U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[Kasierith]

DEA is under DOJ which is part of the executive branch. FDA isn't doing the raids.

I thought it was the FDA that supplied the legislative/administrative aspects and the DEA enforced it. Whether or not I was wrong in this regard really doesn't change my point at all, so don't try to sidetrack from the original erroneous point of view. Obama is not in direct control of the DEA (or FDA) and their actions are delegated by Congress and federal law, not the whims of the executive branch. Separation of powers, read about it.

Obama 2008: "I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws [on medical marijuana]"
But then:
(from HuffPo)

I suppose you have in your mind Obama personally bursting into a pharmacy, waving an uzi and demanding that the pharmacists hand over their stash for the federal government. This is not the case. President Obama put it better than I did, so I'll provide his direct quote on the matter.

I can't nullify congressional law. I can't ask the Justice Department to say, 'Ignore completely a federal law that's on the books.' What I can say is, 'Use your prosecutorial discretion and properly prioritize your resources to go after things that are really doing folks damage.' As a consequence, there haven't been prosecutions of users of marijuana for medical purposes.

The establishment of marijuana, even medical marijuana, as a class 1 substance is a federal law. Obama does not have the authority to denounce such a law, which is clearly what you expect him to do. As for the rising number of raids, well, I could provide what I know but Felya seems more informed on this specific subtopic than I am, so refer to his post.

But, that ignores that there are far more dispensaries out now than any time from when the law started. Saying he closed down more dispensaries, is also a reflection of how many and how open they are. There are far more dispensaries now, than ever before. They didn't have this many pot stores when the shit was legal. I live in Seattle and for the last couple of years, we have had ads in local news papers for them. We had raids, but ones that seem to only target those that break other ordinance. Raids that don't even hit half of the places that operate in the open. If you think things have gotten worse or even espeacialy worse under Obama, you are ignoring reality.

Funny how he says that always when there's an election. Maybe you now understand why some people might like Gary Johnson above Obama/Romney?

Yes, because attempting to dismantle the war on drugs during his first term is such a viable option. Half of the hostility by the Republican Party has been to keep the country stable but weak enough that 4 years later they can point back and say "this is what happens when a Democrat becomes president." After this election, there won't be a reason for them to be as outright hostile because they won't be facing an incumbent in the next election. Its pretty clear historically that second terms allow a lot more cross-party cooperation, which ultimately will be an absolute necessity in order to do such a massive undertaking.

Also, if you read the article, he's already taking measures; its not just hearsay anymore.


On a side note, why do people continuously attempt to mindlessly infer that Huffington Post is inherently pro-Obama, and therefore anything they say against him must be absolute truth? While they're more liberally based, they're relatively (note, relatively) unbiased in terms of political scope, so touting that its from Huffington Post like this has any special significance really doesn't match up.

[Deadvolcanoes]

No it doesn't really. You could legalize marijuana and make it available in 7/11's as long as you're not a minor without any adverse effects. The drug itself is completely harmless, while the drug trade that results from its illegality is ridiculously harmful.

Yeah I'm strictly talking about medical use here. Pretty much what smelltheglove said^^. Any abuse of medical marijuana will only hurt the movement for full legalization. I want these dispensaries to be following the laws currently in place.

---------- Post added 2012-10-23 at 01:33 PM ----------

The baseline rule is that once something is legal to prescribe for one purpose, it's legal to prescribe for ANY purpose. But that's at the fed level.

Really? That's insanely bizarre.

So you're saying once Codeine is prescribed for pain, it can then also be prescribed for constipation?

[Kasierith]

Really? That's insanely bizarre.

So you're saying once Codeine is prescribed for pain, it can then also be prescribed for constipation?

If the doctor is willing to risk losing his license? Sure. There is a massive amount of oversight of controlled substances, and negligent prescribing is becoming more and more a high area of focus.

[Deleted]

I thought it was the FDA that supplied the legislative/administrative aspects and the DEA enforced it. Whether or not I was wrong in this regard really doesn't change my point at all, so don't try to sidetrack from the original erroneous point of view. Obama is not in direct control of the DEA (or FDA) and their actions are delegated by Congress and federal law, not the whims of the executive branch. Separation of powers, read about it.

The Obama appointed Eric Holder is in charge of the DoJ, and thus, the raids.

The establishment of marijuana, even medical marijuana, as a class 1 substance is a federal law. Obama does not have the authority to denounce such a law, which is clearly what you expect him to do. As for the rising number of raids, well, I could provide what I know but Felya seems more informed on this specific subtopic than I am, so refer to his post.

Felya isn't more informed on it at all, he's attacking some ludicrous strawman again. Yes, Obama needs an exective order to repeal federal drug laws. But the fact is that he said he would not send the DoJ after medical marijuana dispensaries as long as State law says they're legal, yet DoJ was sent after them. And again, this is why some people prefer Gary Johnson over Obama, who quite honestly is just full of shit.

On a side note, why do people continuously attempt to mindlessly infer that Huffington Post is inherently pro-Obama, and therefore anything they say against him must be absolute truth? While they're more liberally based, they're relatively (note, relatively) unbiased in terms of political scope, so touting that its from Huffington Post like this has any special significance really doesn't match up.

There's a lot of ridiculous shit on HuffPo as well.

[Lenonis]

So are folks going to be willing to actually work across the aisle or will they continue to actively try and poison every single bill the other side (be it Dems or Repubs) presents so that everyone stops supporting the bill?

The partisan vitriol isn't going to stop after this election.

Are Republicans going to continue to be unwilling to compromise or will they actually want to improve their image going into the midterm election (where frnakly they are going to get slaughtered if they continue to block everything).

they will continue.

are Republicans going to say their number one priority is to get the White House back in 2016 rather than to represent their constituents?

I think they will do some better PR work on the surface...giving more lip service to bipartisanship or do this bizarro world thing where they say the dems are the ones being obstructionist and unreasonable. However behind closed doors they will continue to determine what the best way to make the dems look bad, regardless of the consequences to the public.

[ptwonline]

Doubt he can give two shits about Fox News. Clearly Republicans do not realize this, but taking up these extreme views is alienating your party. You are running out old white angry men.

Like it or not the Republican party you have now will be dead in 5-10 years. This election is not as close as everyone believes and I think the election results will show that.

People do not understand this, but the Democrats have the Republicans by the balls right now. Taxes will go up on people making 250k a year and Democrats will hold strong in only extending tax cuts for the middle class.

Example from last night: repeating the lie about Iran saying they will wipe Israel off the map. Why? Because he knows how it will get spun if he doesn't say it that way, and primarily by Fox News et al.

[Catta]

Questions with obvious answers get obvious answers.

Its not an answer to anything. If someone asks why X country doesnt have liberal gun laws like that of the US you will usually hear an argument why instead of "BECAUSE WE ARE NOT THE USA!"

[Reeve]

To be fair, you can go to a doctor in California, tell them you have a headache, and get prescribed medical marijuana. That's an abuse of the system, imo. I'm not sure what the law actually states, or what medical conditions are covered, or even why the Feds are going after dispensaries and not doctors, so I could be off point here, but I'm completely fine with the government shutting down dispensaries that are performing illegal activities.

Connecticut just adopted medical marijuana, and our policies are much more strict, as they should be. It needs to be a highly regulated business in order for it to succeed.

What's wrong with a person getting a doctor's prescription for Marijuana for headaches?

[Kasierith]

The Obama appointed Eric Holder is in charge of the DoJ, and thus, the raids.

And this matters... why? Obama may have appointed Holder, but its not like some mind control mechanism. Holder is his own agent, and once elected attempting to hold Obama personally responsible is immensely facetious. You could say that he was a bad choice, but anything more is highly irrational.

Felya isn't more informed on it at all, he's attacking some ludicrous strawman again. Yes, Obama needs an exective order to repeal federal drug laws. But the fact is that he said he would not send the DoJ after medical marijuana dispensaries as long as State law says they're legal, yet DoJ was sent after them. And again, this is why some people prefer Gary Johnson over Obama, who quite honestly is just full of shit.

Good job reading what he wrote!

[Grizzly Willy]

Its not an answer to anything. If someone asks why X country doesnt have liberal gun laws like that of the US you will usually hear an argument why instead of "BECAUSE WE ARE NOT THE USA!"

Then you're missing the point, probably because I'm not being clear enough. It's because of cultural differences. American values and Denmarkian values probably aren't the same. I'm not saying that America is better because we're not like Denmark, I'm just stating that we're different.

[Deleted]

Then you're missing the point, probably because I'm not being clear enough. It's because of cultural differences. American values and Denmarkian values probably aren't the same. I'm not saying that America is better because we're not like Denmark, I'm just stating that we're different.

And more importantly, American voters are much more knowledgeable of American issues and thus the qualities of the two candidates.

Most people in Denmark are operating on very limited knowledge and do not even know where the candidates really stand. To them it's an educated liberal black president vs. white conservative rich greedy capitalist. They don't know much beyond that.

[Deadvolcanoes]

What's wrong with a person getting a doctor's prescription for Marijuana for headaches?

Doctors work in the medical field, which is based on science. If there are peer reviewed studies and research that conclusively say marijuana can help to cure migraines, or lessen the intensity of headaches, then I'm all for it. Also, how do you medically prove that someone has a headache?

Personally, I think medical marijuana should be used for things like parkinsons, aids, cancer, MS, and other debilitating diseases, where there are proven benefits.

[Waaldo]

What's wrong with a person getting a doctor's prescription for Marijuana for headaches?

Because you can't test for a headache. So if you can lie about having a headache and get legal marijuana, there is a problem.

[Lenonis]

Because you can't test for a headache. So if you can lie about having a headache and get legal marijuana, there is a problem.

Not to mention headaches can have a bazillion reasons for happening, so just prescribing pot and sending them home is very irresponsible.

[Deleted]

Who goes to see a doctor for headache anyway? Take some painkillers off the shelf and you're done.

[Wells]

Who goes to see a doctor for headache anyway? Take some painkillers off the shelf and you're done.

Depends on the headache. If you're having persistent headaches you probably should see a doctor.

[Puremallace]

Example from last night: repeating the lie about Iran saying they will wipe Israel off the map. Why? Because he knows how it will get spun if he doesn't say it that way, and primarily by Fox News et al.

He is how this works. Netanyahu believes Iran is going to strike anyday now. He has been saying this easily for 8+ years now. Netanyahu is sort of like Bush was back in 2044 "better keep me around in case we get attacked again. It could happen at any moment"

In my opinion we should have left Iraq there with Saddam Hussein. Saddam Kept Iran in check because they were mortal enemies. If Saddam did have WMD's he would have used them against Iran lol

[Grizzly Willy]

Wait, we're getting another Bush in 2044?

Yes I know that was a typo.

[Masark]

Who goes to see a doctor for headache anyway? Take some painkillers off the shelf and you're done.

You clearly do not know anyone who gets migraines.

Because you can't test for a headache. So if you can lie about having a headache and get legal marijuana, there is a problem.

The problem appears to be concealed in an exceedingly clever manner as I am unable to locate it.

[Deadvolcanoes]

Wait, we're getting another Bush in 2044?

Yes I know that was a typo.

Considering there will be a presidential election in 2044, and that theres currently a large group of young Bushes, its actually scary how accurate this might end up being...