World First Race:

[Ryme]

Their server reset is Thursday, so they started today.

Wow, it always bugged me about whether or not kill time relative to raid opening should be factored into world firsts.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:51 PM ----------

Useless poll. I am just going to vote for 25 man just for the fun of it.

I felt it served a decent purpose of getting the opinion of the forum.

[Deleted]

Wow, it always bugged me about whether or not kill time relative to raid opening should be factored into world firsts.[COLOR="red"]

Such a difference in start times is why I personally feel it absolutely should be factored into it.

[Keyur]

ok just leave 10 vs 25 for the moment please...I am wondering about world first race...Is it even fare race?

I mean raid content available for US, EU and Asia have marginally huge difference in time. Still you guys consider this is fare race and hyped too much. 10 vs 25 man comes after proper race format. Its not even same track for everyone and you guys are taking about 25 man's engine is bigger than 10 man.

[Gilian]

Wow, it always bugged me about whether or not kill time relative to raid opening should be factored into world firsts.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:51 PM ----------



I felt it served a decent purpose of getting the opinion of the forum.

Well, I can't vote any of them because I have a different opinion. Besides that what's the point of knowing the opinion of the forum? The only thing that will happen is people pointing at this poll like it's proof for something and the useless discussion about 10 vs 25 man will just continue.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:02 PM ----------

ok just leave 10 vs 25 for the moment please...I am wondering about world first race...Is it even fare race?

I mean raid content available for US, EU and Asia have marginally huge difference in time. Still you guys consider this is fare race and hyped too much. 10 vs 25 man comes after proper race format. Its not even same track for everyone and you guys are taking about 25 man's engine is bigger than 10 man.

It has been like that since the beginning. And since the beginning EU has always gotten world firsts (as far as I know) while US gets the content hours before the EU. If US gets world first we will ofcourse substract the amount of hours and then see who was really first.

[Deleted]

when Stars are able to start in the race for world first?
currently they are rank 69 fighting against garajal about 5 hours so imo they will beat him in the next hours

[Christan]

Such a difference in start times is why I personally feel it absolutely should be factored into it.

i agree with this and from the US,
also

10 or 25, doesn't matter to me, though i do think 10m is harder since 1 vs 3 bres's, and any mistakes on 10m are more drastic(usually)
feng during arcane phase, the dot might be an exception for 25m, one small mistake there means 1 player BOOM's the raid, though 10m it wipes also so heh... same difference

[Keyur]

It has been like that since the beginning. And since the beginning EU has always gotten world firsts (as far as I know) while US gets the content hours before the EU. If US gets world first we will ofcourse substract the amount of hours and then see who was really first.

Well thats not fare then. There is possibility when Asian people dont even get chance to participate in race.

[vizzle]

Well thats not fare then. There is possibility when Asian people dont even get chance to participate in race.

Tiers are supposed to last long enough that 1-2 days difference doesn't really matter. This one might have been one of those tiers if it wasn't cut in thirds.

[stomination]

Paragon are monsters


I agree with Hermanni, 10man vs 25man is like futsal vs soccer.
Maybe one day wowprogress will show only split rankings.

They do. you can click tier14(25) and tier 14(10). But most ppl go the lazy route and just sit at t14.

Only thing i want is for worldoflogs to fix the detection on difficulty.

[Dukenukem]

ok just leave 10 vs 25 for the moment please...I am wondering about world first race...Is it even fare race?

I mean raid content available for US, EU and Asia have marginally huge difference in time. Still you guys consider this is fare race and hyped too much. 10 vs 25 man comes after proper race format. Its not even same track for everyone and you guys are taking about 25 man's engine is bigger than 10 man.

The time difference was never stopping EU guilds to get World Firsts in past. its only factor for normals that noone care for.
In ICC Vodka got 7/12H before Paragon even could log into game and still they got WF.

They do. you can click tier14(25) and tier 14(10). But most ppl go the lazy route and just sit at t14.

Only thing i want is for worldoflogs to fix the detection on difficulty.

I dont know but WoWProgress sometime missreads guilds who have multiple 10man groups as 25 kills. They could make some fixing on this side too.

[Deleted]

It isn't nonsensical unless the reader lacks sense.

It is nonsensical. There are two races. Period. You're talking about some third, abstract race that you've constructed by combining the two actual races. Such a race has very little point given that the actual races are fundamentally different. Being first to kill 10 man version of some boss is completely orthogonal to being the first to kill 25 man version. They're two very, very different things.

If you want to treat it as 2 different races, that is cool.

It is two different races, you're the one trying to treat it as one. You can't just take your 10 man guild and down the 25 man boss, if you wanted to do that you'd have all your work still ahead of you. These things are not interchangeable, they're fundamentally different.

[Keyur]

Tiers are supposed to last long enough that 1-2 days difference doesn't really matter. This one might have been one of those tiers if it wasn't cut in thirds.

Its nothing to do with showing up last long enough content and 1-2 days difference really matter for world first race. Whats relation between split content and time difference for launching content?

[stomination]

Awh man, mage perspective who doesn't even go to spirit world

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:23 PM ----------



To be fair, at least on MMO-C, the majority seem to support 10 mans counting as world first now: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...rld-First-race

Im glad only 529 ppl is a big enough sample size.

[Deleted]

I'm not at all sure, but I think wowprogress takes account of the time difference when they give the overall ranks. Definitely don't know for sure though, if someone does it'd be great to know!

I dont know but WoWProgress sometime missreads guilds who have multiple 10man groups as 25 kills. They could make some fixing on this side too.

To be fair, I think they've done a great job separating them once the separate achievements went, if Blizzard really do bring back the separate achievements that'd solve an awful lot of issues.

[vizzle]

Its nothing to do with showing up last long enough content and 1-2 days difference really matter for world first race. Whats relation between split content and time difference for launching content?

The difference is that in most tiers (every tier up until this one), 1-2 days isn't the difference between world first and world second. Get it? Nobody cares about any boss other than the last boss. The best guilds in the world steam past most of the bosses within a week or two, then the last boss is where they all meet, and whatever difference there had been usually isn't the difference anymore.

And I never said there was a relationship between splitting content and the time difference, but rather that by splitting all the content, there are less buffer bosses before the last bosses, so less time before the last people in the race get to catch up before the first US/EU already begin practicing.

[Deleted]

Hi Kungen, eventually worked out who you were. You used the exact same name to troll on the Everquest forums. Come on bro, got to try harder than that.

Oh, damn. You caught me. Time for a new account I think?

[Keyur]

The time difference was never stopping EU guilds to get World Firsts in past. its only factor for normals that noone care for.
In ICC Vodka got 7/12H before Paragon even could log into game and still they got WF.

Well thats the different thing - its skill level of different guilds.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 06:43 PM ----------

The difference is that in most tiers (every tier up until this one), 1-2 days isn't the difference between world first and world second. Get it? Nobody cares about any boss other than the last boss. The best guilds in the world steam past most of the bosses within a week or two, then the last boss is where they all meet, and whatever difference there had been usually isn't the difference anymore.

You are talking about how race is going for each tire. Thats true nobody cares about any boss other than last boss. Its not necessary - the last boss is where they all meet. If you are right then lets see how stars and kin raiders can reach 5/6 HC before Paragon or any other guild can down end boss. They have about 1-2 days disadvantage in this race.

[Ryme]

Im glad only 529 ppl is a big enough sample size.

It is, more than enough: http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

[vizzle]

Well thats the different thing - its skill level of different guilds.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 06:43 PM ----------



You are talking about how race is going for each tire. Thats true nobody cares about any boss other than last boss. Its not necessary - the last boss is where they all meet. If you are right then lets see how stars and kin raiders can reach 5/6 HC before Paragon or any other guild can down end boss. They have about 1-2 days disadvantage in this race.

You're not listening to anything I'm saying.

[Deleted]

It will be method. If paragon stayed 25 it would be them but 10 man is harder so they can't compete with methods 25. They will come in 2nd or 3rd. Blood legion will never be 1st. They had their chance last tier had a whole week head start and lost it. Hell paragon came back after a week ban and would have beat them if they hadn't taken christmas off.

Oh how this made me lol