how does he have heroic raid gear??

[Deleted]

That's old news. GDKP runs have been going on for years. You could also buy a FL or DS run for ~100k-200k in Cata.

Well, atleast with GDKP's they usually only took good people that had done the bosses before and they got to see the content.

[Superlolz]

Well, atleast with GDKP's they usually only took good people that had done the bosses before and they got to see the content.

What kind of GDKP did you go to?
GDKPs consisted of:

A core group of mains or geared alts
A group of rich buyers (who may or may not be alts themselves)
A couple of leechers hoping to skirt by the minimum buy-in

LFR shows you the content too.

The cool thing about sell runs is that you don't need experience, gear or to do anything, only thing that matters is your gold.

[Deleted]

What kind of GDKP did you go to?
GDKPs consisted of:

A core group of mains or geared alts
A group of rich buyers (who may or may not be alts themselves)
A couple of leechers hoping to skirt by the minimum buy-in

LFR shows you the content too.

The cool thing about sell runs is that you don't need experience, gear or to do anything, only thing that matters is your gold.

We had one every week in ICC, we ran with pretty much the same group every week.
We did 11/12 HC 25man thou, so alot of people needed the gear (i didnt, was full BiS so i made alot of gold luckily).

[SunbakedDuck]

wait..when did they start selling heroic raid gear?? i understood that it will be for oldskool items/mounts and shit like that... why raid when u can play the AH and buy ur whole heroic gear off the AH?>.< fking retarded, defenetly wont resub now

[inboundpaper]

Mmo-champ, turning small shit into big anger for years. The chance of someone actually buying a full set of current heroic gear is so abysmally low that it could very well never happen. That is 17-18 slots to fill, at probably 100k+ each, out of a gigantic pool of items, think about it.

[Kisho]

I honestly will not be surprised if Blizzard starts selling gold by the next expansion. First RMAH in D3, then this in WoW. And the funny part is, the players will still defend them.

You mean the RMAH, where Blizzard takes a small cut to pay for the costs of running D3 (server maintenance, customer service, continued development, etc.), but most of the money is traded amongst the players? Of course, I'm not naive enough to suggest the RMAH isn't also for profit, but come on. They're a company. Profit is what they do.

It's also a very huge leap from the BMAH to selling gold. Selling gold would hurt the game, whereas the BMAH is designed to help it and promote a healthier economy.

We could focus on all the 'omg pay to win' ignorant arguments, but those ideas are from times long past. We need to progress further and think maturely about ways game developers can monetize their products. Instantly dismissing anything like the BMAH as some sort of evil force is not only immature, but also counter-productive.

---------- Post added 2012-10-03 at 11:00 AM ----------

And there you go trolling and provoking. 1. Never blamed you for disagreeing but for provoking and trolling. You bend statements to use them and bash on people. You take every word with the mos negativity wich only says more about you then others and again I can laugh at those people for playing the game different if I want to without saying the shouldn't. But to stop deraling this thread and give you the argument your looking for I will now stop commenting on you and just file a report.

And yet you're the one inciting the off-topic posts by getting so horrifically defensive. My first post was on topic and replying to yours. Then you get defensive and start calling me a troll. For the record, a troll is someone who intentionally gets things wrong in an attempt to anger and frustrate other people. All I'm doing is disagreeing with you, providing a different point of view than yours, and saying that maybe you should try to be a bit more open-minded rather than laugh at those who play the game in a different way to you.

This is the internet. People are going to disagree with you. If you can't handle that, maybe you shouldn't be here.

[Chrysia]

wait..when did they start selling heroic raid gear?? i understood that it will be for oldskool items/mounts and shit like that... why raid when u can play the AH and buy ur whole heroic gear off the AH?>.< fking retarded, defenetly wont resub now

The BMAH is entirely randomly generated. It has a certain amount of items on a twenty-four hour sale. The chances of you fully kitting yourself in Heroic tier is miniscule.

[Deleted]

Ah, Blizzard. Spend eight years trying to fight gold-sellers, then introduce probably the biggest incentive to buy gold that I've ever seen in the history of MMORPGs. I thought the BMAH was gonna be for stuff like mounts and old legendaries or items that can no longer be obtained, but no... BiS gear that can only realistically be bought by people who buy gold! Great plan.

It's all a setup to the inevitable time when WoW goes F2P and gold will be purchasable for real money like it is in D3.

[vizzle]

You mean the RMAH, where Blizzard takes a small cut to pay for the costs of running D3 (server maintenance, customer service, continued development, etc.), but most of the money is traded amongst the players? Of course, I'm not naive enough to suggest the RMAH isn't also for profit, but come on. They're a company. Profit is what they do.

It's also a very huge leap from the BMAH to selling gold. Selling gold would hurt the game, whereas the BMAH is designed to help it and promote a healthier economy.

We could focus on all the 'omg pay to win' ignorant arguments, but those ideas are from times long past. We need to progress further and think maturely about ways game developers can monetize their products. Instantly dismissing anything like the BMAH as some sort of evil force is not only immature, but also counter-productive.

*I didn't say the RMAH was not for profit.
*I didn't say the BMAH was an evil force.

Putting words in my mouth is not only immature, but also counter-productive to the conversation.

You know what Blizzard's reasoning for the RMAH in D3 is? "Oh, from our experience in D2, people are going to buy items with RL cash anyway. So we want to open up a legitimate way for people to do this."

All they have to do is use the same excuse for WoW. They might not sell the gold themselves, but they'll give players an outlet to sell their own gold for cash. "Oh, from our experience in WoW, people are going to buy gold with RL cash anyway." This is going to eventually happen. RMAH and BMAH are stepping stones there. BMAH gives players a need to have hundreds of thousands of gold that they never needed before, and Blizzard knows that. It doesn't destroy the economy, because no new gold is created but is just redistributed. It does destroy the integrity.

[Kisho]

Why does it 'destroy the integrity' though? What you've described is also something they've already done: the unbound pet from the blizzard store. Sure, it was a very short lived thing, but the foundation is there. They'll probably do that again at some point.

And where's the harm? What's the issue with this? It gives players more options in a safe, secure environment, rather than rely on third party, shady gold sellers who will likely hack your account after selling you the gold.

So long as they aren't conjuring gold out of thin air and are just using it as a means to re-distribute it, then there's basically no downsides. People who want to buy gold can, people who don't will not. It won't damage the economy because no new gold is generated, and it isn't 'pay to win' because the chances of getting a full set of gear is astronomically low. Also, any gear that can be bought from the BMAH can be obtained through simply playing the game, so there's no unfair advantage being displayed.

You've described something that could happen, but not given any actual downsides to it. You're worried about this happening, but not said why. What's the problem?

[Duridi]

Now that's an interesting addition to the game. Raid gear buyable on the black market I mean. I had totally missed that, as I thought they would only sell vanity items. I find it a bit amusing, I must say.

[vizzle]

Why does it 'destroy the integrity' though? What you've described is also something they've already done: the unbound pet from the blizzard store. Sure, it was a very short lived thing, but the foundation is there. They'll probably do that again at some point.

And where's the harm? What's the issue with this? It gives players more options in a safe, secure environment, rather than rely on third party, shady gold sellers who will likely hack your account after selling you the gold.

So long as they aren't conjuring gold out of thin air and are just using it as a means to re-distribute it, then there's basically no downsides. People who want to buy gold can, people who don't will not. It won't damage the economy because no new gold is generated, and it isn't 'pay to win' because the chances of getting a full set of gear is astronomically low. Also, any gear that can be bought from the BMAH can be obtained through simply playing the game, so there's no unfair advantage being displayed.

You've described something that could happen, but not given any actual downsides to it. You're worried about this happening, but not said why. What's the problem?

Because buying gold with real life money is the last hammer to the illusion of the game. It moves away from a form of online escapism, one where players are not defined by how much money they have in their wallets, but by how much effort they've placed in the game. It stops being an immersive MMORPG and becomes a better version of Farmville. Letting players progress with $$$ is one of the biggest things that puts people off from F2P and other games. The game should be separate from your wallet. Sure, you can have vanity things for cash, but when you pass the line where cash can buy you upgrades, then you've gone too far. I detest that aspect about D3, but it's not as significant as it would be in WoW, because WoW is actually a real world MMORPG, where immersion trumps everything else.

If you can't understand that, then you haven't been playing games long enough. And if you have, well then, we don't agree.

[Kisho]

I still find I can escape just fine into D3 even with the RMAH. I can ignore the RMAH quite happily and just enjoy the game perfectly fine. I'm sure I'd be just the same if such a system were implemented into WoW.

Unfortunately then, this would be one of those times where we simply cannot agree, haha. Everything you describe would not be an issue in the slightest for me and I do not see why it would be an issue for anyone else.

My personal 'line' is when the game 'conjures' items out of nowhere in order to sell. If players have worked for the item and choose to sell it, thus giving Blizzard (or any other company) a cut of the profit as a result, then that's absolutely acceptable. If Blizzard gave us a shop to buy gold in multiples of 1000, or buy decent gear from that no players have worked to get at any point in time, then yeah that's an issue.

At the same time though, I'm a very strong believe in the concept of 'time = money'. Either you put in the time, or you put in the money, whichever you value less. Value your time more, you'll spend the money; value your money more, you'll spend the time. Either way works for me.

[zshikara]

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Do people walk now with 192k gold? Is that amount of gold still a lot or "normal" or what?

My wife has 205K gold currently. I only have 75K. . .or I did before I bought a vial of the sands and a crimson deathcharger :3.

[vizzle]

My personal 'line' is when the game 'conjures' items out of nowhere in order to sell. If players have worked for the item and choose to sell it, thus giving Blizzard (or any other company) a cut of the profit as a result, then that's absolutely acceptable. If Blizzard gave us a shop to buy gold in multiples of 1000, or buy decent gear from that no players have worked to get at any point in time, then yeah that's an issue.

At the same time though, I'm a very strong believe in the concept of 'time = money'. Either you put in the time, or you put in the money, whichever you value less. Value your time more, you'll spend the money; value your money more, you'll spend the time. Either way works for me.

But if they did add a way for players to sell gold to each other with RL cash (which you're defending right now), then they would already be crossing your personal line. The BMAH is conjuring items out of nowhere for players to buy with gold, and players would/could be buying gold with cash. There. Your line is crossed, which is exactly what I'm talking about.

[Deleted]

peoples can have sick amounts of gold not like its hard to get, someone just bought mimirons head for BMAH gold bid cap, so yeh why are u even surprised or say he dont have much now he is probably pretty rich like many others.

[Kisho]

But if they did add a way for players to sell gold to each other with RL cash (which you're defending right now), then they would already be crossing your personal line. The BMAH is conjuring items out of nowhere for players to buy with gold, and players would/could be buying gold with cash. There. Your line is crossed, which is exactly what I'm talking about.

I should probably be more clear I guess!

The gold itself was not conjured out of nowhere, even if the item was. Players have worked for the gold to buy the item with, then when they buy the item all that gold leaves the economy, ensuring inflation is kept under control. No gold is being added, and some work has gone into this in-game, at some point down the line.

If it were Blizzard selling gold directly, then players using that gold to buy BMAH items, then that'd be the issue because at no point did anyone work for any of those items/gold. However, with the current system someone is still putting in the work, so it is fine. It's kept under control through in-game restrictions. Even if players can sell gold to each other it's still fine, because a player at some point did put in the work.

[vizzle]

Even if players can sell gold to each other it's still fine, because a player at some point did put in the work.

And thus, the illusion is ultimately broken. Those who invest time in the game to get things are only wasting their time, because the rich kid down the street can just borrow the credit card from his dad's wallet. Time = money, yes, but that should not apply to an immersive MMORPG. Previously immersive.

The mindset will change as new generations of gamers come in and the 80s/90s kids become their parents. Blizzard is paving a way for this crap, and I'm glad I'll be old enough not to be brainwashed into believing it's alright.

[Kisho]

And thus, the illusion is ultimately broken. Those who invest time in the game to get things are only wasting their time, because the rich kid down the street can just borrow the credit card from his dad's wallet. Time = money, yes, but that should not apply to an immersive MMORPG. Previously immersive.

The mindset will change as new generations of gamers come in and the 80s/90s kids become their parents. Blizzard is paving a way for this crap, and I'm glad I'll be old enough not to be brainwashed into believing it's alright.

So it boils down to caring what others get? I suppose that's why I don't understand it then; I just don't care about what others do or do not achieve in-game. If someone wants to spend £500 on an awesome set of gear, good for them; I'll have fun by putting the time in and earning it that way. It's still very immersive and fun for me, and that's all I care about. I mean, I don't think I'm wasting my time by playing the game and having fun. Do you feel like you've wasted your time after watching a movie, even though there's no tangible reward at the end of it? Or do you just watch the movie to have fun, enjoy the movie?

Perhaps this is what has been forgotten in this day and age: we play games to have fun. Just because someone else wants to buy all the top-end gear immediately, does that mean our own fun is directly affected? It shouldn't, at any rate! And it definitely wouldn't for me.

[melodramocracy]

Heroic items going on the BMAH is just the biggest bullshit i have seen in the history of this game....

It should just be vanity stuff on there.

One step closer towards D3's RMAH.