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  1. #221
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jalek View Post
    Kitty is still assuming that his are the only two interpretations and missing what I've been saying that it might mean all gear that isn't Special Event equipment, so that you will be able to use BH and campaign and pvp etc. All I've said the whole time is that there are numerous ways to interpret the words, so don't assume the worst everytime.
    I'm not assuming anything. I'm taking a refined understanding of the English language, something that I studied for entire life and did well enough to receive a degree in. It's actually assumption on your part that the words can mean anything differently than they should. If you wind up being right, which is entirely possible... It would mean that it's another example to add to their growing collection titled, "How Not to Communicate with Your Customers: A Treatise on Inane Language Concepts".

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWGoneBad View Post
    actually the bowcasters both camme with 23 artifact and 1 legendary mods so yea even event gear can have epic stuff in it
    But the mods are not the gear.

    You could put 4 green mods in it and it would still be event gear.
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  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    But the mods are not the gear.

    You could put 4 green mods in it and it would still be event gear.
    Not to mention that they've stated it applies to mods and armoring. So someone means to tell me that they specifically mean that 'Story' as it relates to mods are ones that you get from the 'Story' of the game? If we are labeling Ops and FPs as 'Story', why are WZs not 'Story'?

    In fact, most WZs have a narrative lead in, explaining why you are doing what you are about to do. So why was there a need to specifically say 'Story' and PvP as separate terms? Even further that using this illogical contextual interpretation of 'Story' would actually make it apply to Events as well. They felt the need to distinguish that term differentially as well.

  4. #224
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Glad to see they're still going down the path of "let's make the free experience so bad that they'll have to subscribe to enjoy the game!"

    Really, it feels like they're going about this whole thing backwards.

    They should be approaching this as, "How do we make an enjoyable game for free players, and then provide value and incentive for them to use the cash shop or subscribe." you you see in other games (DCUO is the best example of this right now)

    They seem to be approaching this from, "How can we not cheapen the experience of subscribers during this transition." (almost their words verbatum) That's kinda backwards. They should be going "How to improve the value of that subscription without heavily restricting free players, so that we can draw in new blood."

    Just doesn't make sense to me : /
    Sorry, just couldn't let it to rest. It just keeps reminding of the following:

    07-31-2012 EA cites "choice" as the reason for the switch, and BioWare GM Matt Bromberg said in an interview with IGN that the free-to-play decision is less about subscriber losses as much as it is the market:

    "There has been some decline in our subscriber numbers, but I wouldn't say that's what's driving the decision...what's happened in the marketplace is that free-to-play has really become the market standard for MMOs and we felt like there were both potentially millions of new players who were Star Wars fans who never tasted the game because the subscription was a barrier. Our research also told us that a lot of the folks who we had earlier on who left the game would like to come back and try some of the new features and content that we've put into the game since they've left if the subscription wasn't a barrier. So we feel like the market and our players are telling us that greater access is what they want and so we're really responding to that."

    Greater access, it sure does a good job of providing greater "access". And for some ppl here, please don't go mentioning about the free story content game feature. I don't consider that greater access, it's just free/extended trial in my eyes. You don't have to agree with me, but that is how I see it. Time will tell, how their FTP/Freemium/Sub will work out. Now the only interesting piece of information is how much euros you have to pay for cartel coins. I still am waiting for that info...
    Last edited by mmoc907bd1685c; 2012-11-01 at 01:10 PM.

  5. #225
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEmperor View Post
    "There has been some decline in our subscriber numbers, but I wouldn't say that's what's driving the decision...what's happened in the marketplace is that free-to-play has really become the market standard for MMOs and we felt like there were both potentially millions of new players who were Star Wars fans who never tasted the game because the subscription was a barrier. Our research also told us that a lot of the folks who we had earlier on who left the game would like to come back and try some of the new features and content that we've put into the game since they've left if the subscription wasn't a barrier. So we feel like the market and our players are telling us that greater access is what they want and so we're really responding to that."
    Here's another hilarious Matt B quote:
    “My primary intention is to make as many people play this beautiful game that we’ve made. It just so happens that the business will naturally grow as more people come to play the game, but we’re not trying to squeeze every single penny out of it. A lot of other games that have moved from subscription to hybrid haven’t lost as many customers as you might think, in fact a lot of them have gained subscribers.”

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEmperor View Post

    "There has been some decline in our subscriber numbers, but I wouldn't say that's what's driving the decision...what's happened in the marketplace is that free-to-play has really become the market standard for MMOs and we felt like there were both potentially millions of new players who were Star Wars fans who never tasted the game because the subscription was a barrier. Our research also told us that a lot of the folks who we had earlier on who left the game would like to come back and try some of the new features and content that we've put into the game since they've left if the subscription wasn't a barrier. So we feel like the market and our players are telling us that greater access is what they want and so we're really responding to that."
    I like how they acknowledge that f2p is now a standard but proceed to release a f2p model that looks like its from 2006.

    It's like EAs standard is to release substandard everything.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 02:08 PM ----------

    Anyone else get the feeling we will see
    Recount: 2000 cartel coins
    Power Auras: 1500 cartel coins
    DBM: 4000 cartel coins
    Gladius: 2500 cartel coins
    Healbot: 5000 cartel coins
    Macros: 2000 cartel coins

    edit: Just realized that it might sound like I was negative on this idea. I am pro selling addons.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-11-01 at 02:14 PM.
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  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalek View Post
    I'd hardly call it debunked when I already said that it didn't include that gear as it has a completely separate unlock. There might be more events too which have artifact and it might also be linked to CE gear too like the speeder, not sure what it's classified as but it was purple. You are also still trying to link it to SM which has not been confirmed. Lets just agree that it's not certain and any speculation at this point is guesswork (pretty much what I've said all along as you can't refute what I've been saying and I can't refute you either).
    So I'm supposed to believe that they created a system that doesn't allow you to equip gear from World Events that haven't even happened yet? Your idea just gets more and more ridiculous.

    Also, speeders aren't Artifact gear. You can't equip it. And even if you could, the CE stuff was already attached to you, which means you can still use it because, obviously, you were a former subscriber.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 10:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by WoWGoneBad View Post
    actually the bowcasters both camme with 23 artifact and 1 legendary mods so yea even event gear can have epic stuff in it
    That may be the case, but you can buy 23 artifact barrels and hilts from the Daily Comm vendors. Which means they aren't directly tied to the Chevin event.

    I'm sorry, but the whole fucking game is a "Story". I just can't possibly fathom how anybody could read that tooltip and interpret it the way that Jalek has. You can wear ALL the gear that you want except ONE costume set and ONE Bowcaster weapon? I mean, seriously? Are we living in a logical society or have I stepped into the Twilight Zone?
    Last edited by notorious98; 2012-11-01 at 02:31 PM.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    I'm sorry, but the whole fucking game is a "Story". I just can't possibly fathom how anybody could read that tooltip and interpret it the way that Jalek has. You can wear ALL the gear that you want except ONE costume set and ONE Bowcaster weapon? I mean, seriously? Are we living in a logical society or have I stepped into the Twilight Zone?
    This is the internet!

    I really stopped reading most of these threads, Bioware is just unable to make a decision and articulate it in a manner that informs the consumer. Even when they have said things in the past that seemed cut and dry, they'd just change things anyway, so it doesn't even matter. The entire discussion is pointless, and seeing all the past fans of the game being as negative about it's current status as I feel about it, isn't fun.

    If you want to know what the live game will be, you'll have to wait for two weeks after it goes live.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Here's another hilarious Matt B quote:
    “My primary intention is to make as many people play this beautiful game that we’ve made. It just so happens that the business will naturally grow as more people come to play the game, but we’re not trying to squeeze every single penny out of it. A lot of other games that have moved from subscription to hybrid haven’t lost as many customers as you might think, in fact a lot of them have gained subscribers.”
    My favorite part is his last sentence. That's an utter disaster of a way to try to get his message across.

  10. #230
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    My favorite part is his last sentence. That's an utter disaster of a way to try to get his message across.
    Oh what, you mean saying F2P is somehow a 'hybrid' system, when the real models are not. Or possibly alluding that all of the other models have lost business, when they haven't. And then reinforcing that their goal all along is to get more subscribers?

    What could possibly be a disaster about any of that? Lol.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Oh what, you mean saying F2P is somehow a 'hybrid' system, when the real models are not. Or possibly alluding that all of the other models have lost business, when they haven't. And then reinforcing that their goal all along is to get more subscribers?

    What could possibly be a disaster about any of that? Lol.
    Well, freemium games are a hybrid system, and games like DCUO are spectacular examples of how to do it right.

    I'm talking about how he's trying to get across the idea that F2P/freemium transitions are net-gains for developers. He framed it in the negative at the start, and then turned it into the positive. Absolutely the wrong way to go about it, especially since all the data we have (they likely have more) shows that it's consistently a net-gain for those that make the transition.

    It's just a horribly phrased sentence. It's really painful to read -_-

  12. #232
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Not to get too semantical, but having a subscription option does not change it from being Free to Play or make it a hybrid 'freemium' model. I mean for MMO's as a standard it has always had that option. LotRO was one of the first adopters of F2P in America, so it basically defined the genre for what we are looking at. Sure there are now several models that don't have a subscription at all...but they have been collectively grouped as Free to Play games.

    I guess my point was that it was a very awkward way to describe something that is already standard as "Free to Play". Almost as if to distinguish their service as something different...almost a distancing tactic.

    I always read too much into everything these days, but yeah...not arguing semantics. A rose by any other name and all that...except without the sweet part.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    So I'm supposed to believe that they created a system that doesn't allow you to equip gear from World Events that haven't even happened yet? Your idea just gets more and more ridiculous.

    Also, speeders aren't Artifact gear. You can't equip it. And even if you could, the CE stuff was already attached to you, which means you can still use it because, obviously, you were a former subscriber.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 10:16 AM ----------



    That may be the case, but you can buy 23 artifact barrels and hilts from the Daily Comm vendors. Which means they aren't directly tied to the Chevin event.

    I'm sorry, but the whole fucking game is a "Story". I just can't possibly fathom how anybody could read that tooltip and interpret it the way that Jalek has. You can wear ALL the gear that you want except ONE costume set and ONE Bowcaster weapon? I mean, seriously? Are we living in a logical society or have I stepped into the Twilight Zone?
    Then explain what the Special event Equipment unlock does? It must unlock something different than the normal artifact one. I'm not trying to be difficult, but you guys keep ignoring that there are two equipment unlocks. It could be that the artifact one also covers the special event so you don't need both.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalek View Post
    Then explain what the Special event Equipment unlock does? It must unlock something different than the normal artifact one. I'm not trying to be difficult, but you guys keep ignoring that there are two equipment unlocks. It could be that the artifact one also covers the special event so you don't need both.
    What are you talking about? That's not what they are saying at all.

    Event gear unlocks all gear/items acquired from events, probably with the exception of certain epics.

    The "Story" unlock is most likely all, non event, gear up to "story" mode operations. Why? Because that would be in line with the rest of the trial mode (Yeah. I'm done calling it f2p). By this I mean, that with the raiding pass you can only do up to "story" mode operations.

    I'm seriously not seeing very much wiggle room, at least compared to what we are use to from EA.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-11-02 at 01:46 AM.
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  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    What are you talking about? That's not what they are saying at all.

    Event gear unlocks all gear/items acquired from events, probably with the exception of certain epics.

    The "Story" unlock is most likely all, non event, gear up to "story" mode operations. Why? Because that would be in line with the rest of the trial mode (Yeah. I'm done calling it f2p). By this I mean, that with the raiding pass you can only do up to "story" mode operations.

    I'm seriously not seeing very much wiggle room, at least compared to what we are use to from EA.
    I reread the Special Event equipment and it doesn't mention artifact anywhere, just allows the use of those items, my mistake.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    What are you talking about? That's not what they are saying at all.

    Event gear unlocks all gear/items acquired from events, probably with the exception of certain epics.

    The "Story" unlock is most likely all, non event, gear up to "story" mode operations. Why? Because that would be in line with the rest of the trial mode (Yeah. I'm done calling it f2p). By this I mean, that with the raiding pass you can only do up to "story" mode operations.

    I'm seriously not seeing very much wiggle room, at least compared to what we are use to from EA.
    Actually, the Operation unlock seems to unlock all versions of Operations. The only thing is that EC HM is the only higher level Op that F2P players will be able to be geared for. Like I said previously though. I have no problem with that. If you want to be a "hardcore" TOR raider, you should have to subscribe, in my opinion.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    If you want to be a "hardcore" TOR raider, you should have to subscribe, in my opinion.
    Or you should be able to buy access on your f2p account.

    This is suppose to be a hybrid after all.
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  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Or you should be able to buy access on your f2p account.

    This is suppose to be a hybrid after all.
    Meh. To me, it isn't really a big deal. You still have access to SM. It's not like HM is so much different.

  19. #239
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Meh. To me, it isn't really a big deal. You still have access to SM. It's not like HM is so much different.
    Except the classic raider market from other games will gladly turn to Rift, who offer a much more substantial raiding environment for the money. If they had the option to pay something other than a subscription to access this game, more of them would be enticed to do so.

    It's just not smart from a business perspective.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Except the classic raider market from other games will gladly turn to Rift, who offer a much more substantial raiding environment for the money.
    Whoa now. I'm part of the classic raider market, and I was there for the opening day of Rift. Leveled to max, was a Guild Leader, and had RL friends that played with me. Why am I not on the Rift section right now, posting about it? Because SWTOR replaced all other current MMOs in my head. I've tried to log onto Rift since, but I can't stand to do more than run around Sanctum for a few minutes. Despite how many people here are saying the game's dead, etc etc.. I can't see myself going to Rift, playing GW2, or even back to WoW. I've tried all of those games, and none of them do it for me.

    No matter how much content Trion releases, if the game as a whole doesn't appeal to a person, then it's a moot point.
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