Syria Shells Turkey - Another Hostile Incident - NATO Defense Clause!

[TheGravemind]

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/03/wo...html?hpt=hp_t1

A while back, a Turkish reconaissance jet was supposedly shot down by Syria over Turkish airspace, killing both its pilot and co-pilot. Now, we have a Syrian shell landing in a residential area in Turkey killing multiple people, including at least 1 child.

I'm in a hurry, so I will quickly summarize what the point of this post is, but what I was thinking was this:

- Russia has warned NATO to not interfere within Syria.
- NATO contains a clause that says an attack on one member state (Turkey is a member of NATO) is an attack on all member states.
- This means that Turkey can push for NATO to intervene in Syria.

Could this be the beginning of WW3? Iran/Syria/Russia/China vs Turkey/the United States/possibly Israel/some other NATO states? WW1 began over far lesser reasons than this, by the way.

Personally, I hope that this does not escalate and turn into a global conflict, but I do hope that Turkey declares war on the Assad government and begins directly helping the rebels in toppling the Assad regime. That would solve a lot of the world's problems, and indeed, it would also solve many of Syria's problems.

COMMENTS?

[Gamdwelf]

Why nato, can't Turkey just take action on its own?

[TheGravemind]

Why nato, can't Turkey just take action on its own?

It can, but why would it want to go alone when it can bring its older brothers? Turkey has the prerogative to bring NATO help.

[Tart]

There wont be another WW, it will most likely end up being a petty squabble in some shit hole middle eastern country.

[anveena]

If Turkey(or anyone for that matter) wants to go an invade Syria have at it, I couldn't careless, just don't come asking the United States for help. Ideally though, the United States should stay out of this civil war and let the Syrians keep killing each other.

[TheGravemind]

There wont be another WW, it will most likely end up being a petty squabble in some shit hole middle eastern country.

Cognitive dissonance; you said there won't be another WW, but then you're saying it's going to be a small-scale squabble in the ME?

[semaphore]

Could this be the beginning of WW3? Iran/Syria/Russia/China vs Turkey/the United States/possibly Israel/some other NATO states? WW1 began over far lesser reasons than this, by the way.

Not a chance. WW1 began because the Austro-Hungarian Empire, one of the Great Powers of Europe, which has treaty ties to the German Empire - the preemient Great Power - was having a spate with Russia, another Great Power that was itself allied to France, which is yet another Great Power, and aligned with Britain.

What's Syria? Why the hell would Russia and China get involved with Syria?

[Deleted]

Syria these days is making me mad ;< people and their stupid wars... as if anything good ever came of it

[TheGravemind]

Not a chance. WW1 began because the Austro-Hungarian Empire, one of the Great Powers of Europe, which has treaty ties to the German Empire - the preemient Great Power - was having a spate with Russia, another Great Power that was itself allied to France, which is yet another Great Power, and aligned with Britain.

What's Syria? Why the hell would Russia and China get involved with Syria?

Russia's prime Mediterranean naval port is in Syria, and their sphere of influence in the Middle East has historically been based in Syria.

[Tart]

Cognitive dissonance; you said there won't be another WW, but then you're saying it's going to be a small-scale squabble in the ME?

Thats right.

Would you class the Iraq or Afghan conflict a WW? We will never ever see anything on the scale of WW1 or 2 again.

And in before people start saying Nuclear bombs will obliterate us as nukes are nothing like Tsar bomba or Fat boy etc. Strategic assaults may be made if it comes to it on home soils but dont think another Nazi war machine is going to come rolling across half the world again.

[semaphore]

Russia's prime Mediterranean naval port is in Syria, and their sphere of influence in the Middle East has historically been based in Syria.

Doesn't really matter. Neither obligates Russia, much less China, to get involved in a war with NATO.

[Deleted]

Russia and china won't stand up for that stupid syrian regime.

[Nilinor]

The problem with today's world as opposed to ww2/ww1 era's is that we are more dependent on each other for goods and services then we were during those times. That is not to say that there was no trade between countries, but if needed we could be self-sufficient during times of crisis. In today's world, super-powers and large countries cannot stop trade just to fight each other, its just not feasible, if neither side wins quickly, then both sides lose.

(I know this will be taken out of context) Lesser countries dont have this issue, because they are small enough to live on their own, sides may aide them with food/supplies, but not really full out support like in the war eras. USA/China/Russia would not survive without one another due to how big we have become. China for instance needs the US to buy/trade for all the goods and services, as the US needs China for said goods and services, Russia is in the same boat. Im not saying politicians are intelligent, and they do a lot of stupid things, but it is shooting themselves in the foot to go to war over something so insignificant.

[GennGreymane]

Um this is pretty scary news.

I do not think Turkey will ask for Nato assistance. Turkey will have a lot of pressure put on it to not do so.

[Tart]

The problem with today's world as opposed to ww2/ww1 era's is that we are more dependent on each other for goods and services then we were during those times. That is not to say that there was no trade between countries, but if needed we could be self-sufficient during times of crisis. In today's world, super-powers and large countries cannot stop trade just to fight each other, its just not feasible, if neither side wins quickly, then both sides lose.

(I know this will be taken out of context) Lesser countries dont have this issue, because they are small enough to live on their own, sides may aide them with food/supplies, but not really full out support like in the war eras. USA/China/Russia would not survive without one another due to how big we have become. China for instance needs the US to buy/trade for all the goods and services, as the US needs China for said goods and services, Russia is in the same boat. Im not saying politicians are intelligent, and they do a lot of stupid things, but it is shooting themselves in the foot to go to war over something so insignificant.

Nail on the head, it would be economically disastrous.

[Wilian]

To take part in this side of discussion too 'til the threads are combined, don't wanna miss anything!

NATO's international prestige requires intervention if Turkey is to require such due to independent nation bombarding it's town. If they don't, the whole system would crumble in the eyes of the world community as a working line of defense against threats. (which it already have been slowly over past 2 decades)

Russia has already promised intervention if western countries are to do so.

Let the world burn.

[Airlick]

If you honestly believe Assad and his military would commit suicide by attacking Turkey while not even being able to contain rebellion in his country... Well, you're CLEARLY watching/reading right media.

[Mavett]

and Turkey in response already shelled Syria, emergency meeting by NATO.

[smelltheglove]

i dont see russia stepping in, whatever they say. syria is all but a lost cause for them now, the best bet is to step back and court the new government when it comes. my money says russia cuts bait and prepares for the next fish

[N-7]

Aside from the news has the Syrian regime claimed responsibility for the attack? for all we know it could be the rebels who fired that missile in order to get Turkey to intervene. I generally do not trust the media when it comes to "our word against theirs".