We feel dungeons are rewarding enough

[AiAtola]

yes the commitment they are asking for is currently eating up all the time I have to play the game and leaving me very little free time to do anything else. It is wholly regressive and the idea that you need to regress to progress is not only counter intuitive it's historically not accurate as far as wow is concerned. I guess I'm just coddled right? They've always been at their most sucessful when they've done things that make ease of access work in the players favor. People leaving cataclysm was a function of them simply not being able to release content fast enough. Even still with 9 months of no content release they still managed to keep 9 million players. The current system of gating things is almost as bad as 9 months of no content.


As for the rest what exactly was bad about the cataclysm model? You've really only traded grinding dungeons for grinding dailies. It's an improvement in the slightest, at least in any clear unambiguous sense. It's trading one model for the other. In fact from a consumer aspect I would argue it's worse. It's basically doing more with less. In any event it's certainly not clear to me that it's better or for that matter that it has to be the only way.

Being in the world doing stuff is much better then being idle in Stormwind, the worst thing about Cataclysms was that, and they managed to fixed it. Props to Blizzard.

[Glorious Leader]

I haven't been completely lucky, my chest and belt are still quest items =/

LoL. I wish you luck in replacing them then

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 10:18 AM ----------

Being in the world doing stuff is much better then being idle in Stormwind, the worst thing about Cataclysms was that, and they managed to fixed it. Props to Blizzard.

Why is that better? I mean it's better if you do like running dailies by all means but why is being out in the world better? Their is no unambiguos clear reason why it is and furthermore even if you could make that case some people would still like to just run dungeon. Do you not feel that Blizzard can and should broaden the scope of the game to provide them that option that is just as rewarding? They've always done it in the past and it's made their game wildly successful. I honestly also can't believe I'm hearing this from this forum. The same forum that defended them every time something was nerfed and made easier...

[strangebreed]

weird i rather liked the cata system of being able to do 7 dungeons a week for valor, and not have to deal with pugs almost every day of my life ( not all pugs are bad but one bad one in a day will put me in a bad mood for awhile). I don't like the gear coming from dailys and rep, i would do the reps anyways since i love me achievements and mounts but i don't like having to do them right away to get gear :/ its a pain in the ass. Dungeons aren't "rewarding" to me whether they give rep or not, rep would make them feel better to me but it wouldn't fix the whole 30 valor points a dungeon pain. I don't see how this is even remotely more rewarding than previously.

[AiAtola]

No. I blame Blizzard for abandoning a model they had for gearing that had been amazingly successful and wildly lauded for years. I guess I'm just coddled and entitled and need my obamacare?

You must be trolling, everyone hates that system you are describing.

[Glorious Leader]

You must be trolling, everyone hates that system you are describing.

Everybody hates getting gear from justice vendors? Or valor gear? You must be joking. I heard ALOT of complaints about cataclysm. I never recall hearing OH MAN FUCK THOSE JUSTICE VENDORS..or at least not that often.

[AiAtola]

LoL. I wish you luck in replacing them then

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 10:18 AM ----------



Why is that better? I mean it's better if you do like running dailies by all means but why is being out in the world better? Their is no unambiguos clear reason why it is and furthermore even if you could make that case some people would still like to just run dungeon. Do you not feel that Blizzard can and should broaden the scope of the game to provide them that option that is just as rewarding? They've always done it in the past and it's made their game wildly successful. I honestly also can't believe I'm hearing this from this forum. The same forum that defended them every time something was nerfed and made easier...

Its WORLD of Warcraft, not Instances of Warcraft, being idle in main citys for 2 years can cause brain damage.

[Glorious Leader]

. I don't see how this is even remotely more rewarding than previously.

Because it isn't. It's just a trade from one thing to the other. Instead of grinding dungeons for rep you now grind dailies for rep. Their was a nice little synergy between grinding dungeons and getting rep but they tossed that out and tossed out most of what made running dungeons worthwhile.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 10:23 AM ----------

Its WORLD of Warcraft, not Instances of Warcraft, being idle in main citys for 2 years can cause brain damage.

Again that isn't clear to me why it's better. I mean the dungeons exist in the world I presume, their not out somewhere in De Sitter space. It still isn't clear to me that that is a better model by any means. It is basically just a trade off.

[AiAtola]

Everybody hates getting gear from justice vendors? Or valor gear? You must be joking. I heard ALOT of complaints about cataclysm. I never recall hearing OH MAN FUCK THOSE JUSTICE VENDORS..or at least not that often.

Alot of people hate the justice/valor system, people like me that played this game since 2004. TBC badge welfare gear was a big mistake, you shouldn't get gear just becouse you exist.

[Elim Garak]

Alot of people hate the justice/valor system, people like me that played this game since 2004.

That doesn't compute. People like you are certainly not in "a lot" quantity.

[AiAtola]

Because it isn't. It's just a trade from one thing to the other. Instead of grinding dungeons for rep you now grind dailies for rep. Their was a nice little synergy between grinding dungeons and getting rep but they tossed that out and tossed out most of what made running dungeons worthwhile.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 10:23 AM ----------



Again that isn't clear to me why it's better. I mean the dungeons exist in the world I presume, their not out somewhere in De Sitter space. It still isn't clear to me that that is a better model by any means. It is basically just a trade off.

It's an MMO-RPG, people should be playing in the Open World and not be stuck in main cities 99% of the time. And yes the instances entraces are in the world, but the instances are in "De Sitter space", also people use the teleport LFD tool so it made the world empty. That was the main problem with Cataclysm, that expansion didn't had the epic WoW feeling.

People want to play World of Warcraft, the epic MMO-RPG, not Stormwind of Warcraft.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 11:34 AM ----------

That doesn't compute. People like you are certainly not in "a lot" quantity.

Translator?

[Elim Garak]

It's an MMO-RPG, people should

Have you just told people how to play the game?

[AiAtola]

Have you just told people how to play the game?

<Snip>

Mod Edit: Please don't post meme's, thanks!

[Drfireburns]

Just to chime in. He's actually right.

I've been in top raiding guilds for most of my WoW lifetime and almost everybody in those circles disliked justice (and later valor) points vendors since they were first introduced in TBC. They were specifically called welfare vendors then and people wearing JP or VP gear was mocked as badly as people wearing PvP gear in dungeons and would get you kicked from groups back then.

So yeah... JP and VP vendors always carried around a bit of a stigma for a while. This has been less prevalent the past few years though.

Of course it has... It's made the game easier for people who did NOT want to put the time into raiding for gear. The same for people wearing PVP gear in 5 mans/raids.

[Deleted]

Being in the world doing stuff is much better then being idle in Stormwind

There are roughly two ways to deal with the current situation:

- Go into the world to do dailies,
or
- play Starcraft instead.

Blizzard keeps close track of people's activities in the game. The fact they already nerfed reputation requirements and boosted Justice gear less than two weeks after the expansion was released is a clear indication things are not working out the way they hoped/expected.

[AiAtola]

There are roughly two ways to deal with the current situation:

- Go into the world to do dailies,
or
- play Starcraft instead.

Blizzard keeps close track of people's activities in the game. The fact they already nerfed reputation requirements and boosted Justice gear less than two weeks after the expansion was released is a clear indication things are not working out the way they hoped/expected.

[Deleted]

The excrement is on your side.

When Blizzard nerfs content less than two weeks after it has been released, and just days after many people hit 90, it means they're not happy with what's happening ingame at max level.

[Deleted]

i thought bout coming back after ~3 month break - but
If its one thing i hate about WoW its "daily quests".

You can send me running the same dungeon over and over - for gear, rep, points, fun, whatever. I never had a negative thought about tbc while running non-hcs for rep to get the heroic-key (and learning to play my class in a not-so-punitive-world); i remember doing the "3 mark mecha run", running utgarde keep for over one month on a daily basis for my tanking-sword. I like dungeons + raids (i prefer the slight more difficult ones instead of the wotlk-zergfests)

Worst time in WoW? Fireland-Dailys (for gear + acvs), TolBarad-Dailys (for tank-trinket with 4 chars), Shattered Sun dailys, ogrilla a.s.o. not to forget you HAVE to quest 2/3 of deepholme to get neutral with therazane with every non-inscriptioneer-toon.

They removed the "you have to"-daily dungeon thingy long ago - great move. But then introduce dailys for gear again?

I'm not a big fan of questing - sure, leveling=questing and that's ok - but questing at maxlevel? nah... that's what alts are for

Tenor was, they want players to have the decision what they want to do - but you don't have it. You "have" to do dungeons till you have your set complete and you HAVE to do your dailys. Dungeons afterwards give next-to-zero award AND are just a simple zergfest.

So i assume, mop is the worst that could happen for me and i should not come back



p.s.: tell me the difference in "5 people running silent through a dungeon" and "5-10 people gathering daily-quest-items without communicating" other then "one is instanced, one is in open world". (playing on a pve-server, so pvp+ganking is not a valid reason for me)

[Deleted]

It's an MMO-RPG, people should be playing in the Open World and not be stuck in main cities 99% of the time. And yes the instances entraces are in the world, but the instances are in "De Sitter space", also people use the teleport LFD tool so it made the world empty. That was the main problem with Cataclysm, that expansion didn't had the epic WoW feeling.

People want to play World of Warcraft, the epic MMO-RPG, not Stormwind of Warcraft.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 11:34 AM ----------



Translator?

So you've been playing wow since 2004? You must've started playing as a toddler then because the way you communicate seems to suggest you're about 14 years old. There's a lot of valid thoughts being made about the lack of rewarding gameplay at the moment and how they switched from getting gear in dungeons to getting gear by doing dailes. I've also played since 2004. So if that is what makes your arguments valid then we're at a stalemate since I agree with the OP.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 03:58 PM ----------

i thought bout coming back after ~3 month break - but
If its one thing i hate about WoW its "daily quests".

You can send me running the same dungeon over and over - for gear, rep, points, fun, whatever. I never had a negative thought about tbc while running non-hcs for rep to get the heroic-key (and learning to play my class in a not-so-punitive-world); i remember doing the "3 mark mecha run", running utgarde keep for over one month on a daily basis for my tanking-sword. I like dungeons + raids (i prefer the slight more difficult ones instead of the wotlk-zergfests)

Worst time in WoW? Fireland-Dailys (for gear + acvs), TolBarad-Dailys (for tank-trinket with 4 chars), Shattered Sun dailys, ogrilla a.s.o. not to forget you HAVE to quest 2/3 of deepholme to get neutral with therazane with every non-inscriptioneer-toon.

They removed the "you have to"-daily dungeon thingy long ago - great move. But then introduce dailys for gear again?

I'm not a big fan of questing - sure, leveling=questing and that's ok - but questing at maxlevel? nah... that's what alts are for

Tenor was, they want players to have the decision what they want to do - but you don't have it. You "have" to do dungeons till you have your set complete and you HAVE to do your dailys. Dungeons afterwards give next-to-zero award AND are just a simple zergfest.

So i assume, mop is the worst that could happen for me and i should not come back



p.s.: tell me the difference in "5 people running silent through a dungeon" and "5-10 people gathering daily-quest-items without communicating" other then "one is instanced, one is in open world". (playing on a pve-server, so pvp+ganking is not a valid reason for me)

You've put words to my thoughts.

[AiAtola]

i thought bout coming back after ~3 month break - but
If its one thing i hate about WoW its "daily quests".

You can send me running the same dungeon over and over - for gear, rep, points, fun, whatever. I never had a negative thought about tbc while running non-hcs for rep to get the heroic-key (and learning to play my class in a not-so-punitive-world); i remember doing the "3 mark mecha run", running utgarde keep for over one month on a daily basis for my tanking-sword. I like dungeons + raids (i prefer the slight more difficult ones instead of the wotlk-zergfests)

Worst time in WoW? Fireland-Dailys (for gear + acvs), TolBarad-Dailys (for tank-trinket with 4 chars), Shattered Sun dailys, ogrilla a.s.o. not to forget you HAVE to quest 2/3 of deepholme to get neutral with therazane with every non-inscriptioneer-toon.

They removed the "you have to"-daily dungeon thingy long ago - great move. But then introduce dailys for gear again?

I'm not a big fan of questing - sure, leveling=questing and that's ok - but questing at maxlevel? nah... that's what alts are for

Tenor was, they want players to have the decision what they want to do - but you don't have it. You "have" to do dungeons till you have your set complete and you HAVE to do your dailys. Dungeons afterwards give next-to-zero award AND are just a simple zergfest.

So i assume, mop is the worst that could happen for me and i should not come back



p.s.: tell me the difference in "5 people running silent through a dungeon" and "5-10 people gathering daily-quest-items without communicating" other then "one is instanced, one is in open world". (playing on a pve-server, so pvp+ganking is not a valid reason for me)

Jesus, the worst times for you where the best times for me in WoW lol. Quel'thalas Island was so epic, the w-pvp back then is something i will never forget.

[ruwon]

You've got to be kidding me. This has been the least rewarding dungeon experience I've ever had in this game and I"ve been grinding my face off in dungeons for at least 6 years now. It's piss easy so theirs no sense of personal reward from it. The rate that you acquire jp and vp at is slow as hell so it doesn't feel rewarding from a gear perspective. The JP is also worthless because the gear is just so bad. The drops you need are subject to such huge amounts of rng I end up leaving dungeons before they finish anyway because the boss I need doesn't drop the loot I need. I don't get rep and it doesn't look like their going to make that happen any time soon. WHAT THE FUCK IS REWARDING ABOUT DUNGEONS? Look I swore I would never start a thread in this general forum because it will just get shouted down but I can't fucking help it. Please don't shout this down with bullshit, I'm just so stunned they feel this way.

You lost all credability from the bolded section.