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  1. #101
    The Lightbringer Tzalix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWarrior View Post
    I don't support this behavior. As long as the majority of the group is with me, I am right.
    You're saying democracy must always be right?

    Yeah, even Hitler was elected through voting. That turned out great.
    "In life, I was raised to hate the undead. Trained to destroy them. When I became Forsaken, I hated myself most of all. But now I see it is the Alliance that fosters this malice. The human kingdoms shun their former brothers and sisters because we remind them what's lurking beneath the facade of flesh. It's time to end their cycle of hatred. The Alliance deserves to fall." - Lilian Voss

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by tzalix View Post

    yeah, even hitler was elected through voting. That turned out great.
    godwinned!!

  3. #103
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    there is a bug in the system, I was on my priest and these boots dropped, with nice int spirit and haste - pretty beast for shadow, So i rolled need, the druid goes bananas and I check it turns out they were leather, I just assumed because I could need them that they were cloth - really weird

  4. #104
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    There is a bit of an awkward cross over with some spell dps and healer gear because of the spirit = hit mechanic that Priests, Moonkin, Elem Shammies have. There are some who would argue that if an item has spirit on it, then it is ONLY for healers, but I tend to disagree. It works fine for the afore mentioned DPS specs too, so yes a spell dps can roll on spirit gear for this reason.

    Unfortunately, the loot system is not sophisticated enough to determine if a cloth dps is a priest or a mage for example, or likewise a Moonkin or a Warlock in the case of neck / trinket / ring items. So yes, there are nasty cross overs which cause arguments but really I think there is no right or wrong from this respect.

    Also, it seems there are definite bugs in the system which obviously we will just have to live with until they are sorted. To be honest, people will rage about these bugs and start doing their "AWMAGAWD BLIZZ SORT THIS CRAP OUT NAAAOW I PAY MONEY FOR THIS" but really, Blizzard have bigger problems than a buggy loot system right now. For example, my game crashes in every single raid I do and without reason. Its started happening ever since 5.0.4 and I have even tried with a fresh install of WoW with no addons. Its a bug with the patch and my graphics card and there is nothing I can do. THIS is a real reason to rage. Give things some perspective.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by stiglet View Post
    There is a bit of an awkward cross over with some spell dps and healer gear because of the spirit = hit mechanic that Priests, Moonkin, Elem Shammies have. There are some who would argue that if an item has spirit on it, then it is ONLY for healers, but I tend to disagree. It works fine for the afore mentioned DPS specs too, so yes a spell dps can roll on spirit gear for this reason.

    Unfortunately, the loot system is not sophisticated enough to determine if a cloth dps is a priest or a mage for example, or likewise a Moonkin or a Warlock in the case of neck / trinket / ring items. So yes, there are nasty cross overs which cause arguments but really I think there is no right or wrong from this respect.

    Also, it seems there are definite bugs in the system which obviously we will just have to live with until they are sorted. To be honest, people will rage about these bugs and start doing their "AWMAGAWD BLIZZ SORT THIS CRAP OUT NAAAOW I PAY MONEY FOR THIS" but really, Blizzard have bigger problems than a buggy loot system right now. For example, my game crashes in every single raid I do and without reason. Its started happening ever since 5.0.4 and I have even tried with a fresh install of WoW with no addons. Its a bug with the patch and my graphics card and there is nothing I can do. THIS is a real reason to rage. Give things some perspective.
    If, I play shadow priest atm, cloth with spirit drops and the healer also wears cloth and it is a good upgrade for me then I would simply first ask if he needs it before I press need. If you ask it like a normal person would then the other person might also have some consideration for you.
    I am not going to need on everything I can simply because it will only cause more people to act like assholes. If someone wants to abuse that then so be it. In the end if you just play fair and sometimes skip on some loot everyone will get geared faster than when everyone just needs to vendor or for an offspec.

    The excuse of people needing to get gear for their offspec because they have been leveling as tank the whole time is also a joke. You can simply buy some 450 gear for justice points (everyone says JPs are useless anyway).

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 01:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzalix View Post
    You're saying democracy must always be right?

    Yeah, even Hitler was elected through voting. That turned out great.
    Yes and then he killed everyone who was against him. People didn't vote for his genocide and war against the rest of the world. People didn't have a choice he was a dictator.

    Get your history straight.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 02:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    there is a bug in the system, I was on my priest and these boots dropped, with nice int spirit and haste - pretty beast for shadow, So i rolled need, the druid goes bananas and I check it turns out they were leather, I just assumed because I could need them that they were cloth - really weird
    Same with plate. By some peoples logic I have every right to need on plate, mail and leather while I am a cloth user. That says something.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 02:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuvio View Post
    This guy gets it. It's LFD: roll need on everything that is an upgrade to you for either or your specs. That's the whole point of running the dungeon: points and gear. Really don't get that people have the notion that the rule MS > OS applies to LFD.

    However, being able to roll on armor of a type not related to your class is just a bug, that should not happen. I personally wouldn't roll need on leather or mail as a plate wearer just because I can.

    Also, there can be no ninja'ing bar bugs in LFD, you can roll on anything you want as long as you can use it.
    See, that is just your opinion. Your personal rule that you can't roll need on items you can't use is the same as someone elses rule that MS > OS.

    Me needing on plate would also not be ninjaing according to some people because Blizzards system lets me able to need on it.

  6. #106
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seweryn View Post
    They should add something from the lfr to lfd for example if dps plate drops and you are plate dps you should have the priority roll on this item.
    They did note a few weeks back that they were looking into putting the LFR personal-loot system into dungeons, or at least DS LFR's smarter loot system with need+ and better class/spec detection.

    Long story short, they do agree dungeon looting is messed up, and seem to be looking into some fixes Soon (TM).
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  7. #107
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    If, I play shadow priest atm, cloth with spirit drops and the healer also wears cloth and it is a good upgrade for me then I would simply first ask if he needs it before I press need. If you ask it like a normal person would then the other person might also have some consideration for you.
    I am not going to need on everything I can simply because it will only cause more people to act like assholes. If someone wants to abuse that then so be it. In the end if you just play fair and sometimes skip on some loot everyone will get geared faster than when everyone just needs to vendor or for an offspec.

    Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think you quite missed my point. Spirit gear for Spriests is considered BEST IN SLOT for dps specs by a lot of players. If you play a Shadow priest, and you roll on spirit gear, you are not rolling for off spec you are rolling for main spec and for BiS gear. Both haste and spirit are really strong stats for shadow priests right now, and if you have a choice between gear with spirit and haste on one piece and crit and mastery on another piece, any good shadow priest will take the spirit gear and quite rightly so.

    In Cataclysm there were a great number of items that were best in slot for a Priest even though they were spirit gear. In my opinion, a healer does not always have automatic priority over an item just because it has spirit on it. That's what I'm saying.

    Take Tier 13 for example, the best in slot peice for neck item for s shadow priest was the neck from Morchok. It had spirit on it. The next best option was a neck from Tier 12, and that was way behind on stats.

    However, under no circumstances should a mage or warlock ever roll for any spirit gear. That is entirely different, given that spirit is useless for mage and warlock.
    Last edited by mmocc2eb32b347; 2012-10-11 at 02:30 PM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinze View Post
    I'm able to need on mail and leather gear as a shadowpriest, something's seriously off with the current loot system.
    That is an absolute lie.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edison View Post
    Well think about it this way, if you level your Paladin as protection 85-90 you're only gonna have prot gear on 90. How are you ever going to reroll if you don't have any gear to play as healer/Retri and can't need on holy/retri gear as the specc you're currently playing. Sure I do hate ninjas to, I rage hard when they take my shit. But I do understand why a healer/tank can roll for a tank/healer item.
    I'm a windwalker monk, have never done a heroic as a healer, but my mistweaver off-spec gear is ilvl 459 through greed rolls.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 03:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jayishere View Post
    That is an absolute lie.
    I've seen it happen personally, a mage needed on a plate helm, I'm assuming it's a bug but it's not a lie.

  10. #110
    Dreadlord
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    Shadow priests are excluded because there is actually cloth gear with hit on it (mages and warlocks) so if they choose to be 'nice' and not roll on what they consider to be healer gear then it is a viable option. There is no caster mail/leather with hit anymore so our only gear choice is spirit.

    Classes that are remarkably different (boomkin/resto going feral/guardian) are screwed for "run the dungeon in the spec you want loot in" unless you buy a set of pvp gear and then people will cry about you wearing pvp gear.

    Everyone needs to stop being selfish assholes and realize that the loot they want that HAS NOT EVEN DROPPED YET is not 'their loot' anymore than it is the loot of the healer rolling on dps gear. You are not entitled to win something the first time it drops, or even the second time.
    Quote from: Thallidomaniac on March 28, 2010, 05:56:24 am
    Our characters are wearing the same pair of underwear, since like, Level 1. Damn that's unsanitary as hell.

  11. #111
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post
    Everyone needs to stop being selfish assholes and realize that the loot they want that HAS NOT EVEN DROPPED YET is not 'their loot' anymore than it is the loot of the healer rolling on dps gear. You are not entitled to win something the first time it drops, or even the second time.
    I fully agree to the bold part.
    Everyone needs to stop being selfish assholes and realize that (clearly defined as such) tank items should go to the tank, because he is in the dungeon tanking. Same for the healers and the DDs.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post

    Everyone needs to stop being selfish assholes and realize that the loot they want that HAS NOT EVEN DROPPED YET is not 'their loot' anymore than it is the loot of the healer rolling on dps gear. You are not entitled to win something the first time it drops, or even the second time.
    This.

    There is a reason why we roll on things in the first place. Pressing the need button is not an assurance that it should be yours. If you get it or not, it's RNG and that's it.

    If you don't like it, then queue with guildies only.

    Out of curiosity Parkerlynne, would you choose gear with hit/mastery or hit/crit instead of haste/spirit? Either option is viable but if you knew you could do more dps in the spirit gear, would you pass it up?

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    See, that is just your opinion. Your personal rule that you can't roll need on items you can't use is the same as someone elses rule that MS > OS.

    Me needing on plate would also not be ninjaing according to some people because Blizzards system lets me able to need on it.
    Being able to need on the wrong armor type is a bug by Blizzard, that shouldn't be possible. If that bug wasn't present, you could only roll need on gear you can use, which is then fair game.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWarrior View Post
    As long as the majority of the group is with me, I am right.
    A lynch mob is a democracy.

    And on topic, I only need on offspec if the mainspec (if there is one) doesn't need it.

  15. #115
    Pandaren Monk Edison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    Buy greens or collect the stuff from quests. Its not uncommon to find gear for your off spec while questing.

    Also Ret would do fine in 5mans/heroics in Prot gear... providing the player doesn't suck.
    Say i'm fully raid geared. Not a chance in hell i'd go get green low ilvl quest gear for my offspecc, i'd run HC's and need for the stuff I need for my OS.
    I thought I did, but apparently I don't

    If you die you die but if you don't die you still die.

  16. #116
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiglet View Post
    This.

    There is a reason why we roll on things in the first place. Pressing the need button is not an assurance that it should be yours. If you get it or not, it's RNG and that's it.

    If you don't like it, then queue with guildies only.

    Out of curiosity Parkerlynne, would you choose gear with hit/mastery or hit/crit instead of haste/spirit? Either option is viable but if you knew you could do more dps in the spirit gear, would you pass it up?
    If hit gear existed for me, I'd take hit/crit after hitting my breakpoint with haste. Even after an entire xpac of spirit=hit I still feel strange rolling on it but there are no alternatives at all.
    Quote from: Thallidomaniac on March 28, 2010, 05:56:24 am
    Our characters are wearing the same pair of underwear, since like, Level 1. Damn that's unsanitary as hell.

  17. #117
    Consider that healers can still cast spells and do damage. It's an integral part of the Monk isn't it?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post
    If hit gear existed for me, I'd take hit/crit after hitting my breakpoint with haste. Even after an entire xpac of spirit=hit I still feel strange rolling on it but there are no alternatives at all.
    I also feel bad rolling on spirit gear (and if I get a whisper from a healer who desperately needs the gear i'll pass it on), but then I remember the healers that won gloves of liquid smoke on spine, etc. It works both ways really. No system is perfect.

    I used to play a Blood DK in Cata too, don't even get me started on trying to explain why a 2 hander is a tanking weapon....

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by jayishere View Post
    That is an absolute lie.
    No its not. I was able to select 'need' on a mail agility item multiple times today as a rogue. Of course, I didn't, because I can't even wear it, but just thought it was super strange that I even have the option to need on it. Definitely a bug that needs fixing.

  20. #120
    You tell the healers and tanks that they can't roll for their dps offspecs, and you can watch your dungeon queues pass the 1-hour mark.

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