So... I'll have to do these dailies *forever*?

[Hungrydingo]

As opposed to aoe spamming heroics or doing LFR, those aren't mindless or tedious at all!

[Gurbz]

If you don't like 1) Rep grinds 2) capping conquest 3) capping valor 4) grinding professions 5) farming all the best mats for comsumables then hardcore raiding just isn't for you. I know you like to raid, and that you are a good player, but this game just requires more than that at the beginning of an xpac or content patch. It always has and always will.

This is very much the truth. What is effectively being said is that you want to do a specific activity, but you hate actually doing that activity so it should be changed into something you like. Cutting edge progression has always required a player to do whatever it takes to maximize their potential, no matter how boring, tedious, difficult, time consuming, resource intensive, expensive, or anything else it was. You wanted to raid at that level, it was understood that such activities were required. If you can't accept that in order to stay in a world/server first guild, that you will be required to do some things you don't want to or don't like, then that kind of raiding is not for you.

[Faroth]

That's simply not true especially with rested. You don't consider the atrocious gearing in dungeons a barrier but that's okay alot of them will. To much effort required is simply a barrier. Your correct their should be some but as someone who played from vanilla of and on until this I can tell you right now this is to much. WoW is not that game anymore.

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 03:23 PM ----------



When did I say I didn't want to sit in org? I said their system failed to get me out of org but I don't care frankly. What do I want tweaked? Well that's a tough one am I arguing stuff that I just want or that I think will be good for the game?

I think if we're to be reasonable, we have to present what we want tempered by what we feel would be good for the game. I usually think present what you want and concede what isn't manageable or wouldn't be good for the game with some compromises that would be acceptable for both perspectives.

[Jabberwocky]

Back on your treadmill, hamster! Run in one spot... and like it! Be happy you have a treadmill. Other hamsters just have shavings.

[Aviney]

Honestly, I'm doing all the dailies I can each day, because I know that at some point when I'm done getting rep, I'm not going to want to touch a daily for a month or two. All those extra lesser charms I have are going to be used then. Right now I'm sitting with over 270 charms in my bags. That's 3 weeks worth right there.

[Lefrog]

Yeah so basically are you saying that farming dailies is boring while farming heroics or pvp is fun?

Sorry but to me farming is... just farming.

Charms are not a must to have, they are intended to give you a CHANCE to get another roll on a boss loot table, that's it. We did raids without these until now, I don't see why someone should be always weekly capped to be a good raider.

Another good point. Most top raiders don't really rely on gear as much as the rest of us. They always tackle the content undergeared and what determines the outcome is usually excellent class skills and near flawless boss mechanic execution, as well as some gimmicks here or there. I highly doubt that an extra epic a week will determine whether or not a boss can be killed for them. Gear is mostly there to help subpar raid teams eventually have an easier time on bosses.

[Vaelyn]

I feel like I'm facing a future of perpetual daily quest grinds. Yeah, you can opt not to do it, but everything is dependent on the damned things. It's bad enough getting to revered/exalted with a bunch of them when dailies are the only way to gain rep, it'll take weeks and weeks, but it seems I'll have to keep doing them forever if I want fortune charms.

Who will ever want to be a raider without getting the most out of it? To most players, raiding without their weekly quota of charms is out of the question. It certainly would taint the incentive for me, knowing I'm missing out on probably several raid drops per month just because I'm not grinding freakin' dailies. I expect most guilds will require that their members keep topped up on charms -- why bring a member who isn't getting the most out of the raid if you could bring someone who gets the extra upgrades and thus improves progression? You wouldn't bring someone who doesn't enchant his gear.

The problem is that these dailies are terrible. It's not only a grind, it's an exercise in frustration to try and do the same quest as fifty other players. It's a mob-tagging, ninja-clicking competition. I don't know how I'd be able to do that forever with no end in sight, every day, just so I don't miss out on gear upgrades from an entirely unrelated part of the game.

I think we'll need alternative ways to get these charms. (bolded/underlined because nobody seemed to comprehend that part and selectively read that I want charms for free without doing anything) They should be obtainable with VP and/or CP. I don't feel like I should have to do 45 dailies a week every week for the rest of the time I play WoW. It's just as reasonable to expect people to do dungeons or PvP -- those activities are certainly no less related to the act of raiding, and I expect most players would be a little more enthusiastic about those things than dailies. Whatever the case, I feel like alternatives will be necessary. I certainly will not be doing 45 dailies every week - and more if I want to raid with alts as well - forever. The "for as long as I play WoW" part might just get cut very short if that's how it has to be.

Getting 90 Lesser charms is easy though. Hell, I get about 360 a week. :-P Since you can only turn in 90 a week, bank the ones you don't use. If you need a break from dailies for a week, or when you're exalted with everyone you care about, use the banked ones that week, otherwise you can grind just enough to get the 90 tokens and get easy gold. :-/ What I don't like is things being tied to reputation factions that aren't obtainable until you grind other reputation. I have an Enchanter alt and he can't get the enchants from August Celestials until I grind Golden Lotus... /wrists

[Brittany]

The best time in WoW comes when you realise that you don't "have" to do anything. Everything is optional, even playing the game itself is optional.

People are too obsessed with doing everything. When I started, people were happy to let some other people farm furlbogs and winterspring tigers. Now people see a rep bar and think "I have to do it".

You really don't. If you don't enjoy it, bear with it, get the minimal you want out of it and move on.

[razski]

Want the tokens? Do the dailies.

Don't want to do dailies? You don't get the tokens.

Effort = reward.

[Aviney]

I have an Enchanter alt and he can't get the enchants from August Celestials until I grind Golden Lotus... /wrists

This is really the biggest problem I have. My main is a tailor/enchanter and having reps to grind for patterns is one thing. Having reps to grind for patterns that I can't even begin until I grind another rep is kinda ridiculous.

[Ulvhedner]

Yep, too bad you have to put in time and effort to get rewarded, ey? It's the beginning of an expansion, relax. There's no need to rush it so quickly, especially not if you're not interested enough to do the daily quests. As the Pandaren say; Slow down!

I run heroics and challenge mode to get VP, but since I spend time on that I'm not able to spend it because I don't do dailies. To me it's not exactly the best design. If they absolutely want to tie VP gear with a reputation, at least make it related to raiding.

[Deleted]

I'm sitting on 516 at the moment, with 6 elder coins. Hence why I really can't understand how people can't be arsed to get 90 in a week. ^^

The expansion has been out for two weeks. Assuming at least two days to get to 90 (which is optimistic), you've had at most 12 days to do daily quests. At 2 charms per quest and 6 coins (540 charms) plus 516 loose charms, you claim to have obtained roughly 525 daily quests worth of charms. That's over 40 daily quests per day. There's only a total of 48 daily quests in MoP, many of which require various reputation levels to unlock, so you didn't even have 40 daily quests available from the start. That's a best-case scenario. I don't need to express my skepticism any further.

Why do I not want to do this? Because at a generous estimate of 5 minutes per quest (in reality it's often much more on a high-pop server) and 45 quests per week, that's 3.75 hours per week. In reality it's more like 5 hours a week, potentially more depending on what time of day you play -- if you try to do dailies at 6pm on Draenor, there's usually fifty to a hundred players at each quest spot. Playing approximately 3 hours per day, these daily quests take up something similar to 25% of my time, and I think I play enough to qualify as a fairly active player. Since I can't do them on the days I raid, it's actually more like 40% of my unscheduled time. And that's just the minimum to get my elder charms which, as I've previously explained, are not really optional for a competitive raider (unless you also consider things like flasks, gems and enchants optional). Can you see why I'd like alternative ways to accomplish this?

With JP being largely useless, this seems like an excellent alternate source of charms. It'll put many more tanks and healers back into dungeon queues, which is just good for everyone. Blizzard missed a golden opportunity to fix a problem there. It'd also take some stress off of the overcrowded daily quest areas, which is sorely needed.

[Berph]

I feel like I'm facing a future of perpetual daily quest grinds. Yeah, you can opt not to do it, but everything is dependent on the damned things. It's bad enough getting to revered/exalted with a bunch of them when dailies are the only way to gain rep, it'll take weeks and weeks, but it seems I'll have to keep doing them forever if I want fortune charms.

Who will ever want to be a raider without getting the most out of it? To most players, raiding without their weekly quota of charms is out of the question. It certainly would taint the incentive for me, knowing I'm missing out on probably several raid drops per month just because I'm not grinding freakin' dailies. I expect most guilds will require that their members keep topped up on charms -- why bring a member who isn't getting the most out of the raid if you could bring someone who gets the extra upgrades and thus improves progression? You wouldn't bring someone who doesn't enchant his gear.

The problem is that these dailies are terrible. It's not only a grind, it's an exercise in frustration to try and do the same quest as fifty other players. It's a mob-tagging, ninja-clicking competition. I don't know how I'd be able to do that forever with no end in sight, every day, just so I don't miss out on gear upgrades from an entirely unrelated part of the game.

I think we'll need alternative ways to get these charms. (bolded/underlined because nobody seemed to comprehend that part and selectively read that I want charms for free without doing anything) They should be obtainable with VP and/or CP. I don't feel like I should have to do 45 dailies a week every week for the rest of the time I play WoW. It's just as reasonable to expect people to do dungeons or PvP -- those activities are certainly no less related to the act of raiding, and I expect most players would be a little more enthusiastic about those things than dailies. Whatever the case, I feel like alternatives will be necessary. I certainly will not be doing 45 dailies every week - and more if I want to raid with alts as well - forever. The "for as long as I play WoW" part might just get cut very short if that's how it has to be.

i dont see the problem to be honest with you?!

Is it the Rep? is it the charms? is it the VP?

Rep: Meh could be faster but all items are just placeholder till raid.

Charms: I have 323 lesser as of now ( before i turn my 90 in for the weekly quest ) so i am almost 3 weeks ahead. 2-3 days worth of dailies cant be to much for a week, and the higher your rep the more quest hubs are available to you, which means less time wasted traveling which also means you are done quicker.

VP: no, works just fine, you arent supposed to cap your weekly cap in 1 day. the only problem i see here, after youre capped dailies should still reward you the vp, its kind of sad doing dailies for the last 2-3 days of the week and all the vp just goes into oblivion, maybe after you are VP capped turn the vp reward into JP? so we get at least something else then charms and rep?

[Deleted]

aren't the charms a BONUS loot roll?

put more time/effort into the game and receive a bonus.. don't and don't.. sounds fair to me.

It is bonus yes, but when it increases your character power (or has a chance to do that), A LOT of people will see it as something that is mandatory. Everyone should already know this to be honest, including Blizzard. It's just like like LFR for example. No regular raiders want to run that with their mains, but when there's upgrades available they feel like they have no choice.

I personally don't even have MoP so I'm not 100% sure how these tokens work or how tedious it is to get them, but from a neutral point of view, anything that increases character power is considered as must have for a lot of people. Raiders can get pretty much everything they _need_ for raiding from AH, except this apparently. So I'm sure there will be a lot of raiders who despise dailies and yet are still forced to do them.

[Xothic]

The expansion has been out for two weeks. Assuming at least two days to get to 90 (which is optimistic), you've had at most 12 days to do daily quests. At 2 charms per quest and 6 coins (540 charms) plus 516 loose charms, you claim to have obtained roughly 525 daily quests worth of charms. That's over 40 daily quests per day. There's only a total of 48 daily quests in MoP, many of which require various reputation levels to unlock, so you didn't even have 40 daily quests available from the start. That's a best-case scenario. I don't need to express my skepticism any further.

Lol, you might want to check your math there bud, you get 3 gold coins per 90 silver coins, therefor 180 silver for 6 gold, not 540.

[DisposableHero]

You get -a lot- of coins. I have 100 that I can't turn in, because I already turned in my 90.

Not to mention that you will only use the loot rolls when you need gear meaning after you gear up coin turn ins are just stockpiling for the next tier. That is what is somewhat interesting about it. You have 15 gear slots, assuming you save them for normal and heroic mode raid gear you will never use more than 15 per week, and you will stop using them whenever you get a piece for the slot you are looking for. You're going to get some loot the first time, and some loot is just never going to drop, but since they double your number of kills effectively and eliminate other people rolling on the items you need, I suspect we'll end up using 20-30 for normal and the same for heroic each tier. 60 tokens per tier is 10 weeks, so less this tier because most people who are serious about progression are done it in less than 10 weeks. Blizzard generally has a 4-6 month cycle between new raid tiers, so if you're hardcore and want them for normal and heroic, you'll be farming for 10 of the 24 weeks for this tier, 10 weeks for the next tier, and 10 weeks for the tier after, which means you'll be done turning in the quests for them by the middle of tier 15 for the remainder of the expansion.

I'm not hitting the dailies hardcore, I've skipped some days and half completed other days because I don't care all that much, I'm willing to go at a comfortable pace. I'm 3 weeks of turn ins ahead, with over 270 lesser charms in my inventory right now, and it has been 2 weeks. Which means those 180 tokens, 30 weeks of turn ins, translates to about 6 weeks of doing all the dailies every day, excluding how many extra become available from doing the Shadow Pan, August Celestials, Golden Lotus revered to exalted areas or all the other more obscure dailies I am not currently doing (fishing up the rare fish for the anglers for example).

TD;LR - Do your dailies until you have all the factions exalted and you'll have more elder charms than you are likely to need for the whole expansion.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I just noticed that. Doesn't change my point.

What I'm really wondering at this stage is how 13 pages worth of people can justify their stance of "you're wrong for suggesting that a raid-related reward should be available from any other source than dailies."

It's really quite amusing by now. It's such an obvious case of people arguing for the sake of arguing. People missing the point completely, or intentionally evading it so they can come here and say "QQQQ you want free epix for no effort."

There was a time when this was the place to go for serious discussions because the official forums were so bad. Now there's no difference. Now every thread instantly devolves into nay-saying and people jumping on the bandwagon of "disagree because it makes me feel superior."

Nobody has yet presented anything remotely approaching a sensible argument for why an exclusively raid-related reward must be tied only to a heavy daily quest grind. Few even seem to comprehend the notion that the current setup is extremely counter-intuitive.

Enchantments are also a "small bonus" (as people have repeatedly phrased it). If they were available only via hours of daily quests every week and someone had suggested turning it into a profession, you'd be right there saying "if you don't want to put in an effort, you don't get the reward." That argument is factually identical to what has been vomited onto every page of this thread.

[Gurbz]

...Playing approximately 3 hours per day...

...I think I play enough to qualify as a fairly active player...

Um..no. That's actually bordering on casual, at least for a raiding player. Life stuff has cut my playing time way WAY back now, but at the peak of my guild's raiding, everyone in our core 10-man was playing minimum 5+ hours a day. On weekends, 8-12 hour days logged in were not uncommon. 3 hours a day is nothing really.

[Vainglorious]

Just stop doing dailies.
I stopped back in firelands when I saw what a grind that would be, and I've never looked back.
Mind you, I'm doing cloud ones for the mount...but that's for a specific goal.

You can still get gear, and raid, just maybe not as fast.

[MrHappy]

Am I the only one around here that enjoys the different dailies we can do? I mean if I don't feel like doing Klaxxi quests I can do Cloudserpent/Tillers/Golden Lotus/Nat Pagle and when I get done Golden Lotus I also now can choose between Shado Pan/Celestials . I get VP for doing those so there is incentive to do it if I wanted to get capped quicker and get my 3 tokens as week as well. Not to mention hidden dailies that require unique things to do to get them done!