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  1. #441
    Deleted
    I really don't understand why people are debating about 10/25 mans. There are some fights that are harder as 25 man and some fights that are harder as 10 man. Some are telling that it's harder to get 25 very talented players together, yes it's maybe harder but it doesn't take credit off from 10 man guilds. Now that I have said these things I can say that Paragon was the best 25-man guild in Cataclysm and half from Wotlk and yes I remember kin raiders took world first from DS but still overall Paragon was the best guild in Cataclysm. Now when they are 10-man. There isn't any guild that can challenge them on these world first kills.

    Ps: Don't rage too much for the fact

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekthar91 View Post
    I really don't understand why people are debating about 10/25 mans. There are some fights that are harder as 25 man and some fights that are harder as 10 man. Some are telling that it's harder to get 25 very talented players together, yes it's maybe harder but it doesn't take credit off from 10 man guilds. Now that I have said these things I can say that Paragon was the best 25-man guild in Cataclysm and half from Wotlk and yes I remember kin raiders took world first from DS but still overall Paragon was the best guild in Cataclysm. Now when they are 10-man. There isn't any guild that can challenge them on these world first kills.

    Ps: Don't rage too much for the fact
    A Paragon member himself came here to tell people like you to stop fawning over their every step, because 10 and 25man are different fucking races. If we keep pushing this notion then there will be no point to having 25man races at all, because every 25man group can just get their 10 best players and do with that.

    And DarthThrall's last post is hilarious. First he says "your opinion doesn't matter unless you're a Paragon member", and when a Paragon member tells him he's being an idiot, he uses every word in his vocabulary to try to bring him down. You don't seem to understand there are two different races going on here.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  3. #443
    Paragon don't count because they're 10 man. 10 man means nothing.

    Nihilum won't get rank 6 either, probably won't even be top 50.

    They have a lot of creases to iron out before they're anywhere near ready to contend for even top 10.

    My money is on Method, but I'm biased I doubt Blood Legion will make much noise, same with Stars.

  4. #444
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    I doubt Blood Legion will make much noise
    They just went 4/6, how about that.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthThrall View Post
    Secondly, just because you think your opinion is special because you are in Paragon doesn't make it any more important or valid than the opinions of others.

    You may state that you are in a different race than the 25 man guilds, but you are not. The guild who gets World First is the winner of the race, at the minute you and your guild are one boss away from that.
    I don't think my opinion is more important than that of others, but looking at the level of discussion coming from you and many others, I'd say they're a bit more valid. And that has nothing to do with my position anywhere.

    And I'm sorry but you can't undo my statements or arguments with a simple "no you are wrong." When we raided 25-man, we never considered ourselves as partakers in the 10-man 'race' and now that we're 10-man, we don't really consider ourselves as partakers in the 25-man 'race.' There's 2 world firsts up for each boss, and the one you respect more is up to you. But you should respect that not everyone will agree with you. Personally, I respect both to some degree, though the guild I'll respect most will be Method when they take their long-deserved 25HC World Firsts. I (still) think 25HC kills are a bigger deal, but I'm fine with anyone disagreeing.

    Considering I'm not the only one thinking this, you really need to stop spewing bullshit and inciting 10/25 flamewars. However stupid it may be, you made your opinion clear and unless you can come up with an intelligent argument for defending it, you can let others decide what it is worth. Meanwhile let other people discuss actually relevant topics and root for their favorite guilds instead of beating a dead horse and enforcing your opinion upon everyone.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-10-11 at 03:17 AM.

  6. #446
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Diivil View Post
    Paragon at 5/6 =) The next 10 man guilds still at 2/6 =(
    Paragon are monsters

    10man vs 25man
    I agree with Hermanni, 10man vs 25man is like futsal vs soccer.
    Maybe one day wowprogress will show only split rankings.
    Last edited by mmoc1b43ea75ac; 2012-10-11 at 03:09 AM.

  7. #447
    There can be only one FIRST.
    Did you think we had forgotten? Did you think we had forgiven?

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by tinatus View Post
    They just went 4/6, how about that.
    Took them long enough.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    Paragon don't count because they're 10 man. 10 man means nothing.

    Nihilum won't get rank 6 either, probably won't even be top 50.

    They have a lot of creases to iron out before they're anywhere near ready to contend for even top 10.

    My money is on Method, but I'm biased I doubt Blood Legion will make much noise, same with Stars.
    Paragon is all that counts because they're 10 man. 25 man means nothing. See I can make absolute statements too.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    MMO Champ is not the supreme judge, but since its the place where we are in... i think its relevant what the community we are in said about this last expansion.
    Still i can't understand how people can say a guild is not WF when they kill it first, just because it is 10 man. For me, and more people everyday 10 do count.

    Anyway, Blizzard should end this and make one new unique size. 15 / 16 / 18 man, what they think it's better and that's it. 1 unique raid size.

  11. #451
    Lol. I didn't realize there were Paragon members posting in this thread and I even quoted one.

    DarkThrall arguing with Paragon totally made this thread. /thumbsup

  12. #452
    Deleted
    So many chimps here who don't even know Diivil and quoting him like crying babies who don't even understand what they are talking about...

  13. #453
    I'd like to see Blood Legion win 25man Progression tbh. That I think would be awesome, considering they've been up amongst the best, but still kinda been the underdogs.
    In my honest opinion I think they've deserved it just as much as Method does :P

  14. #454
    Field Marshal Gunmonkey90's Avatar
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    When i started playing, Nihilum & Kungen was the heroes.. So would be cool to see a comeback there...
    "As Dark as a Ravens flight, Cold as Winters night"

  15. #455
    Stood in the Fire Haizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daftone View Post
    Paragon is all that counts because they're 10 man. 25 man means nothing. See I can make absolute statements too.
    If you look at the facts your statement isn't so absolute:
    1. Raids are originally balanced around 25mans, then nerfed to make it viable for 10man. Generally making it easier overall(both heroic and 25m).
    2. 25 decent raiders are harder to find, and keeping the communication on a high level is also tough. Which is why 25m gets more then what 10m has, though getting more doesn't make it easier at all.
    3. 10 man is completely under-tuned this expansion. I've done both so far, and the mechanics were pretty much laughable when we switched. Ignoring mechanics just to heal through them isn't quite the right design.

    I digress, 10man and 25man are usually pretty equal and there isn't much difference in terms of difficulty. Neither is better than the other overall, and I wish they would settle on one raid size. That being said, Paragon will probably get world first with Blood Legion shortly behind if you count both. Considering the difficulty difference, BL will be considered the actual world first.

  16. #456
    Mechagnome Tekloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthThrall View Post
    Blizzard themselves made the Realm First Achievement count in both 10 and 25 mans why would the same not apply to World First? You do realize your own argument is invalid by saying you are not in the same race as the 25 man guilds, yet if you go to wowprogress you will find yourself ranked #1 on the homepage. You may not be racing against Method but you are beating them nonetheless.
    Let's see now....

    OH, LOOK!

    http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier14_25

    Blood Legion is ranked #1!

    But wait....what's this?!

    http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier14_10

    DREAM Paragon is ranked #1 as well! WHAT IS THIS SORCERY?!


    Oh yea, I almost forgot that you were talking about the main page #1.

    http://www.wowprogress.com/

    DREAM Paragon (10)
    Blood Legion (25 recruiting)

    Even the MAIN PAGE separates the 2 difficulties!

    I really fail to see your point in this, other than that DREAM Paragon will be listed as the first guild on the main page.
    But even then, there's that 10 man tag behind the guild name. Anyone with even a nanogram of common sense in their brain can see that it's a 10 man guild. If people really are interested in only the 25 man race, then why the hell would they look at the rankings of both difficulties of the tier combined, when they can, with a simple click of the left mouse button, look at the difficulties separated to both brackets?


    Disclaimer:
    This post isn't meant to incite yet another 10v25 debate.
    Last edited by Tekloth; 2012-10-11 at 05:09 AM.

  17. #457
    Paragon made a huge push tonight sitting at 5/6 now!

  18. #458
    Cant we all just get along?

    The world first race is always fun to see how it plays out, no need to bicker about it.

  19. #459
    Deleted
    1. Paragon
    2. Method
    3. Stars or Kin Raiders

  20. #460
    What people fail to understand is that paragon was the best at 25 man, now they the best at 10 man, if they get world first they get world first and they still the best raiding grp. It also shows that blizzard has done a good job with balancing the raids cause the rankings haven't changed, Paragon still number 1.

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