So... I'll have to do these dailies *forever*?

[DisposableHero]

Am I the only one around here that enjoys the different dailies we can do? I mean if I don't feel like doing Klaxxi quests I can do Cloudserpent/Tillers/Golden Lotus/Nat Pagle and when I get done Golden Lotus I also now can choose between Shado Pan/Celestials . I get VP for doing those so there is incentive to do it if I wanted to get capped quicker and get my 3 tokens as week as well. Not to mention hidden dailies that require unique things to do to get them done!

I have enjoyed the tillers and anglers because they produce interesting things or help me skill up professions and do not take very long to do. The golden lotus dailies are aggravating however.

[Brittany]

They made this blue post about it.

"Also, keep in mind that Pandaria isn't going to vanish into thin air. As long as you're progressing towards your goal, even if it takes you longer than more dedicated players, isn't that still advancing your character? Just curious. "

Perhaps you need to think about your guild etc. If you are in a high end raid guild, they may well expect you to have this optional loot roll. But plenty of other guilds won't. You might not like it, you might feel an injustice or whatever, but it comes down to effort = reward. If you can't put the effort in, then you'll advance slower than someone that does.

Its tough given that the recent mindset was to throw epics at you for sitting in SW, but this is obviously their direction and they're sticking to it. In the past we've had to spend out of raid time farming motes, or farming resistance gear. This is just another form of farming. You will get there in the end, but the people who put the most effort in will get there first.

[Zeek Daniels]

It isnt hard, and it CERTAINLY wont last the whole expansion. It is just people crying because for the first time they have too much to do.

I agree you dont have to do them the whole expansion no doubt they will release new dailies each patch to advance the storyline with maybe new areas BUT not everyone can log in every day to do X number of dailies in Y amount of time. People that hate these dailies the most are the raiders who may only have free time to raid. And their other free time in cata was used doing dungeons which you could get rep with factions using tabards. But now in MoP your asking them to do dungeons + do dailies + raid. Some may not have the time for that and feel they are letting their groups down.

[MoanaLisa]

Yeah so basically are you saying that farming dailies is boring while farming heroics or pvp is fun?

Farming dailies, which a lot of people do solo obviously, is a bit different than farming heroics or doing anything with a group. Even better if the group has some friends or guild members in it. Most of the time I do dailies with the spouse, guild mates or friends so it's not so terrible and I'd recommend that for people able to put that together.

But after that, what you said is true. Farming is repetition and you can either deal with it or not. I'll sign on with others here who think that grinding out everything so quickly is a bad way of doing things. It's early; take it easy. Don't stress too much. If you're in a truly competitive guild then you know what you signed up for. Everyone else should stop pretending that they're in competitive guilds and complaining about doing what it takes to prepare.

This is a step up from getting something for basically nothing.

[Eurhetemec]

Um..no. That's actually bordering on casual, at least for a raiding player. Life stuff has cut my playing time way WAY back now, but at the peak of my guild's raiding, everyone in our core 10-man was playing minimum 5+ hours a day. On weekends, 8-12 hour days logged in were not uncommon. 3 hours a day is nothing really.

3 hours a day is nothing really?

No insult, but this sort of attitude is a good example of what is wrong with a lot of discussion on the internet. 3 hours/day is the same as a part-time JOB. Not a just a game, not just a hobby, a part-time JOB. For someone with a real job (so, probably 10 hours/day right then and there, including travel times), 3 hours/day is literally half their free waking hours. 5+ hours a day means that if you have a job, you are either cutting sleep (which can cause very serious health issues), or are cutting food, hygiene and socialization with other human beings. I'm not judging you for that, I've been that guy, but it is totally ridiculous to call 3 hours/day "bordering on casual". No, it's a pretty serious committment to a hobby.

In WotLK and Cataclysm, I got away with, doing normal and then later heroic/HM raids, averaging less than 2 hours/day over the week. I didn't even log in on non-raiding weeknights once I'd done the initial rep grinds (only logged in for dailies until then, pretty much), unless there was something fun going on, and just did the raids, plus stuff on weekends.

@ Noselacri - The only consolation is that this is basically unsustainable, and Blizzard WILL eventually notice this. They aren't thick or perverse, much as it might seem so at times. So the alternatives you hope for will probably appear, or the charms will be superseded or otherwise become irrelevant. I can't imagine the "You must do dailies for rep, not dungeons!" position will last forever, either. I know one player who it has already driven away, as he gets bored quickly soloing, and prefers to do only dungeons and raids - which was basically doable in Cataclysm.

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 05:22 PM ----------

Its tough given that the recent mindset was to throw epics at you for sitting in SW, but this is obviously their direction and they're sticking to it. In the past we've had to spend out of raid time farming motes, or farming resistance gear. This is just another form of farming. You will get there in the end, but the people who put the most effort in will get there first.

This isn't comparable to farming motes or resistance gear, neither of which have been relevant for what, four years? Nor are they necessarily going to stick with this.

[Brittany]

This isn't comparable to farming motes or resistance gear, neither of which have been relevant for what, four years? Nor are they necessarily going to stick with this.

And what happened? You realise people have been crying on forums ever since they took out long rep grinds and gear grinds about the game not requiring any effort.

Blizzard cannot win. People will cry it's too easy if they let them go for VP/JP. People will cry it's not fair if they stick with the dailies. All the blue posts suggest they are happy right now.

Also it's an optional loot roll. It's in no way comparable to an enchant or a flask. You've gone without said loot roll for years. All it means is the person who put in more effort than you has an edge on you.

[Synstir]

3 hours a day? Wow! I don't have that time to log on and play really.
I can't even log on every day.

So people saying: it only takes 2 weeks, this is when someone has the time to log on every day and play as long as it takes to finish the dailies.
If I log on 3 days a week then it will take me a month to get the rep, given that I have enough time to finish the dailies.

So wow = dailies only for me for now.

[philefluxx]

Same old story. Last expansion people complained there wasnt enough to do and everyone sat in SW and Org. Now they are bitching there is too much to do and they have to be out in the world...

[Kelimbror]

They made this blue post about it.

"Also, keep in mind that Pandaria isn't going to vanish into thin air. As long as you're progressing towards your goal, even if it takes you longer than more dedicated players, isn't that still advancing your character? Just curious. "

And here is my response to that blue post: If you play three hours a day and don't have anything to show for it other than currency you can't use and reps that aren't maxed out, then no...you are not progressing your character. They are trying to dismiss the notion (that they have established by the way) that character *progression* actually means character power increasing. After 8 years they want to try and illusion that fact away, but that is how the game is established.

Each new thing that comes out hits a little bit harder, takes a little more dps, etc etc. From new daily zones, to dungeons, to raids. If you aren't increasing in power to make any of these things easier and/or more fun, then you are NOT progressing.

It is absolutely crazy to think people would buy this garbage.

[Synstir]

And what happened? You realise people have been crying on forums ever since they took out long rep grinds and gear grinds about the game not requiring any effort.

Blizzard cannot win. People will cry it's too easy if they let them go for VP/JP. People will cry it's not fair if they stick with the dailies. All the blue posts suggest they are happy right now.

Also it's an optional loot roll. It's in no way comparable to an enchant or a flask. You've gone without said loot roll for years. All it means is the person who put in more effort than you has an edge on you.

Long grinds aren't the same as more effort. These dailies aren't an effortm they are consuming time, that's all.
There is a difference between a timesink and putting effort.

Lets not forget we're talking about a game here and something that will enhance my life. It is something I do when I got the time from my real life.
If the game gets me bored... well then it is a reverse world.

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:34 PM ----------

Same old story. Last expansion people complained there wasnt enough to do and everyone sat in SW and Org. Now they are bitching there is too much to do and they have to be out in the world...

I don't think of dailies as more content! It is the same content repeated every day.

[Glorious Leader]

And here is my response to that blue post: If you play three hours a day and don't have anything to show for it other than currency you can't use and reps that aren't maxed out, then no...you are not progressing your character. They are trying to dismiss the notion (that they have established by the way) that character *progression* actually means character power increasing. After 8 years they want to try and illusion that fact away, but that is how the game is established.

Each new thing that comes out hits a little bit harder, takes a little more dps, etc etc. From new daily zones, to dungeons, to raids. If you aren't increasing in power to make any of these things easier and/or more fun, then you are NOT progressing.

It is absolutely crazy to think people would buy this garbage.

But they do they eat it up in droves. Like not only will you still have nothing to show for it, eventually Blizzard will realize this as well and give you something at the expense of everybody else who "worked" their butts off for it. It's crazy though because when they do that then the same people who are defending them for this shit now will be defending them then as well. It's like they make a progressive decision that aids players everyone lauds them for it except for the usual angry minority. They made a regressive decision and the people who defend them when they did something really helpfull for players don't get mad that Blizzard did the old switchero, those people just switch their positions instead. It's CRAZY. I mean these are people who were saying don't live in the past, rose colored glasses, nostalgia. Now they all over that shit.

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:37 PM ----------

Same old story. Last expansion people complained there wasnt enough to do and everyone sat in SW and Org. Now they are bitching there is too much to do and they have to be out in the world...

I still sit in SW and ORG. If you don't like dailies then the other big thing you could do for reward (farm dungeons) got it's ass handed to it. Frankly even if you do like dailies it's not that much. It takes me like 30 minutes to get it done max and then I'm back in org afk alt tabbed on forums. I'm a good little boy honesty I've been doing my dailies every day for the past couple of days. Trying to play by papa Blizzards designs.

[TehBlkMage]

No because it went right along with something I was doing naturally anyway. Farming dungeons for gear and for valor points and justice points. It was great. In fact it was to rewarding they had to change it. They went a tad bit overboard and I don't see why they couldn't still give you rep in dungeons with a cap but they've basically said that's not going to happen and we should just learn to live with the status quo. PLAYING IT MY WAY WITH CHOICE IN MOP!

Like I don't see why were in favor of them destroying a system that had such great synergy and was so richly rewarding to the players. I see why Blizzard want's to do it makes total sense to me. I don't see why the players go along with it though.

Because no matter what its not going to be a choice on what you pick. People won't do dailies if using a tabard is faster and requires less effort (faster rep).

[Faroth]

What I'm really wondering at this stage is how 13 pages worth of people can justify their stance of "you're wrong for suggesting that a raid-related reward should be available from any other source than dailies."

Pendulum swings both ways. The statements I keep seeing is largely connected to rep and JP or VP gear as though it's exclusively the only way to gear for raids whatsoever. The bonus loot roll token is something I've not really even seen brought up as a subject.

Historically, though, crafting has often needed items from raids. Raiding has often been a requirement and the only way to do or see anything. The pendulum has swung so now raiders are asked to dip their feet into non-raid content and the lid is blowing off as they seemingly freak out. Part of me is okay with this. Blizzard wants to see players exploring the game again, doing more than just "log in, raid, log out."

Farming for flasks and potions, farming for motes, farming for food. These have always been a part of raid-related content only available outside of raiding. Something you had to do once upon a time. They've gotten away from it being as bad as it used to be, but there's still an aspect of doing something outside of raid in order to do raids, but it's optional.

There were no feasts before, but you didn't have to have a food buff to clear a raid. You didn't have to have a potion (and you had to have your own potions supplied, not a cauldron). Now one person can supply food buffs for a full raid. So what's the new replacement? Get out and do dailies IF you want an extra bonus loot roll.

I can understand a desire to ignore a part of the game for another part of the game, but when it's something completely optional and not required to perform the part of the game you prefer....I don't see it as a big problem.

[Glorious Leader]

Because no matter what its not going to be a choice on what you pick. People won't do dailies if using a tabard is faster and requires less effort (faster rep).

First of all that just goes to the argument that really nobody likes daily content or at least very few people do. The only reason they do it is because theirs a reward for it and a pretty good one so that they all just feel like they have to. I mean let's say dungeons granted you faster rep but dailies still granted you the rep they give you now. YOU COULD STILL RUN DAILIES WHAT HAPPENED GUYS? no of course you would all flock to the fucking dungoens or at least the vast majority of you would. Being forced to do something isn't about having literally no other options, it's about having no other options that are as good an as rewarding.

Second of all okay make it all even then. I'm not sure how you think dungeons in general require less effort, their both pretty much the same so let's just make the gain you could get with a tabard equal to what you'd get out doing dailes. And then see how many people still do dailies.

[Tikaru]

I don't think of dailies as more content! It is the same content repeated every day.

Which is different from any other aspect of the game...how exactly?

[Glorious Leader]

And what happened? You realise people have been crying on forums ever since they took out long rep grinds and gear grinds about the game not requiring any effort.

Blizzard cannot win. People will cry it's too easy if they let them go for VP/JP. People will cry it's not fair if they stick with the dailies. All the blue posts suggest they are happy right now.

Also it's an optional loot roll. It's in no way comparable to an enchant or a flask. You've gone without said loot roll for years. All it means is the person who put in more effort than you has an edge on you.

Blizzard can win. It just has to do things in the beta properly. My understanding was this system was snuck in relatively late in the beta. I mean you could make the rewards even but that requires testing. The blues are happy now until the great mass of people hit lvl 90 and bitch and unsub and bitch and unsub. Cataclysm 2.0

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:46 PM ----------

I can understand a desire to ignore a part of the game for another part of the game, but when it's something completely optional and not required to perform the part of the game you prefer....I don't see it as a big problem.

Completely optional suggests that choosing not to do it will grant you equal benefit or choosing to do something else will grant you the same benefit. This is clearly not the case. You guys are getting hung up on the fact that people think they need this gear. Obviously they don't. nobody needs anything in warcraft. However if the options aren't equal and one grants more reward than the other then it's clearly not a choice. I mean think about how crazy that is. Who the fuck would PURPOSELY slow themselves down and purposely refuse to take an avenue that's been made available to them? Of course they feel forced the other choices suck balls.

[fizzbob]

Are people incapable of posting on the internet without resorting to ad hominem in every sentence?

I'm suggesting alternatives. I never said I don't want to do work, I just don't want to do 45 dailies every week forever.

But I guess you feel better if you can insult people on the internet, and that's best done with strawmen and selective reading.

the alternative is to not do it. chances are you're not good enough for it to really matter. 90% of people won't benefit if they minmax because they are the weakest link so worrying about maximizing raid gear is a waste of time.

[TehBlkMage]

Second of all okay make it all even then. I'm not sure how you think dungeons in general require less effort, their both pretty much the same so let's just make the gain you could get with a tabard equal to what you'd get out doing dailes. And then see how many people still do dailies.

Would wearing the tabard give rep per run equal to one daily or one days worth of dailies? Because either way is unbalanced, as one run = one daily is way too slow and one run = one days worth of dailies is still unfair because you can run heroics over and over again in a day making it pointless to do the dailies.

That being said, what if they implemented it so that they give you an option do do dailies either in a dungeon or in the world? That way you do get an option no matter what you decide is more fun.

[Deleted]

Nobody has yet presented anything remotely approaching a sensible argument for why an exclusively raid-related reward must be tied only to a heavy daily quest grind. Few even seem to comprehend the notion that the current setup is extremely counter-intuitive.

It comes down to how you want different areas of the game to overlap.

If you are a raider and not interested in anything else in the game, should you still be supposed to run solo content (dailies), group content (dungeons/scenarios) or even PvP content to have your character at the best possible situation when you log for raid.

I personally prefer dailies (solo content) over the LFD/LFR tool, but I do agree that there probably could be some other options to get these charms.

[Glorious Leader]

Would wearing the tabard give rep per run equal to one daily or one days worth of dailies? Because either way is unbalanced, as one run = one daily is way too slow and one run = one days worth of dailies is still unfair because you can run heroics over and over again in a day making it pointless to do the dailies.

That being said, what if they implemented it so that they give you an option do do dailies either in a dungeon or in the world? That way you do get an option no matter what you decide is more fun.

Or make scenarios give rep. Lot's of ways to go about it but apparently dungeons are just fine and rewarding now.

I mean theirs a theoretical maximum rep you can get with each faction every day. Those dailies only go once a day right. So you figure how much that is, the sum total of all the daily quests you can do in one day for that faction and then set that number as the rep you can farm inside the dungeon with that tabard. I expect my pay cheque in the mail Blizzard.