valid.

The Sigil is a bit of an odd choice perhaps but when you consider that the team he plays on most likely has a very large win percentage you can see him going a few games in the condi-support role without dying.

Though he does mention he uses staves, he's undervaluing its usefulness. Chilbains puts down a poison field that, when combo'd, applies Weakness. And considering how Mark of Putrid is a finisher in the same weaponset, you'll be doing it a lot. Oh, did I mention it also transfers all conditions from ally to foe? Because he certainly didn't lol. Yeah, you're forced to take staff because it's amazing.

If you use every ability in staff, that shaves off at least 5 seconds because of the ICD and cast time. From there you can switch to DS, use your other 5 utilites, or you can choose to stand around like a wad spamming your auto attack. Garbage post.

Staff in its current guise is nothing more than a utility weapon. The problem is that if you want to use any of its utility you become locked out of a large chunk of your dmg for 10secs and in most situations that automatically puts you on the defensive. For example if you need to get the fear off to get that pesky thief off you lose any ability to follow up on it. So yeah I could pop the other marks whilst I wait but the thief is under no pressure what so ever at this point and the fight swings back into his favour. As far as using utilities go you would never just "pop" them because they are all very situational, your not going to be popping epidemic when you only have staff mark condis up for example and as for using DS to kill time before the weapon swap, ye Im not going to just waste that although being stuck in staff the likelihood of me actually having to use it for defence is pretty high so I guess your right.

Staff atm is great for opening a fight with, I will admit, but if you are forced to use it mid fight the sheer fact that you can't get back to your MH-OH combo for 10secs is a major limitation.

If you built a power necro, dagger main-hand is amazing. Though I doubt he ever tried it with his FOTM conditionmancer spec.

And the rest of the post is much of the same. I am in no way denying the class is riddled with bugs, but weakest class in the game? Are we playing the same class ?_?

Again tpvp is a totally different animal to 8v8. 3 classes will 99% of the time form the core of any 5v5 team (theif/mesmer/guardian) and the two spots left are far better filled by the other professions as they can do the power dmg build a hell of a lot more effectively than a Necro can. I mean come on, your build you were touting as great for pvp doesnt even have a stun break ffs, you wouldnt last 5 secs in any sort of decent tpvp without one. Power builds just don't hit hard when your a Necro especially in tpvp when glass cannon builds are limited almost exclusively to thieves and outside of Lich-form (which can be countered) you have no threat or pressence in node fights. That and you have zero mobility and bring very limited utility to the team as a power dagger Necro so when the point of the power build is for roaming dmg you fall way short of other professions

**nighties** · 2012-09-25, 10:50 AM