Intervening Touch of Death

[JayJay09]

But how often will that happen? Cant see this happening too often, at least not often enough to warrent a nerf. I quick fix is to change it to do damage equal to the monks HP when the target is below 10% (like it does to PVE mobs). This will still kill anyone below 10% but wont kill the warrior (will rape him for 80-90% of his/her HP, but thats better than death)

It won't happen often, no. But the fact that no mitigation works against it, is stupid. If I play for example a warrior and defstance and shieldwall are active, I will survive an execute with 10% hp. Or let's add pain sup on top of that. The warrior would survive an execute or another high dmg finisher. But the monk's touch would kill him. I remember a lot of close fights from the past, were I or my mates survived thanks to damn close calls.

And this video also showed that once the ability is used, the target will die. The spell didn't make a distinction between the warlocks and warriors health.

All I am saying is, that this ability might cause quite some turmoil in the future because it simply kills and is impossible to avoid unless you manage to stay above 10% hp for the whole time.

[Mican17]

I've watched some of Zybak's streams last week..he sucked.

[Gandrake]

But how often will that happen?

How often does a Warrior get 5 Stacks of Taste for Blood?

I rest my case.

[Moxal]

Personally, I'd like to see it be made into a standard (non-spammable; with a cooldown simular to the hunter one or SW: D) execute.

[Deleted]

It won't happen often, no. But the fact that no mitigation works against it, is stupid.

It's a niche. Of one spec of one class (that isn't even that good currently in arena or any other sort of competitive pvp setting) of a game that definitely needs more different and new mechanics. It adds a new dynamic to arenas when you fight against that spec: if one of the teammates gets to 10% when the monk is near them, you lose. And how many times does that happen, really, seeing how easily controlled are ww monks in general and with current healing strength?

It's also the only thing they bring to the table, currently. I'm sure this ability would have been overpowered if it was on a warrior, or rogue, maybe. On monks? Nah.

[Buxton McGraff]

The tooltip says it can not be used against players. So I don't know how this was even possible? I've only been able to use it on mobs, not players.

[Deleted]

The tooltip says it can not be used against players. So I don't know how this was even possible? I've only been able to use it on mobs, not players.

PvP 4 set bonus, has already been mentioned.

Execute is pretty much as guaranteed kill as Touch of Death, and that works at 20%. In fact i can count the times on 1 hand that a target has survived my warrior's execute if i get to use it.

[Veliane]

I can see both sides of it, but this needs a change.

They may be right, if a Monk has you at 10% maybe you deserve to die.

But simply put, we don't PvP with just Monks in WoW.
The interaction of that ability with one player might work in paper, but in the mix it's gamebreaking.

1st - It's not compelling gameplay, many classes can dispatch enemies into that threshold while keeping the team busy, and many cooldowns could have kept that player alive.
Disregard Cooldowns, Acquire Killing Blows.

2nd - Who knows how many other bugs are yet to be found with this ability?
Hand of True Sacrifice. GG!

3rd - In the end, that stubbornness will snowball into an avalanche of nerfs at the wrong time and in the wrong places.
Intervene ignoring abilities, renamed to High-Speed Leap into Friendly Corpse.
(Did I mention Disregard Cooldowns, Acquire Killing Blows?)


Truth is, Instant death is something that belongs to a Boss as an Enrage Mechanic.
Being able to turn the game around by grasping on everything that is at hand, even luck itself, is the very soul and essence of PvP.

[Freia]

If your (teammate) stupid enough to Intervene someone with low health versus a Monk then you deserve to die. I call this a mistake by the warrior. Besides, Touch of Death requires the target to be at 10% (not 20% like execute) AND it has a 3 minute cooldown glyphed (unglyphed it requires 3 Chi).

Also, 10% of a decent geared player is around the 35k. I don't know how much Execute for but I'm pretty sure if a warrior used Execute on you while you're at 10% you'll probably die too.

Execute a rogue who procs cheat death. Touch of death a rogue a rogue who procs cheat death. Touch of death would get the kill when an execute won't. It goes past all mitigation and should be adjusted. And it killing an intervening warrior is obviously a bug. Saying that is an L2P issue on the warrior's part is completely stupid.

[RaoBurning]

[...]Truth is, Instant death is something that belongs to a Boss as an Enrage Mechanic.
Being able to turn the game around by grasping on everything that is at hand, even luck itself, is the very soul and essence of PvP.

I'd say not catching a Monk when you have low health and s/he has 3 chi (or the glyph) is the epitome of pushing your luck.

And, come on now guys, this was pretty funny. People complain about homogenization and then complain when a unique ability has hilarious interactions with another class's skill. Maybe Blizz could tweak the coding behind ToD so this doesn't happen again, but I sure hope they don't. I'd hate for stuff this funny to never happen again. Or remove the 4 piece bonus, I guess. Kinda boring though.

I don't know much about PVP, other than I suck at it, but I do know quality humor when I see it.

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 04:45 PM ----------

Execute a rogue who procs cheat death. Touch of death a rogue a rogue who procs cheat death. Touch of death would get the kill when an execute won't. It goes past all mitigation and should be adjusted. And it killing an intervening warrior is obviously a bug. Saying that is an L2P issue on the warrior's part is completely stupid.

It's not really a bug, I don't think. Being killed by an insta-kill ability seems to be working as intended. The health requirement for ToD means it couldn't have been cast on the warrior, but it wasn't, now was it? If said warrior intervened an Execute and soaked it nobody would be surprised, even if he had full health.

[Veliane]

Execute is pretty much as guaranteed kill as Touch of Death, and that works at 20%.

20% = 72k ish

Execute a target with Hand of Sacrifice and Sacred Shield. Does it die?

Execute a target with Sacrificial Pact and Intervene. Does it die?

Execute a target with Cheat Death. Does it die?

Execute a target with PW:S and Pain Supression. Does it die?

Execute a target with Dispersion, I can keep going all day with just about any class.


Now lower the bar by 10% health, have ALL of these abilities combined and try Touch of Death. R.I.P

Let me know when you see a problem.

[zorkuus]

There are some hiccups with it.

I have seen another way that it has worked on players too.

Monk Class is swimming in bugs. This is not the only thing that is working in an unintended way.

The "hiccup" is called the 4pt PvP set bonus.

[Freia]

It's not really a bug, I don't think. Being killed by an insta-kill ability seems to be working as intended. The health requirement for ToD means it couldn't have been cast on the warrior, but it wasn't, now was it? If said warrior intervened an Execute and soaked it nobody would be surprised, even if he had full health.

Its a definitely a bug. Most likely blizzard didn't think about it, not the first time. On players it is only supposed to be an instant death on 10% or lower, the warrior wasn't 10% or lower. Anyone with any common sense can see it isn't intended. He was supposed to soak the damage that was on the lock. So it should have only been the damage the lock would have taken.

[Deleted]

It's not the 30-40k damage, it's just the fact that A LOT of people can survive off 10% hp or less, just because someone is dangerously low doesn't mean you'll score a kill. Monks having a 100% kill chance is pretty stupid.

I expect this to be nerfed.

It's not the point if they were about to lose or not - which they weren't if that guy wasn't one shot.

Read again, it is the point. He was talking about intervene and touch of death which imo is working as intended, the thing is touch of death shouldn't exist and that's another matter.

[the0o]

How often does a Warrior get 5 Stacks of Taste for Blood?

I rest my case.

this :

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=56638/taste-for-blood

Taste for Blood
Your Mortal Strike also enables the use of Overpower.

In addition, Overpower hits have a 30% chance to enable the use of an additional Overpower and increase the damage of your next Heroic Strike or Cleave within 15 sec by 100%. This effect stacks up to 5 times.


Sorry, but i dont play a warrior so forgive me if i misunderstand the ability, so TOB gives the warrior 2 chances to use :

Overpower
Melee Range
Instant
Requires Melee Weapon
Instantly overpower the enemy causing 120% weapon damage. Cannot be blocked, dodged or parried. Overpower has a 60% increased chance to be a critical strike.

Only usable after the target dodges.

So with 5 stack you can get anywhere from 5 - 10 Overpowers off?

I dont understand what this has to do with TOD other than both having a very remote chance of happening.

[asb]

So with 5 stack you can get anywhere from 5 - 10 Overpowers off?

I dont understand what this has to do with TOD other than both having a very remote chance of happening.

In a sense, but they won't usually proc back-to-back like that. The main thing about TFB is the increased damage on heroic strike. The once in a blue moon it actually stacks to five, you can use an instant ability off the GCD that hits for more than half a healthpool on its own. The point seemed to be that because of this rare but imbalanced RNG mechanic, it's fine for a warrior to also occasionally drop dead from touch of death in an unintended way.

[the0o]

In a sense, but they won't usually proc back-to-back like that. The main thing about TFB is the increased damage on heroic strike. The once in a blue moon it actually stacks to five, you can use an instant ability off the GCD that hits for more than half a healthpool on its own. The point seemed to be that because of this rare but imbalanced RNG mechanic, it's fine for a warrior to also occasionally drop dead from touch of death in an unintended way.

Ok makes sense now. Thank you.

[Alltat]

It won't happen often, no. But the fact that no mitigation works against it, is stupid. If I play for example a warrior and defstance and shieldwall are active, I will survive an execute with 10% hp. Or let's add pain sup on top of that. The warrior would survive an execute or another high dmg finisher. But the monk's touch would kill him. I remember a lot of close fights from the past, were I or my mates survived thanks to damn close calls.

So use all that mitigation to avoid dropping to 10% in the first place? If you pop it at 20%, you won't drop down to 10% (or if you do, you'd have died anyway). Most classes with an execute can start spamming that at 20% health; monks need to beat you down to half of that. Against most other classes, that Intervene (or Pain Suppression, etc.) would have been too late, as the warlock would have gone from 19% straight to the graveyard.

Point being that while this particular case probably isn't intended, Touch of Death is hardly overpowered.

[Deleted]

That team would lose the match, anyway. It just happened to be the Warrior with ~62.4% HP, because he intervened a ToD.
That's the only thing odd in this video.

And for anyone else saying Zybak's team won because ToD is OP, a Shadow Word: Death, a Kil Shot, an Execute, a Hammer of Wrath, or any other finisher in game, should have killed that Warlock. He reached near death at 13.797/397k HP, as seen in the standard UI (that's ~3.47% of total HP), when Zybak used the ToD.
Double check it, if you don't believe me.

I don't play Monk, but I don't think there's reason for such uproar.

[Flaks]

It's not as powerful as it sounds.

Touch of Death

PvP (4) Set Bonus: Touch of Death

A spell costing 3 Chi to do 30-40k damage is hardly God Mode.

It and execute do more than a full health bar worth of damage. Which is why a full health warrior intervening the ability will die. This should in no way shape or form be intended.

To the "guy will die anyway" crew. This is literally never the case outside of a warrior or monk training the target. Hell, even a warrior can't get a confirmed kill on a sub 10% target with execute because the opponent/his allies can blow defensive cds gutting execute damage. Touch of Karma will kill 100% of the time sub 10%. This isn't fair at all. People can survive through having only 1% hp left against literally any other class.

They "die anyway" excuse was first used by Blizzard and just goes to show how out of touch the company is with the PvP side of things.

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 05:56 PM ----------

In a sense, but they won't usually proc back-to-back like that. The main thing about TFB is the increased damage on heroic strike. The once in a blue moon it actually stacks to five, you can use an instant ability off the GCD that hits for more than half a healthpool on its own. The point seemed to be that because of this rare but imbalanced RNG mechanic, it's fine for a warrior to also occasionally drop dead from touch of death in an unintended way.

TfB is also a retardedly stupid mechanic in PvP and needs to gtfo. I'm saying this as a warrior. As entertaining as it is flattening a player in 2 seconds flat it isn't fair at all. Blizzard is somehow managing to make PvP more and more unbalanced than ever before.