So... I'll have to do these dailies *forever*?

[Deleted]

No that's not what it's for. That's never been what it's for. It's always been a method to combat rng dungeons and aid in the feeling of progression. Currently it doesn't do that well enough because you still feel like theirs progression in the dungeons related to directly dropping stuff from bosses. That niche your talking about has never been needed. I used to raid Karazhan in blues and greens and it didn't fucking matter.

Raiding by it's very nature is ill suited for the looking for group dynamic. Throwing 25 people together, expecting them to work together to overcome this challenge, 25 people who don't know each or other, have no structure and no prior relationship and then making that challenge actually challenging is doomed. Christ they couldn't even get 5 people together to do it in cataclysm...

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:42 AM ----------



.... Power and resilience no longer take up rolls on the item. They are calculated as free bonus stats on the item. Honor gear is actually still better at this point because it has a gem socket on it. Better customization.

I doubt it's that challenging, people wiped a lot in DS LFR as well but then they either out-geared it or learned a bit of the tactics and off they went with /afk mode. If it was any easier than it probably is right now, all the bosses would be the same with no risk of wiping, meaning it's just the same old tank n spank but new boss models. I wouldn't even call such a mode easy mode, bots could do that...

I would say that the fact that honor gear has the same amount of stats, is the worst design decision they have ever made... Even worse than introducing LFR.

[Glorious Leader]

I doubt it's that challenging, people wiped a lot in DS LFR as well but then they either out-geared it or learned a bit of the tactics and off they went with /afk mode. If it was any easier than it probably is right now, all the bosses would be the same with no risk of wiping, meaning it's just the same old tank n spank but new boss models. I wouldn't even call such a mode easy mode, bots could do that...

No they still wiped in DS. Right up until the end of cataclysm. I don't know how challenging it is but it doesn't matter. It's lfr. I mean I didn't think heroic dungeons were all that challenging and they weren't but throwing 5 people together to do that was such a fucking nightmare that it didn't matter. Now look what they did to "heroic" dungeons in this expansion. They're basically normals now. I tank them without even looking at the screen. The same thing can and should happen with lfr. You have normal raids and heroic raids for challenging gameplay and content. Go do them. I'm not sure why you think you also need dailies and lfr as well, christ just take the whole fucking game why don't you. Do I have your permission to log on? And I'm the one whos entitled....

Dailies done for the day. BY THE SWEAT OF MY VIRTUAL BROW!!! Now it's time to go put up a barn or something I don't know..

[smokii]

this may have already been mentioned in this thread, but i've not read it all, so apologies if it has.

THE TILLERS!!!

to do 90 dailies, all you need do is grow your farm with the tillers and keep your supplies of cookable food up - why? so you can do the really easy daily quests that require you to cook food for specific people around the heartland/halfhill.

there are 10 people you can give food to for daily quests, do that everyday (which takes about 10 mins including cooking time) and you've done 70 out of the 90 required dailies for the charms. add in the daily plant something quest, thats another 7 - oh look, only 13 dailies to go. (not counting any quests that might reward 2 lesser charms)

thats really not a hard grind. it might cost you some money on the AH to buy cooking mats, but if you do the cooking dailies you'll not have a problem getting your 90 dailies per week.

honestly, people bash lolwowfarmville, but they dont realise how useful it actually is (this isn't even counting the fact you can grow ores, herbs and motes of harmony!!)

[Deleted]

No they still wiped in DS. Right up until the end of cataclysm. I don't know how challenging it is but it doesn't matter. It's lfr. I mean I didn't think heroic dungeons were all that challenging and they weren't but throwing 5 people together to do that was such a fucking nightmare that it didn't matter. Now look what they did to "heroic" dungeons in this expansion. They're basically normals now. I tank them without even looking at the screen. The same thing can and should happen with lfr. You have normal raids and heroic raids for challenging gameplay and content. Go do them. I'm not sure why you think needs dailies and lfr, christ just take the whole fucking game why don't you. Do I have your permission to log on? And I'm the one whos entitled....

The same thing that can and should happen to LFR? What? LFR is easier than normal mode. If we made LFR any easier, I don't even know the reason for entering. DS was not even remotely hard, it required like no skills at all. An example, ultraxion or what's his face, the only thing you had to do was press the extra button at the right time. In normal mode and heroics you died instantly if you failed this, in LFR I think you survived it, but with like 30 % hp, people still failed at that, and took extra damage and died.

The pin-ball fight with that orb bouncing between the raid, in LFR you don't even have to look at it. The wall can bounce it too, which leave room for what tactics? None. Yeah it needs to be easier, right... Maybe it's not a problem with the difficulty, but with the people playing? Because they are obviously already afk if they wipe on something that easy. Hell leveling up in MoP is harder because you might overpull and die...

[jbombard]

No they still wiped in DS. Right up until the end of cataclysm. I don't know how challenging it is but it doesn't matter. It's lfr. I mean I didn't think heroic dungeons were all that challenging and they weren't but throwing 5 people together to do that was such a fucking nightmare that it didn't matter. Now look what they did to "heroic" dungeons in this expansion. They're basically normals now. I tank them without even looking at the screen. The same thing can and should happen with lfr. You have normal raids and heroic raids for challenging gameplay and content. Go do them. I'm not sure why you think needs dailies and lfr, christ just take the whole fucking game why don't you. Do I have your permission to log on? And I'm the one whos entitled....

Actually the end of cat was worse than the beginning. People were actually wiping on the first half towards the end. Frankly I have seen far too many groups break apart because some idiot wants to kill all the corruptions, or more than half the DPS want to AoE the blistering tentacles. Getting 5 good DPS that know what the hell they are doing, getting 2 tanks that know what they are doing, getting at least 3 heals that know what they are doing, that was what made LFR hard. Reading up on the MoP raids, there seem to be a lot of one idiot can wipe the raid mechanics. I haven't hit LFR yet so I'm not gonna pass judgement but honestly, from what history has shown me you can't teach people if you increase the difficulty of mechanics the number of wipes will just scale linearly.

[Jeina]

No. You don't have to do anything. It is completely optional.

[jbombard]

No. You don't have to do anything. It is completely optional.

Of course it all optional, hell you don't even have to logon or subscribe. Granted probably not the result Blizzard is looking for.

[Glorious Leader]

The same thing that can and should happen to LFR? What? LFR is easier than normal mode. If we made LFR any easier, I don't even know the reason for entering. DS was not even remotely hard, it required like no skills at all. An example, ultraxion or what's his face, the only thing you had to do was press the extra button at the right time. In normal mode and heroics you died instantly if you failed this, in LFR I think you survived it, but with like 30 % hp, people still failed at that, and took extra damage and died.

The pin-ball fight with that orb bouncing between the raid, in LFR you don't even have to look at it. The wall can bounce it too, which leave room for what tactics? None. Yeah it needs to be easier, right... Maybe it's not a problem with the difficulty, but with the people playing? Because they are obviously already afk if they wipe on something that easy. Hell leveling up in MoP is harder because you might overpull and die...

To gear up your tunes duh. I mean the point is that it's supposed to be for people who can't raid on a regular schedule to see content. Well the only way their gonna experience it is if it's mind numbigly easy that any group of people can do it. That's exactly what lfr is. Any group of people. I mean you keep missing the point. LFR just can't be hard at all. Heroic dungeons were "hard" in cataclysm. They got nerfed so badly because throwing a group of people together without any prior organization is doomed to fail. Unless the challenge is made so fucking stupidly easy that it doesn't matter what they do. THEY COULDN'T EVEN DO THE 5 MAN EQUIVALENT OF THIS. They need to be as easy as DS basically. It sucks I know but otherwise it just becomes a massive headache.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:01 AM ----------

Of course it all optional, hell you don't even have to logon or subscribe. Granted probably not the result Blizzard is looking for.

God can you imagine if they told players. PLAYING WOW IS OPTIONAL!. I mean no business in their right fucking mind would give up the golden goose Blizzard has in this game. The extension of the optional argument is exactly that though. I don't have to do anything wow. I do it and feel forced to do some of these things because they are the best options.

[Boogums]

FOUR TEE FAIVE?!?!?

That's 7 a day, get over it.

[Synstir]

People don't understand the concept of gaming I think.
Not everything can be a gind or so hard that it can't be completed without hours of training or study on some site.

I for one, don't read websites to know what I should be doing in a game; not that I don't want to but if I start doing that I won't have the time to play at all.
So I prefer to play and not to read how I should play.

So the time I can spare out of my responsibiities and other irl stuff, I spend online in wow.
if everything is damn challenging and I need hours and hours to progress then I think I would leave the game after a while.

I am playing since tbc and enjoying myself very much. WOW is the only computer-game I ever played. I don't have time to play and I am certainly not a gamer.
I like wow because in my youth I played D&D with some friends. AZeroth and the chars in it resemble D&D, so it caught me.
I am not good in gaming overall and I am not playing any game to be good at it; I play it to have fun, that's all.

I like MoP very much overall. In fact I have never really complained about anything in WOW. But now I see the direction they took is not providing me enjoyment anymore.
It feels more like I am working instead of gaiming. Now, I have quite a demanding job irl and what I don't need is a game which I buy and for which I pay a monthly fee to be boring and be a new job for me.

The end-game part of MoP is really making me think that this game is not for me anymore. Overall I think some things are really dumb, and I mean really dumb.
The reactions from blues on the official forums aren't rational also, they react to try to make a story of it and soften things, that is their job.

There is a reason for so much qq on the forums, official and others.

[Deleted]

Actually you are missing the point entirely. The problem is that different activities are not rewarded equally, so there is no real choice in what activities you do which is contrary to what Blizzard told us was going to happen.

Actually you just proved my point.

Is not about fun (that is of course subjective) or choosing about "this evening I want to do this, instead of that", it is about efficiency so -> "how fast will I gear" or "how can I gear as fast as possible" or "how fast can I get that loot over there."
They're not rewarded equally cause they're not equal or comparable activities.

Dailies are just long (not even that long) not difficult and anyway in half an hour/one hour you do enough to get around 80 Valor points that is around the time you need to do a Heroic (exlucing queue times) and you get even more cause I think first heroic is 60 valors? But heroic gives also chance to loot inside the instance itself, so even if the Valor/hour is less (maybe) the loot inside the instance offset it on a design level.

They also never said that the rewards would be equal, they just said that you may get "power increasing" rewards (points in this case) by doing different activities than just dungeons/raid

[Seani]

You GET to do these dailies forever! Its a privalege

[kassy]

people don't seem to realize you only get 1k valor per week... you'll be exalted long before you have enough valor to buy all items anyhow <.<

[Glorious Leader]

Actually you just proved my point.

Is not about fun (that is of course subjective) or choosing about "this evening I want to do this, instead of that", it is about efficiency so -> "how fast will I gear" or "how can I gear as fast as possible" or "how fast can I get that loot over there."
They're not rewarded equally cause they're not equal or comparable activities.

Dailies are just long (not even that long) not difficult and anyway in half an hour/one hour you do enough to get around 80 Valor points that is around the time you need to do a Heroic (exlucing queue times) and you get even more cause I think first heroic is 60 valors? But heroic gives also chance to loot inside the instance itself, so even if the Valor/hour is less (maybe) the loot inside the instance offset it on a design level.

They also never said that the rewards would be equal, they just said that you may get "power increasing" rewards (points in this case) by doing different activities than just dungeons/raid

Who the fuck in their right mind would choose to play SLOWER than everyone else around them? I mean do you drive at 30 even though the speed limit is 50? That's not Blizzards fault, that's just human nature.

[Deleted]

To gear up your tunes duh. I mean the point is that it's supposed to be for people who can't raid on a regular schedule to see content. Well the only way their gonna experience it is if it's mind numbigly easy that any group of people can do it. That's exactly what lfr is. Any group of people. I mean you keep missing the point. LFR just can't be hard at all. Heroic dungeons were "hard" in cataclysm. They got nerfed so badly because throwing a group of people together without any prior organization is doomed to fail. Unless the challenge is made so fucking stupidly easy that it doesn't matter what they do. THEY COULDN'T EVEN DO THE 5 MAN EQUIVALENT OF THIS. They need to be as easy as DS basically. It sucks I know but otherwise it just becomes a massive headache.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:01 AM ----------



God can you imagine if they told players. PLAYING WOW IS OPTIONAL!. I mean no business in their right fucking mind would give up the golden goose Blizzard has in this game. The extension of the optional argument is exactly that though. I don't have to do anything wow. I do it and feel forced to do some of these things because they are the best options.

But it isn't hard at all, and any group can handle it, once they actually try a couple of times. It's impossible to make an encounter that 25 random people with no skill or gear can handle unless it's a fight that really allows 20 people to be afk, and if that's the case, just remove the need for tanks and healers altogether. Let it be like scenarios and let people queue as 3 people of any dps spec and just burst it down. But then it's not even a raid, which LFR barely is anyway...

The point of LFR is for people with no time at all in their hands to still get to experience the content, well guess what, there is no content to experience if ALL it is, I mean really, really all it is, is tank and spank. If there is no other element to the fight, at all, that all the bosses are copy pasted from each other, then what content is there to experience?

[Glorious Leader]

But it isn't hard at all, and any group can handle it, once they actually try a couple of times. It's impossible to make an encounter that 25 random people with no skill or gear can handle unless it's a fight that really allows 20 people to be afk, and if that's the case, just remove the need for tanks and healers altogether. Let it be like scenarios and let people queue as 3 people of any dps spec and just burst it down. But then it's not even a raid, which LFR barely is anyway...

No not really. They did a pretty good job overall in DS. It was easy enough but groups still died all the time. Again I agree it isn't hard but asking 5 people to do that was to much in cata why do you expect it won't be just as bad with 25 people in mists?

they won't make it scenarios because people wan't to see raid content. They don't want raid challenge and don't really have the time to invest in raid challenge but why should they miss out on the rp and story bullshit? Or the gear for that matter? You have you normals and heroic raids. You can lord over everybody with your super epics and nobody will care.

[Deleted]

No not really. They did a pretty good job overall in DS. It was easy enough but groups still died all the time. Again I agree it isn't hard but asking 5 people to do that was to much in cata why do you expect it won't be just as bad with 25 people in mists?

they won't make it scenarios because people wan't to see raid content. They don't want raid challenge and don't really have the time to invest in raid challenge but why should they miss out on the rp and story bullshit? Or the gear for that matter? You have you normals and heroic raids. You can lord over everybody with your super epics and nobody will care.

It's NOT a CHALLENGE though, normal mode is piss easy and LFR is even easier in that, it require no skill what so ever! DS was super easy and should not have been any easier than it was! Blizzard confirmed that they agreed with this by not adding the stacking debuff to LFR because they were happy with the difficulty.

So what if people wipe every now in then in LFR? If they are THAT TERRIBLE, they deserve to wipe, they don't even deserve to see the content, if they are THAT terrible.

As I said before, if they make LFR any easier there isn't even any point in bringing a raid there.

[Deleted]

Who the fuck in their right mind would choose to play SLOWER than everyone else around them? I mean do you drive at 30 even though the speed limit is 50? That's not Blizzards fault, that's just human nature.

Italic part, is kind spot on, at the same time it is not really Blizzard fault to have developed different systems to get stuff and human nature decided that everything is absolutely mandatory. Is it not?

Me seems I prefer to defy human nature and take my time. Or maybe is because I do not give a flying **** about what the people around me do. Not even a tiny little bitty bit.

I'm not doing Golden Lotus cause at the moment can't be hassled to do so regularly, gear is not a problem anyway between craft and the occasional Pug for Sha/Galleon. I'm not "drooling" of rage because some purples are locked behind reputations cause there are alternatives already to get fairly good gear, the day I don't want to do dailies I simply wont' compalint cause charms of good fortune are locked behind the dailies cause you know, I only do things that are "fun" the moment they stop to be fun I, personally, simply won't do them anymore regardless of the "speed limit".

Edit: To be honest I think your similitude is also a bit off with your premise (that "slower than everyone else around you"). Is more like the limit is 100km/h you go 80km/h (that is a normal and fair cruise speed on a highway) see one going 100 so since he's going 100 you have to go 100 too. Oh noes.

Edit2: normal and fair for italian standards.

[Glorious Leader]

Italic part, is kind spot on, at the same time it is not really Blizzard fault to have developed different systems to get stuff and human nature decided that everything is absolutely mandatory. Is it not?

Me seems I prefer to defy human nature and take my time. Or maybe is because I do not give a flying **** about what the people around me do. Not even a tiny little bitty bit.

I'm not doing Golden Lotus cause at the moment can't be hassled to do so regularly, gear is not a problem anyway between craft and the occasional Pug for Sha/Galleon. I'm not "drooling" of rage because some purples are locked behind reputations cause there are alternatives already to get fairly good gear, the day I don't want to do dailies I simply wont' compalint cause charms of good fortune are locked behind the dailies cause you know, I only do things that are "fun" the moment they stop to be fun I, personally, simply won't do them anymore regardless of the "speed limit".

Edit: To be honest I think your similitude is also a bit off with your premise (that "slower than everyone else around you"). Is more like the limit is 100km/h you go 80km/h (that is a normal and fair cruise speed on a highway) see one going 100 so since he's going 100 you have to go 100 too. Oh noes.

Edit2: normal and fair for italian standards.

It actually is Blizzards fault. They know people act like this. They've known it years now. They've reinforced and rewarded this behavior for years. Why they think turn around and say not so much and then not expect people to be pissed is retarded. Frankly I don't see the problem with the older system aside from it being to much fun.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:50 AM ----------

It's NOT a CHALLENGE though, normal mode is piss easy and LFR is even easier in that, it require no skill what so ever! DS was super easy and should not have been any easier than it was! Blizzard confirmed that they agreed with this by not adding the stacking debuff to LFR because they were happy with the difficulty.

So what if people wipe every now in then in LFR? If they are THAT TERRIBLE, they deserve to wipe, they don't even deserve to see the content, if they are THAT terrible.

As I said before, if they make LFR any easier there isn't even any point in bringing a raid there.

Well since you apparently feel it's your right to tell people what they can and can't do in the game I think turnabout is only fair play. If it's too easy the too bad find another game. DS was super easy and I hope LFR in mists is that same difficulty. If you don't like it well then leave. If your that good your obviously to good for warcraft...

[Madhoof]

You don't have to, though. You can run dungeons. Heroics will give you lvl 463 gear, and you'll be fine to enter LFR or normal raids. You don't have to touch dailys, the VP gear is only there for those times you don't get stuff. And the coins are just a bonus roll, there's no guarantee you get stuff from that other than some gold.

Of course I don't have to. But the disadvantages are quite obvious, therefore that isn't a valid argument in my eyes.

So find a friend to do the daily quests with and heal him. Best overall solution to that would otherwise be to indroduce companions like in SW:TOR, having either a DPS, tank, or healer role depending on what you prefer.

The problem is: there is no need for a private healer when you make daylies so actually I would just run around do nothing and would even slow down my mate in terms of collection quests. While I appreciate the try to find a solution and not just repeating "you don't have to" I must state, that this scenario doesn't sound very appealing.