I miss D2

[Shinzai]

Yeah I find the game mechanics to be quite amazing; could use a longer and better story. The thing that sucks infinitely about it is the terrible loot philosophy that kills all joy. You MUST use the AH and unless you either spend real money or play relentlessly long you will never ever get enough gold to get geared to do inferno.

How to make it fun:

Make stuff drop more good items
Basically don't force the AH on people, thats what killed it for me

As a tank Barb, who dabbled with WW prior to the gear/talent upgrades, I only used the Gold AH for a few items to get me further into Inferno Act 3. I never farmed gold like a nutjob or bought anything with real money, because I had no desire to. With the nerfs that came to all of Inferno, I don't really see why people are still struggling so hard to get anything done, most weapons are vastly superior to what was available previously and all the content is easier.

[Firecrest]

Gonna have to agree with Shinzai on this point (despite his zinger). Next to no effort is required anymore to roll through Inferno. "Good" gear is dirt cheap on the GAH and Inferno gets markedly easier with every single patch. 1.05 will reduce the difficulty by another 25% and allow the player to use MP to drop it even further.

The thing that's expensive is "great" gear. People with 1-star gear complain because they can't afford 5-star gear when all they really need is 3-star gear to beat the game with their eyes closed.

[Shinzai]

Gonna have to agree with Shinzai on this point (despite his zinger). Next to no effort is required anymore to roll through Inferno. "Good" gear is dirt cheap on the GAH and Inferno gets markedly easier with every single patch. 1.05 will reduce the difficulty by another 25% and allow the player to use MP to drop it even further.

The thing that's expensive is "great" gear. People with 1-star gear complain because they can't afford 5-star gear when all they really need is 3-star gear to beat the game with their eyes closed.

I'm a douchebag like that.

What Diablo 3 needs now, which would shut everyone up, is an expansion pack. With nothing but 10 new areas in. It could have recycled mobs and items and it seems like most people would have nothing to complain about. Despite all that people go on about hating the game and such, it just needs more in my opinion. After going through it all on a DH with friends and Warr on my own, I don't really feel like playing it any more, been to the Pony Level, seen Inferno Diablo, still don't have the best gear in the game or capped Paragon. If there were another bunch of zones to run through though, I'd still be playing it, with 0 care for plot or reason for the area's existence.

[chadwix]

Next to no effort is required anymore to roll through Inferno.

There never was, there were just broken monsters that ignored resists and armor. Artificially difficulty, like with the nrg dodge mechanic.

[Biged781]

There are many, many reasons as to why D3 doesn't live up to the Diablo name, some obvious, some subtle, but all in all, it's an ok game for a few play-throughs and then it is just boring as hell. Lack of randomized areas, garbage drops, the AH (RM & G), an MMO mentality when it comes to "game balance" (who the hell wants balance in an ARPG?), it just all leads to a game that isn't very interesting long term. The group who made D3 just didn't get what made DII so successful for such a long time. It's a shame.

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 07:09 PM ----------

On the plus side; Marvel Heroes looks to be pretty awesome, can't wait.

[panterarules]

I find it's more combat "homogenisation balance" which is horrible. It's the same in WoW as well. All classes follow the same combat rules which is a huge aspect of feeling uniqueness. I'm talking basic skill is most efficient single target dps, another skill will be better with 2-3 targets and finally aoe will be most effective 4+. Similarly all classes follow a dot-->filler rotation. All you have to identify the DoT,aoe,2+aoe, single target dmg spell on each class and they end up playing the same.

Whatever happened to working your way up to spells like abi dalzims horrid wiltering in BG2 that melt entire screens, or even poison nova in D2.

[Shinzai]

I find it's more combat "homogenisation balance" which is horrible. It's the same in WoW as well. All classes follow the same combat rules which is a huge aspect of feeling uniqueness. I'm talking basic skill is most efficient single target dps, another skill will be better with 2-3 targets and finally aoe will be most effective 4+. Similarly all classes follow a dot-->filler rotation. All you have to identify the DoT,aoe,2+aoe, single target dmg spell on each class and they end up playing the same.

Whatever happened to working your way up to spells like abi dalzims horrid wiltering in BG2 that melt entire screens, or even poison nova in D2.

I'm not sure it'd be much fun in a multiplayer game if someone just hits 1 button and clears the entire screen. Also there are single target, dot and aoe builds available for all the classes, it's not a simple case of "just use this or nothing", especially with the buffs to all the abilities considered 'lesser'.

[Yoshimiko]

My personal issue with this game..it was nothing like the Diablo's of past.

It, simply put, wasn't fun to play. Who remembers the grey bow challenge someone did a couple years ago? Amazon with a grey bow, and no other gear on HC. He made it to act 3 or 4 Nightmare... Try that shit in this game...

The classes aren't fun, they took out almost every iconic ability(where's my frozen orb ; , No such thing as "challenging" once you're geared, too hard when you're not(everyone who watches challenges has to remember naked baal runs - try to do a naked Act 4 Inferno run...), I can't put my finger on it but the game feels..clunky compared to Diablo 2. Everything seems so binary - either you survive or you don't. Diablo 2 you could make a fight work..0 all resists, 0 life leach, caster - you could still clear all of hell with minimal gear, but even with full bis gear with good rolls you could still struggle and die on that same difficulty.

Gear matters too much. Skill doesn't matter enough. You're not rewarded for good play, rather you're punished for lack of gear.

With the old style of fighting - even the longest fights lasted maybe 1-2 minutes... This current system it takes 45 minutes - 1.5 hours for a poorly geared character to clear act 3. I'm at 50k dps, and I still take ~35 minutes for an act 1 clear. Punished for changing acts - unable to change acts aside of killing a boss, Pet builds are utter trash, etc etc.. I could go on.

I could excuse all of this if the classes were just fun to play... As an avid Diablo 2 player - Played it for somethign like 6-7 years with ~1-2 month break every few years... This simply does not feel like a Diablo game. Iconic abilities stripped away - or nerfed into oblivion(hydra ; ; what'd they do to you), overly complex systems put in play(was spamming 1-2 abilities - something that's been in since diablo 1 - really so bad? Obviously people liked it), Mandatory defenses via unavoidable damage, and steep gear requirements all make this feel more like an MMORPG than an ARPG.

[Shinzai]

My personal issue with this game..it was nothing like the Diablo's of past.

It, simply put, wasn't fun to play. Who remembers the grey bow challenge someone did a couple years ago? Amazon with a grey bow, and no other gear on HC. He made it to act 3 or 4 Nightmare... Try that shit in this game...

The classes aren't fun, they took out almost every iconic ability(where's my frozen orb ; , No such thing as "challenging" once you're geared, too hard when you're not(everyone who watches challenges has to remember naked baal runs - try to do a naked Act 4 Inferno run...), I can't put my finger on it but the game feels..clunky compared to Diablo 2. Everything seems so binary - either you survive or you don't. Diablo 2 you could make a fight work..0 all resists, 0 life leach, caster - you could still clear all of hell with minimal gear, but even with full bis gear with good rolls you could still struggle and die on that same difficulty.

Gear matters too much. Skill doesn't matter enough. You're not rewarded for good play, rather you're punished for lack of gear.

With the old style of fighting - even the longest fights lasted maybe 1-2 minutes... This current system it takes 45 minutes - 1.5 hours for a poorly geared character to clear act 3. I'm at 50k dps, and I still take ~35 minutes for an act 1 clear. Punished for changing acts - unable to change acts aside of killing a boss, Pet builds are utter trash, etc etc.. I could go on.

I could excuse all of this if the classes were just fun to play... As an avid Diablo 2 player - Played it for somethign like 6-7 years with ~1-2 month break every few years... This simply does not feel like a Diablo game. Iconic abilities stripped away - or nerfed into oblivion(hydra ; ; what'd they do to you), overly complex systems put in play(was spamming 1-2 abilities - something that's been in since diablo 1 - really so bad? Obviously people liked it), Mandatory defenses via unavoidable damage, and steep gear requirements all make this feel more like an MMORPG than an ARPG.

Funnily, you'll find most people complaining that there weren't enough abilities in the game. Most people complained that they didn't have a full skill bar of hot keys to use. And I personally think it's interesting that they make you actually think about defending yourself, rather than just hammering the potion key and not giving a fuck about anything.

And the longest fights only take 1-5 minutes absolute tops in Diablo 3, unless you're just completely ungeared. I've never understood people's belief that Diablo 2 was the penultimate arpg; It was good, but it wasn't god tier. It's been obsessed over to breaking point and just wasn't that amazing. As you point out; once you were geared in Diablo 2, everything was a joke. Hell, most of it was a joke even half geared. The game could be cleared in no time at all, yet some how, it's still amazing.

[Fencers]

Not sure if another ARPG will ever equal Diablo 2 again. It's one of those 'stars aligned' things. I remember playing D2 and being astonished a game like that could even exist- game mechanics, build diversity, online play, etc. It was literally astonishing. The sub culture of trading and economic power play that rose up were so organic that while I appreciate RMAH it's just too forced.

Kinda lightning in a bottle.

Might be my favorite game of all time. If I could play Diablo 2 HD right now I would.

[Tarkenoff]

Not sure if another ARPG will ever equal Diablo 2 again. It's one of those 'stars aligned' things. I remember playing D2 and being astonished a game like that could even exist- game mechanics, build diversity, online play, etc. It was literally astonishing. The sub culture of trading and economic power play that rose up were so organic that while I appreciate RMAH it's just too forced.

Kinda lightning in a bottle.

Might be my favorite game of all time. If I could play Diablo 2 HD right now I would.

Everything you talk about is how I fell in love with D2. Endgame got boring as you did runs alongside Bots hoping to get some good loot before they snatched it all up, so I guess that makes a plus for D3, because it does take significantly longer to do an endrun. The classes with their filled out talent trees were just amazing though. The WW Barb, or if you chose, the sword and board Barb. The Druid with Cyclone up while he cast Tornado after Tornado as Meteors fell out of the sky. The Necromancer with his army of Undead Skeletons, and a Level 20 Resurrection to have another twenty minions up . As one poster said, I just see too much homogenization of the classes in D3. A few must have defensive abilities, the DoT, the healing dpser skill, and the spirit/fury/hatred/arcane power builders. Different graphics, but much the same.

[Cairhiin]

Not sure if another ARPG will ever equal Diablo 2 again. It's one of those 'stars aligned' things. I remember playing D2 and being astonished a game like that could even exist- game mechanics, build diversity, online play, etc. It was literally astonishing. The sub culture of trading and economic power play that rose up were so organic that while I appreciate RMAH it's just too forced.

Kinda lightning in a bottle.

Might be my favorite game of all time. If I could play Diablo 2 HD right now I would.

Fencers I totally agree with you but where is your love for Baldur's Gate! I would also definitely play Diablo 2 HD. I've played that game so much and I still love it, and I also doubt that another ARPG like that will ever be made. Torchlight 2 isn't anywhere near it either.

[Deleted]

this game was epic fail, it started promising with act 1 but instead going bigger and better it turned into f2p quality with act 4 and half of act 3.

[Cinnamohn]

I miss various elements from both Diablo I and II. One of the main things is the severe lack of map randomization. I couldn't even count the number of times I've seen a cave/dungeon with an entrance path, an exit path, and a square loop with dead ends on the two unused corners (ex. pony level).

[talrob]

I don't understand how people can play after killing diablo or why you would pay real money into this game.

The only fun I had was farming to progress, finally killing diablo after 120 hours of game play. Why should I play more? I have nothing left to kill or story to hear? If I wanted to make money I'd do overtime instead of grinding a game over and over. Also why anyone would pay to skip the game confuses me also.

[Djuntas]

Miss Diablo2 aswell OP, played it for so much Was my first game I really got into. Sadly now days Diablo2 aged like hell, its really bad.

Still keeping my non-ladder account alive since like 2004/05. Its to good, and full of memories to let it go.

---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 09:18 PM ----------

I don't understand how people can play after killing diablo or why you would pay real money into this game.

The only fun I had was farming to progress, finally killing diablo after 120 hours of game play. Why should I play more? I have nothing left to kill or story to hear? If I wanted to make money I'd do overtime instead of grinding a game over and over. Also why anyone would pay to skip the game confuses me also.

Yep, that was the problem. End-game was just hugely lacking, it was never hard to clear the game. I had cleared to Inferno Diablo early when it was released, then didnt bother kill it until first nerf patch. Feelt no real excitment once it was done; And now all one could do is farm Act3.

[Shinzai]

I don't understand how people can play after killing diablo or why you would pay real money into this game.

The only fun I had was farming to progress, finally killing diablo after 120 hours of game play. Why should I play more? I have nothing left to kill or story to hear? If I wanted to make money I'd do overtime instead of grinding a game over and over. Also why anyone would pay to skip the game confuses me also.

120 hours of gameplay, apparently not worth 50$. Most games give you 6-12 hours. Hmmm. As I've said many, many times, people's logic seems to go awol with this game, especially when doing time/cash value. If someone plays a game for over 10 hours, they can't claim to hate it. Unless 90% of the D3 audience are just sadists, forcing themselves through the game that they claim to hate.

[Deleted]

The thing that keeps me playing this game after killing Diablo is the desire for even better lootz! I mean, I've played for 220+ hours now, and that's pretty good for a game that cost me -80 euro. I like farming, and this game is pretty much about farming. There's nothing sweeter than getting that awesome legendary or a set piece and either using it yourself or selling it on the AH to obtain better gear for yourself.

You can say what you want, but in my opinion Diablo 3 is better than Diablo 2 was back then. And I played Diablo 2 for a long long long time..

In other news, Path of Exile is having a ladder reset on tuesday, so if you're looking for a game more like D2 it might be for you. That's pretty much the only thing D3 lacks at the moment. Ladder system of some sort, with legacy option for all your non-ladder characters / players.

[Fencers]

Fencers I totally agree with you but where is your love for Baldur's Gate! I would also definitely play Diablo 2 HD. I've played that game so much and I still love it, and I also doubt that another ARPG like that will ever be made. Torchlight 2 isn't anywhere near it either.

Oh, I love BG1/2 as well. But that Diablo 2 hook...

Few things were as satisfying as obliterating a screen full of baddies. Amid the viscera and carnage, the distinct sound of a rune hitting the ground would cut through it all.

A grin from ear to ear always followed.

[Djuntas]

Well, 200 hours is maybe good ammount for some people. I tough Diablo3 was gonna be consuming every minute I could play for the next year or close.

To me 200 hours played feels like some casual console game (I played about 300 hours), a genre of gaming that I belive is cancer for any kind of real gaming now days. (Witch Diablo3 reminded way to much aswell off, with all its tons off bugs, especially Immortal Wizard bug's).