1. #11741
    Old God conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKing View Post
    The second article points out several other attacks that were far more deadlier that what happened in Libya and they weren't used as political ammunition nearly to the degree that is happening now.
    It the grasping of straws of a doomed campaign and its media backers (aka Fox News and Limbaugh). They have known from the start that Romney had no hope to win the election. We wouldn't even be having a discussion of it being "close" right now if Obama showed up for the first debate and actually called Romney on his constant stream of lies. This is literally their last hope. They need to make the deaths of four people in Benghazi into a 9/11 type failure for Obama. It doesn't matter if their Christ figure Ronald Reagan, who they are so laughably far from at this point, had literally 80 times more people murdered at embassies and consulates in the half year leading up to his election or that he was campaigning the day after an attack killed dozens. This is literally all they have to pin on Obama when it comes to foreign policy. Hell just look at the last debate where nearly every single answer from Romney was "I agree with what the President has done."

  2. #11742
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I have absolutely no idea why. If someone says something that's plainly fucking stupid, I don't care what terms they couch it in. When a man is speaking about a second coming of a human incarnation of God in Missouri, I'm inclined to disregard him as fit to participate in rational conversations going forward.
    Why is that really any more bizarre than anything else other religions say?
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  3. #11743
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Why is that really any more bizarre than anything else other religions say?
    have you been to missouri?

  4. #11744
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Why is that really any more bizarre than anything else other religions say?
    I'd like to answer extensively, but I think I've already pushed the limits of "no religion talk" as far as I can reasonably go. I think mentioning and describing Romney's religion is relevant for the purposes of the election, but it definitely crosses the line to discuss the religion in the abstract of comparing it to others. Sorry if this seems like a weaselly way out, I just don't want to break rules that I've clearly bent farther than is strictly allowed.

    (Also, it's the morning rather than the end of an evening that had a few drinks to it.)

  5. #11745
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    have you been to missouri?
    Haha, yup!

    But honestly, you can't seriously say you think that a deity appearing in Missouri is any weirder than the entire book of Revelations or the ritualistic symbolic cannibalism of your god every Sunday.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  6. #11746
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Haha, yup!

    But honestly, you can't seriously say you think that a deity appearing in Missouri is any weirder than the entire book of Revelations or the ritualistic symbolic cannibalism of your god every Sunday.
    I wouldn't vote for anyone that stated openly that they believe in the literal doctrine of transubstantiation. Once again, it crosses over any line of rationally defensible beliefs. I've considered, quite seriously, whether I find it acceptable to vote for any religious candidates and concluded that it's fine to vote for nominal believers, but that I have to draw a line somewhere.

  7. #11747
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Haha, yup!

    But honestly, you can't seriously say you think that a deity appearing in Missouri is any weirder than the entire book of Revelations or the ritualistic symbolic cannibalism of your god every Sunday.
    meh. the weirdest thing for me is this: new testament basically trumps the old, right? jesus changed the rules and all? forgiveness, judge not, etc? so why do i get to apply the new testament to myself and people i like, but apply old testament to gays, women i decide are sluts, minorities, the poor, etc? that is what i see from the public persona of religion atm. and to me it looks like another example of cognitive dissonance

  8. #11748
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Let's be very clear though - Romney isn't saying that the mysteries of the universe are indecipherable, and that he believes there's a deity behind it, he's referring to the literal appearance of a human who is God in Missouri. Please read the italicized back to yourself. Do it again if still seems just fine. If it still seems fine to you, to each their own. I'm not interested in trusting someone that can talk about such a thing with a straight face with Presidency of the United States though.
    Well, if we're talking prophecy, which we probably shouldn't, God doesn't give two squats if we call it Missouri or Mesopotamia. When he comes he'll come wherever he wants. Imagine how people back in Biblical days took prophets saying that God would appear in Israel? Prophesying the arrival of a specific deity is something that's gone on for ages, and every now-and-then someone makes a bold claim that everyone before them was wrong.

    If you're not religious, then God appearing in Bablyon, Israel or Missouri doesn't make a lick of difference anyway. Why is Missouri so much sillier than Israel?
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  9. #11749
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Why is Missouri so much sillier than Israel?
    Knowing the history of the fraudster that perpetuated Romney's particular variety of crazy does make it seem a bit crazier than some fuzzy handwaving at long gone mystics. Is it categorically any more silly? Perhaps not. But really, the fact that other people believe amazingly stupid things too isn't exactly comforting.

  10. #11750
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    If you're not religious, then God appearing in Bablyon, Israel or Missouri doesn't make a lick of difference anyway. Why is Missouri so much sillier than Israel?
    It doesnt but the only way you can influence the public discourse is by pointing out the ludicrous claim that the majority does not follow even if the majority follows a similar such claim

  11. #11751
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    If you're not religious, then God appearing in Bablyon, Israel or Missouri doesn't make a lick of difference anyway. Why is Missouri so much sillier than Israel?
    Not that it makes any difference to me, but Israel makes more sense than Missouri within the pre-existing story, doesn't it? Inserting Missouri into it is like those terrible fanfics that screws with the established canon in order to faciliate an absurd plot that's brimming with blatant author appeal.

    Oh wait.

  12. #11752
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Not that it makes any difference to me, but Israel makes more sense than Missouri within the pre-existing story, doesn't it?
    It really depends on what is making sense. One has a deity that doesn't aknowledge a good half of the world, while the other shows his adventures in those parts of the world.

  13. #11753
    Old God conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    It really depends on what is making sense. One has a deity that doesn't aknowledge a good half of the world, while the other shows his adventures in those parts of the world.
    If you mean Christianity by the doesn't acknowledge part, its because the Bible is a book written and corrupted by men, then torn apart by men, then pieced together by men while throwing out dozens of other books, hundreds of years before the Americas were discovered. Of course it isn't going to mention this half of the world. It isn't a divine document and anyone who thinks it is is absolutely nutters. It was at least in its origins a historical document and you can't write the history of a world you didn't know was out there. As for the BoM, well good for them if they can take the leap of faith that a guy read the thing off golden tablets only he ever saw.

    Regardless, didn't you guys hear that Mormonism is no longer a cult in the eyes of God's voice on Earth Billy Graham so it is an irrelevant point to even try and discuss anymore. Mormon's are now alright with the top ranking Christian that millions believe has a direct line to God so discussing Romney's religion no longer matters since it now doesn't bother most Christians.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-11-03 at 03:57 PM.

  14. #11754
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    If you mean Christianity by the doesn't acknowledge part, its because the Bible is a book written and corrupted by men, then torn apart by men, then pieced together by men while throwing out dozens of other books, hundreds of years before the Americas were discovered. Of course it isn't going to mention this half of the world. It isn't a divine document and anyone who thinks it is is absolutely nutters. It was at least in its origins a historical document and you can't write the history of a world you didn't know was out there.
    Which make parts that make sense, just a mater of faith driven opinion. They are all the same, it all hinges on the personal view of what makes sense. To me, they equally do not make sense. I cannot point to an instance in either book, where one part makes sense. Thus, I am not religious and believe in every religion equally.

    Although it's silly, I do take pride in comiting a carnal sin when I was 9, because my dad told me to go eat a cracker and I ended up attending communion without being baptized. The church was gorgeous and the ceremony was pretty neat. The cracker was bland...

  15. #11755
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    My religion believes that the universe was created in 2003 (any memories from before that time are artificial) by a teenage girl in Japan. It has since been destroyed and recreated multiple times, but we don't remember it (again, artificial memories). Also, if god ever finds out that she's god, then the world will end.

    Clearly mine is the most rational.

  16. #11756
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    I wonder if Mormonism will go back on Billy Graham's list of cults should Romney lose, or if it's been permanently made "orthodox" by Mitt Romney's candidacy?

    The definition on Graham's website still is quite accurate, and I don't think Mormonism is ever going to retract their claim on additional revealed truth, or stop recruiting Christians.

    Mind you, I don't think there's anything to be gained by one religious group calling another a cult, I just think it strains credulity to think that this recent "declassification" isn't pure politics from Billy Graham's organization (they say the removal of Mormonism from the sample list of cults was them wanting to stay out of a politicized theological discussion) To me, it seems like pragmatic capitulation, which certainly can be a good thing in the real world, but not to a true believer.

    If it does stick, cool. I tend to look upon all belief in revealed truth as equally suspect, but the Mormons have shown a willingness to revise theirs.

  17. #11757
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Regardless, didn't you guys hear that Mormonism is no longer a cult in the eyes of God's voice on Earth Billy Graham so it is an irrelevant point to even try and discuss anymore. Mormon's are now alright with the top ranking Christian that millions believe has a direct line to God so discussing Romney's religion no longer matters since it now doesn't bother most Christians.
    What is strange to me in all that, is Unitarians are listed as a cult. Just strange, completely arbitrary...

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-03 at 04:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post

    If it does stick, cool. I tend to look upon all belief in revealed truth as equally suspect, but the Mormons have shown a willingness to revise theirs.
    The strangest thing about Mormons, is the TV ads that keep trying to sell them being normal. I do not think Mormons are abnormal at all, but with how I feel about advertising, those ads irked me. I think they are normal, but the amount of time you spend telling me you are normal, is kinda strange. But, than again, political season... Appealing to the lowest common denominator... Bla...

    They reminded me of the post 9/11 ads of 'Saudi Arabia, our greatest ally in the middle east'. I didn't question their role, until I saw all the effort to make sure I don't question it.

  18. #11758
    Old God conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    What is strange to me in all that, is Unitarians are listed as a cult. Just strange, completely arbitrary...
    The Unitarians have never given Billy Graham money oops I mean the spotlight for him endorsing their candidate.

  19. #11759
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    My religion believes that the universe was created in 2003 (any memories from before that time are artificial) by a teenage girl in Japan. It has since been destroyed and recreated multiple times, but we don't remember it (again, artificial memories). Also, if god ever finds out that she's god, then the world will end.

    Clearly mine is the most rational.
    Nonsense! The universe was clearly created last Thursday, just as it is recreated every week after the previous universe ends on Wednesday evening.

  20. #11760
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Nonsense! The universe was clearly created last Thursday, just as it is recreated every week after the previous universe ends on Wednesday evening.
    Ridiculous, the universe was created while I was typing this post.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

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