Ask Anything! MSV 10man Normal + Heroic!

[Deleted]

As for what melee to put where, in general something that can slow/control adds is always nice. If you have enough DPS on adds to keep one melee on the boss fulltime is something you'll have to find out.

You will need a really really good dps to do that.
In the current state a very few groups can actually do that.

[Odina]

Anyone else have the issue when they are the reversal tank on FENG that it takes 2 full casts to steal spear in P2? It's driving me batshit crazy becuase I see the debuff on our tank emidiatly start the reversal chanel... it casts for the entire time.... nothing recast...chanel the entire time again ..then I get the spear to reflect on the boss. Kept happening and was driving me crazy as its a huge waste of time to have to fully chanel X 2 each time!

WOL from the fight it was happening on : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=4265&e=4729


[22:08:43.798] Odina casts Shroud of Reversal on Vailness
[22:08:43.855] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 6825
[22:08:43.989] Vailness gains Shroud of Reversal from Odina
[22:08:46.868] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 6825
[22:08:47.585] Odina's Shattering Throw fades from Feng the Accursed
[22:08:48.447] Odina casts Shroud of Reversal on Vailness[22:08:48.811] Vailness's Shroud of Reversal is refreshed by Odina
[22:08:49.864] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 6825
[22:08:52.631] Odina gains Sword and Board from Odina
[22:08:52.637] Odina casts Devastate on Feng the Accursed
[22:08:52.823] Feng the Accursed's Deep Wounds is refreshed by Odina
[22:08:52.823] Odina Devastate Feng the Accursed 22320
[22:08:52.870] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 6266
[22:08:53.631] Odina's Shroud of Reversal fades from Vailness
[22:08:54.049] Odina's Shroud of Reversal fades from Odina
[22:08:54.053] Odina afflicted by Reversal: Flaming Spear from Odina


As you cna see in red I cast shroud for 5 seconds and dont do anything for 5 secs... then have to recast it as I didn't get anything from the first cast...but the second time I get it.

Then it happened again while there was a spear dmg debuff rolling on him...
[22:09:44.999] Odina casts Shroud of Reversal on Vailness
[22:09:45.082] Vailness gains Shroud of Reversal from Odina
[22:09:45.281] Odina Reversal: Flaming Spear Feng the Accursed 42088
[22:09:46.871] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 8195
[22:09:47.300] Odina Reversal: Flaming Spear Feng the Accursed 42088
[22:09:47.300] Odina's Reversal: Flaming Spear fades from Feng the Accursed
[22:09:48.355] Odina's Shield Block fades from Odina
[22:09:48.842] Odina casts Shroud of Reversal on Vailness
[22:09:49.114] Vailness's Shroud of Reversal is refreshed by Odina
[22:09:49.870] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 8195
[22:09:51.117] Odina's Shroud of Reversal fades from Vailness
[22:09:51.522] Odina's Shroud of Reversal fades from Odina
[22:09:51.522] Odina afflicted by Reversal: Flaming Spear from Odina
[22:09:52.870] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 8195
[22:09:53.752] Odina's Reversal: Flaming Spear fades from Odina
[22:09:53.752] Odina gains Shroud of Reversal from Odina
[22:09:53.753] Odina casts Reversal: Flaming Spear on Feng the Accursed

Anyone have any thoughs as to why this is happening?

[Kaj392]

Noticed that too last night that it won't grab the spear dot right away... Everything else went fine but wanting the extra dmg didn't seem to come on the Fire...

[Satori]

For Will, just leave the one melee that can dance on boss and tell the rest to focus adds and only dps boss during gas phases (since they get the extra damage buff and no adds are spawning). Tank damage is very high (upwards of 70k) on 10 man, due to tanks having to dodge combos (or the sunder debuff will get them killed) and the ridiculous amount of damage they take.

Make sure they have major cds for gas phases (shield wall stuff) and use minor cds between combos.

The enrage timer is really long (13 min) so there's no pressure for dps and it's easier to just control the fight and make sure you get the kill.

[blackpink]

Our group got 6/6 this week. We are planning to get some heroics down next week then go into the new raids when they come out the following week. Which heroic fight would be ideal for us? Seeing the combo for stone guards next week doesn't look too ideal we were thinking of skipping it and going ahead to feng. What are the dps requirements for garajal? Logs from our normal clear: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cy8etzc4mzt0kbuh/

[Raxxed]

Raxxed, I just wanted to say thanks for your advice on stealing epicenter rather than stunning him. We were planning on stuns until I read your thoughts. Took us a little over 20 attempts to learn arcane + shield phases and once we did it was a kill. Epicenters are absolutely healable on heroic.

Thanks again!

You're welcome!

---------- Post added 2012-10-22 at 04:48 AM ----------

1 shot elegon this week, threw some attempts at will. We're running 3 melee. Any tips? It just feels like melee are a complete hindrance on the raid as failing the dance once = healer mana wasted and range would of already been more efficient. i'm really thinking 3 melee is going to make it extremely hard for no reason because if we don't play perfect a range would of already outplayed us :/

Our first kill was with 2 melee, we sat one full time on the adds.

I guess you just have to hope your melee are exceptional

---------- Post added 2012-10-22 at 04:50 AM ----------

Anyone else have the issue when they are the reversal tank on FENG that it takes 2 full casts to steal spear in P2? It's driving me batshit crazy becuase I see the debuff on our tank emidiatly start the reversal chanel... it casts for the entire time.... nothing recast...chanel the entire time again ..then I get the spear to reflect on the boss. Kept happening and was driving me crazy as its a huge waste of time to have to fully chanel X 2 each time!

WOL from the fight it was happening on : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=4265&e=4729


[22:08:43.798] Odina casts Shroud of Reversal on Vailness
[22:08:43.855] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 6825
[22:08:43.989] Vailness gains Shroud of Reversal from Odina
[22:08:46.868] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 6825
[22:08:47.585] Odina's Shattering Throw fades from Feng the Accursed
[22:08:48.447] Odina casts Shroud of Reversal on Vailness[22:08:48.811] Vailness's Shroud of Reversal is refreshed by Odina
[22:08:49.864] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 6825
[22:08:52.631] Odina gains Sword and Board from Odina
[22:08:52.637] Odina casts Devastate on Feng the Accursed
[22:08:52.823] Feng the Accursed's Deep Wounds is refreshed by Odina
[22:08:52.823] Odina Devastate Feng the Accursed 22320
[22:08:52.870] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 6266
[22:08:53.631] Odina's Shroud of Reversal fades from Vailness
[22:08:54.049] Odina's Shroud of Reversal fades from Odina
[22:08:54.053] Odina afflicted by Reversal: Flaming Spear from Odina


As you cna see in red I cast shroud for 5 seconds and dont do anything for 5 secs... then have to recast it as I didn't get anything from the first cast...but the second time I get it.

Then it happened again while there was a spear dmg debuff rolling on him...
[22:09:44.999] Odina casts Shroud of Reversal on Vailness
[22:09:45.082] Vailness gains Shroud of Reversal from Odina
[22:09:45.281] Odina Reversal: Flaming Spear Feng the Accursed 42088
[22:09:46.871] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 8195
[22:09:47.300] Odina Reversal: Flaming Spear Feng the Accursed 42088
[22:09:47.300] Odina's Reversal: Flaming Spear fades from Feng the Accursed
[22:09:48.355] Odina's Shield Block fades from Odina
[22:09:48.842] Odina casts Shroud of Reversal on Vailness
[22:09:49.114] Vailness's Shroud of Reversal is refreshed by Odina
[22:09:49.870] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 8195
[22:09:51.117] Odina's Shroud of Reversal fades from Vailness
[22:09:51.522] Odina's Shroud of Reversal fades from Odina
[22:09:51.522] Odina afflicted by Reversal: Flaming Spear from Odina
[22:09:52.870] Odina Deep Wounds Feng the Accursed 8195
[22:09:53.752] Odina's Reversal: Flaming Spear fades from Odina
[22:09:53.752] Odina gains Shroud of Reversal from Odina
[22:09:53.753] Odina casts Reversal: Flaming Spear on Feng the Accursed

Anyone have any thoughs as to why this is happening?

The cast itself steals the NEXT ability to hit the tank.
The DoT from the spear isn't an ability, applying another stack of the DoT is.

---------- Post added 2012-10-22 at 04:51 AM ----------

Our group got 6/6 this week. We are planning to get some heroics down next week then go into the new raids when they come out the following week. Which heroic fight would be ideal for us? Seeing the combo for stone guards next week doesn't look too ideal we were thinking of skipping it and going ahead to feng. What are the dps requirements for garajal? Logs from our normal clear: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cy8etzc4mzt0kbuh/

Stone guards > Feng

After that, it's totally dependent on your raid members capabilities.

[Sonnillon]

My raid team has finally bested the 2 first bosses. Now we are facing Gara'jal The Spiritbinder. We are melee heavy group. Having 1-2 RPDS and the rest melee (including one of the tanks with OS, since we have 3 tanks).

How do you tackle the spirit world and sending people into the Spirit Realm to deal with the spirits there? We had one group going in, if they didn't get the Vodoo Doll, if they did, someone else went in instead. We ended up mainly dieing to the damage from the Spirit world.

How do you suggest we team people up? Should we send our highest DPS in most of the time or not? I unsdestand that spirit realm buffs the DPS for some second. How to handle the healing? I'm bit afraid that 2 healers is not enough in our case. We tried 2 healing, but it was just too much.

Tanks: 2x prot pally, 1x guardian (me). All tanks have DPS os (2x retri, 1 feral), we do rotate who tanks and who DPS. Should both paladins tank or is druid a better choice as one tank?
Healers: Resto Druid, Holy pala, Resto Shaman. We also have a disc priest and another resto shaman, although these guys are not that regularly online so, can't really rely on them.
DPS: Affi Lock (Demo OS), fury warrior (arms os), assassination rogue (os combat), balance druid, another lock (not that reliable for attendance)

Lock and the Rogue are the best DPS we have.

[Deleted]

My raid team has finally bested the 2 first bosses. Now we are facing Gara'jal The Spiritbinder. We are melee heavy group. Having 1-2 RPDS and the rest melee (including one of the tanks with OS, since we have 3 tanks).

How do you tackle the spirit world and sending people into the Spirit Realm to deal with the spirits there? We had one group going in, if they didn't get the Vodoo Doll, if they did, someone else went in instead. We ended up mainly dieing to the damage from the Spirit world.

How do you suggest we team people up? Should we send our highest DPS in most of the time or not? I unsdestand that spirit realm buffs the DPS for some second. How to handle the healing? I'm bit afraid that 2 healers is not enough in our case. We tried 2 healing, but it was just too much.

Tanks: 2x prot pally, 1x guardian (me). All tanks have DPS os (2x retri, 1 feral), we do rotate who tanks and who DPS. Should both paladins tank or is druid a better choice as one tank?
Healers: Resto Druid, Holy pala, Resto Shaman. We also have a disc priest and another resto shaman, although these guys are not that regularly online so, can't really rely on them.
DPS: Affi Lock (Demo OS), fury warrior (arms os), assassination rogue (os combat), balance druid, another lock (not that reliable for attendance)

Lock and the Rogue are the best DPS we have.

Hope its ok Il answer this one :P

Paladin/War tanks are the best choice, because of the way Vodoo Doll works. Block is king here.

The best to handle spirit realm, is dotters in my opnion. We solve it by sending myself (Aff lock) in, with boomkin as backup. Just me+a healer. When I start not being able to keep up with the spawn, we have our boomkin go in with me, so its Aff Lock, Boomkin, healer.

We are much more ranged based than you, (1 melee, 4 ranged), so its easier for us. Backups are Lock backups>Boomkin>Ele shaman>Hunter, which means that if both Lock+Boomkin have Vodoo Doll, Hunter+Ele shaman enters. Some people rotate healers, but always tend to send the same healer in. I dunno, our healers weren't going oom.

I will note tho, that with that many melees you are going to have trouble. anything above 3 ranged/2 melees is a nono for me. Ideal (In my opnion), is 4 ranged 1 melee, 1 tank with melee OS, and 1 healer with ranged OS. (Or the other way around). But thats just me

[Sonnillon]

Paladin/War tanks are the best choice, because of the way Vodoo Doll works. Block is king here.

Ok. Both Paladin tank then. Should they reforge their gear in some way to get more block? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lador/advanced and http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...edina/advanced would be the both paladins tanking then.

The best to handle spirit realm, is dotters in my opnion. We solve it by sending myself (Aff lock) in, with boomkin as backup. Just me+a healer. When I start not being able to keep up with the spawn, we have our boomkin go in with me, so its Aff Lock, Boomkin, healer.

In our case it would be best to send the boomkin in then together with the lock most of the time. As the lock can do nice DPS, though probably not as much he should due to crap buff coverage, while the boomkin on the other hand...

Although wouldn't it be a better idea to send in every DPS at least once or twice for them to get the damage bonus as well, even if the Lock and Boomkin don't have the debuff.

And as for our roster, well... Horde 1:10 Alliance is the server ratio, no one really is interested in joining this miserable realm. And due to the fact that most raiders are online in the evening when there is raid, we are not that appealing to those masses that are interesting in people being online most of the time and doing things with guild other than raiding. I just can't bring myself to level my hunter up as DPS, questing is close to impossible w/o finding your own groupie who will chase and kill you over and over again.

[Raxxed]

About fooking time. Heroic elegon bites the dust.

Questions welcome.

[Calz]

About fooking time. Heroic elegon bites the dust.

Questions welcome.

Been watching some kill videos of Elegon heroic, and it doesn't look like anyone takes damage from the energy charges when they die. Is this correct? And does it mean you don't have to reset stacks on heroic between waves? Seems weird to me that they would remove something like that in heroic mode. Maybe I'm missing something in the few videos I've seen.

[Deleted]

About fooking time. Heroic elegon bites the dust.

Questions welcome.

How are you handling cosmic charges? We were doing 7-4 in normal, but are struggling to kill 4 on the first night. Managing to push 2 adds in p1, but then totally screwing it up.

Been watching some kill videos of Elegon heroic, and it doesn't look like anyone takes damage from the energy charges when they die. Is this correct? And does it mean you don't have to reset stacks on heroic between waves? Seems weird to me that they would remove something like that in heroic mode. Maybe I'm missing something in the few videos I've seen.

that's been hotfixed now, and total hp reduced by 15% to compensate

[h3lladvocate]

So, doing H Gara'jal this week and as Heally lead, trying to setup group. Here's what I've got to work with: H Pally, R Druid, R Shaman and me the Priesty priest. So, I guess my question is A. 2, 2.5 or 3 heals? and B. Which heals are best?

[damz2969]

About fooking time. Heroic elegon bites the dust.

Questions welcome.

1. What was the most common mistakes / difficulties causing most of the wipes?
2. Not sure if you progressed on him before the hotfix change, but if you did, do you think the hotfix make it easier or harder? And how tight was the enrage?
3. Anything else specific you wish you knew before you started progressing on it?

[Raxxed]

How are you handling cosmic charges? We were doing 7-4 in normal, but are struggling to kill 4 on the first night. Managing to push 2 adds in p1, but then totally screwing it up.



that's been hotfixed now, and total hp reduced by 15% to compensate

In terms of stacks, 6-5

---------- Post added 2012-10-23 at 02:31 AM ----------

1. What was the most common mistakes / difficulties causing most of the wipes?
2. Not sure if you progressed on him before the hotfix change, but if you did, do you think the hotfix make it easier or harder? And how tight was the enrage?
3. Anything else specific you wish you knew before you started progressing on it?

Most wipes were caused by lack of stacks (wipe was called) or death to sparks (transitioning from p3-1). We had the ocassional random death from adds taking too long to die, adds exploding on platform, tank deaths.

Probably all up it would be

50% not enough stacks
30% sparks
18% random
2% didn't manage cds well enough and wiped at 0.7%.. twice.


We progressed both pre and post hotfix, it was astonishingly easier post hofix. We killed him with about 50 seconds on enrage and everyone alive and near full hp.


This is one of those fights where 1 bad thing cascades down and just screws you.

[Freedom]

Just two quick questions, if normal Elegon is giving your guild trouble would H Stoneguard kick our ass? See next question for how this is possible.

And if I killed normal Will by myself but have not killed Elegon yet I can still activate heroic modes, correct? I found a partial guild run on Will tonight and downed it after 5 total attempts. Someone was telling me I cannot and I don't think they are right.

[Raxxed]

Just two quick questions, if normal Elegon is giving your guild trouble would H Stoneguard kick our ass? See next question for how this is possible.

And if I killed normal Will by myself but have not killed Elegon yet I can still activate heroic modes, correct? I found a partial guild run on Will tonight and downed it after 5 total attempts. Someone was telling me I cannot and I don't think they are right.

Our warlock couldn't zone into our heroic lockout having killed Will, but not some other bosses, so I believe you need 6/6N.

H Stoneguard is extremely reliant on two things

1) How well you raid listens and how fast they can react
2) The boss composition.

Elegon is by far easier, though.

[damz2969]

Another few questions Raxxed:

1) What setup did you use for Elegon?
2) Any specific reasons for these classes/specs?
3) Any classes/specs you wish you had instead?

[Deleted]

Is Elegon hc harder than garajal hc in terms of gear needed? We are stuck in garajal because with 2 healers we just die and with 3 healers (one of them disc) we can't kill him before enrage

[Deleted]

One nice thing to know about elegon is that you CAN soak with immunities. Cloak seems to give you a stun, whilst bubble/iceblock doesn't. (seems mage invis doesn't stun you either)

---------- Post added 2012-10-23 at 02:18 PM ----------

In terms of stacks, 6-5

So to clarify, you were killing 5 sets and then 4 sets of adds? Were you using pots on the sparks, or on the burn phase?