Universal Healthcare

[vindicatorx]

Complete bollocks. Unless you have any statistics to back this up, you're just echoing the Conservative news channels.

If you are seeing a specialist it takes less time on average to see a doctor in the US than say Canada which is why a lot of them come here.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/re...-care-in-2011/

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:20 PM ----------

Translated: TL;DR - I got mine, so screw you and yours.

I would prefer to think of it as "I paid for mine, why do you expect me to pay for yours?"

[Tinykong]

I always find it interesting that some people think people are refusing health care, and that they are getting stuck with some tax burden because of it. If a person doesn't carry insurance, and winds up going to the hospital and can't afford the bill, the government doesn't cut them a check (except a very small selection of hospitals in extremely poor areas.) The hospital winds up eating that loss, or selling it off to a credit collection agency for pennies on the dollar. They then pass that business loss on to other customers, or it comes out of their profits.

You don't hear anyone screaming and complaining about that same practice taking place in say, the credit card industry. And, in that particular case, it's even worse, because credit is elective, medical problems are not.

Also, a choice between having insurance coverage or being able to afford to live isn't a choice to most people. And before you toss in the poverty card and Medicaid, realize that there is a significant number of Americans that make too much money to get Medicaid coverage, yet are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford $200-300 a month for medical coverage. And lol at a medical plan that is "affordable" that has a $5,000 total plan deductible. Why even have that coverage, you're effectively priced out of being able to use it in the first place, and your plan premium is just being looted from your pockets to offset the cost of the sick.

[Elegiac]

If you are seeing a specialist it takes less time on average to see a doctor in the US than say Canada which is why a lot of them come here.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/re...-care-in-2011/

Far be it for me to question the Daily Caller.

[Jackmoves]

If you are seeing a specialist it takes less time on average to see a doctor in the US than say Canada which is why a lot of them come here.

Well I think thats totally correct, I think what people might be argueing against is the quality of care once one gets it.
Some americans seem to believe that the rest of the west is 2nd rate countries when it comes to the actual quality of care one receives, I doubt US healthcare quality is significantly better then other nations. Our doctors and nurses are very skilled, most modern hospitals got fantastic tech etc.

[Elegiac]

Well I think thats totally correct, I think what people might be argueing against is the quality of care once one gets it.
Some americans seem to believe that the rest of the west is 2nd rate countries when it comes to the actual quality of care one receives, I doubt US healthcare quality is significantly better then other nations. Our doctors and nurses are very skilled, most modern hospitals got fantastic tech etc.

The US has very high rated healthcare.

The problem is, it's an outlier. Only the wealthy recieve it. If you disregarded that outlier, the US would come around 35th in Healthcare.

[Masark]

If you are seeing a specialist it takes less time on average to see a doctor in the US than say Canada which is why a lot of them come here.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/re...-care-in-2011/[COLOR="red"]

The nonpartisan Fraser Institute

Hahahahahahahaha.

The only way the Fraser institute could get any more partisan would be if the Conservative party purchased them.

Furthermore, their thousands "fleeing" the country is a massive 0.13% of Canadians and a whole 5% of patients.

[Jackmoves]

The US has very high rated healthcare.

The problem is, it's an outlier. Only the wealthy recieve it. If you disregarded that outlier, the US would come around 35th in Healthcare.

Well I know that, but the actual quality of treatment one gets in countries with socialized healthcare is absolutely fine, what I agree with is that wait times for elective surgery is longer though.

[Zhangfei]

Hahahahahahahaha.

The only way the Fraser institute could get any more partisan would be if the Conservative party purchased them.

Furthermore, their thousands "fleeing" the country is a massive 0.13% of Canadians and a whole 5% of patients.

Most countries with nationalised healthcare offer private hospitals too - I know people travel to Canada, France and Britain for treatment in both public and private hospitals too.

It's a terrible argument.

[Grim Retailer]

Every year, 80 000 people come to the US for medical treatment. And 1,5 million leave it for medical treatment. That is not counting the 2 million or so that go to Canada for perscription drugs. It is one of the most humiliating rejection of a system by citizens voting with their feet ever seen.

http:// content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full

PS: The Fraser institute is as nonpartisan as a Big Tobacco-employed researcer on lung cancer.

[Masark]

PS: The Fraser institute is as nonpartisan as a Big Tobacco-employed researcher on lung cancer.

You might want to choose a different analogy. That one is circular.

[Karrotlord]

I would prefer to think of it as "I paid for mine, why do you expect me to pay for yours?"

Because they already paid for yours. How do you think insurance works? They pool income and pay it out as necessary, whether to you or any other of their customers. UHS works by pooling taxes and paying it out as necessary, whether to you or any other tax payer. Why do so many have a hard time accepting the second scenario? It's the exact same economic principal!!

[Elegiac]

Because they already paid for yours. How do you think insurance works? They pool income and pay it out as necessary, whether to you or any other of their customers. UHS works by pooling taxes and paying it out as necessary, whether to you or any other tax payer. Why do so many have a hard time accepting the second scenario? It's the exact same economic principal!!

Because the government is not (or rather, should not be) out to make a profit. Insurance companies are.

[Grim Retailer]

You might want to choose a different analogy. That one is circular.

How so? Researchers working for tobbacco companies are well known for having denied the link between smoking and lung cancer, one of the best documented cause-effect relationships in the history of biomedical research. The Fraser institiute publishes stuff like the O’Neill’s “Health Status, Health Care and Inequality" and other pieces which grossly ignores the body of evidence in health care and Health Care Economics.

Both knowingly publishes inaccurate work dressed up as research to support an agenda. The analogy appears precise to me.

[Karrotlord]

Because the government is not (or rather, should not be) out to make a profit. Insurance companies are.

Exactly. That makes it better from both ethical and economic points, at least from a consumer's perspective. Shouldn't that make people like it more?

[Masark]

The Fraser institiute publishes stuff like the O’Neill’s “Health Status, Health Care and Inequality" and other pieces which grossly ignores the body of evidence in health care and Health Care Economics.

That's what I meant. Comparing the Fraser Institute to tobacco-company-funded researchers is comparing them to themselves.

[Elegiac]

Exactly. That makes it better from both ethical and economic points, at least from a consumer's perspective. Shouldn't that make people like it more?

Not if you're American. It's a cultural thing, stemming from the Constitutional provision that the states are responsible for Healthcare.

Fuck Federalism. That is all.

[This name sucks]

I had to wait for ~18 months to get a minor surgery done in Canada.

Waiting for just under 2 years to get it absolutely free was worth it.

Although waiting for so long to get my ear fixed (which was damaged from another surgery) kind of sucked.

[Orlong]

Yet Europe has plenty of doctors because the pay is still fantastic.

Seriously, do you really think these things through? Money isn't as big a deal as many people seem to think.

Money is EVERYTHING!. Its what rules the world

[Deleted]

Money is EVERYTHING!. Its what rules the world

Don't refute point.

Make clichéd statement.

Carry on.

[Orlong]

I had to wait for ~18 months to get a minor surgery done in Canada.

Waiting for just under 2 years to get it absolutely free was worth it.

Although waiting for so long to get my ear fixed (which was damaged from another surgery) kind of sucked.

And in the US you wouldve gotten that minor surgery the week after you were told you needed it, possibly reducing issues in the future that might occur due to waiting so long to get that surgery