Does anyone else like that blue posters have got some backbone?

[Kevyne-Shandris]

In other words, they shouldn't be adhering to "customer service" standards of avoiding conflict at all costs. Ghostcrawler certainly doesn't...he's plenty willing to tell someone when their ranting is counterproductive.

Yet, how he does it is why he needs CS classes, because his method of correcting the situation maybe appropriate in a classroom, but not as a business.

My personal view of him is how he treated me in a reply

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...ms-401/#post40

and it really does just take one bad impression to ruin trust. He assumed what I wasn't, despite that is not what ever asked for. I was irate with that post, and I believe to this day he still wouldn't understand...why.

Because he's an academic, and the CS side isn't his training or background. And this is how he came across in that "l2p" post. They felt what I felt.

This is why CS is careful to not scare away customers, because as companies know 1 person will tell at least 10 others about what happen and their disgust (and with the internet it's much more now). It's not good for business, and especially if the business exists to produce new products they want them to buy.

[Saffa]

The EU blue posters are pretty damn rude. That comment was rude and unprofessional.

The blue poster acted like a typical forum brat. Didn't like what he was hearing since it was a different opinion backed up with valid points he couldn't refute so he attacked the poster.

That poster never said anything "elitist". There are people who practically AFK or have no clue how to play in LFR and have no desire to learn because they still get what they went there for. Believe you me if there was a DPS req for loot people would meet it. If there wasn't food stamps plenty of people on that would get a job or find some way to scam people out of money.

Also, I love how so many people are saying it was an "epic" response. The player said nothing rude to him in the least. That's like talking to tech support about your internet connection and they keep insisting you didn't reset your modem and you say you did and then they blow up at you and call you an elitist.

Did you bother to read the whole thread or just that little bit and react and post about it. He spent a great deal of time trying to explain stuff to snowflakes who were so busy screaming their sad little egotistical view out they could not read what he said. This post was well down the thread and well deserved.

And about your views on such things as getting food stamps, I do hope you pray to god every night that you are never in that position where you have to go through the indignity of getting them or their equivalent to feed your wife and children, though I would guess by your lack of understanding current economical issues, you are well buffered from the problems many poor people face. Daddy's money is it? If this costs me my right to post in here again it is worth it - you are an arrogant s.o.b - perhaps it is your mummy's money. But pray you never have that choice as I do not see you starving to death.

[Deleted]

From my understanding, the blues are not customer service. If you want customer service, you can call their customer service line and you won't ever get any sarcasm. The blue posters are community managers or company representatives (who generally have other roles within the company...Ghostcrawler, for example, is obviously lead designer, but when he's interacting on the forums, it's as a representative of Blizzard and his design team). Their roles on the forum are to be moderators and to interact with players in order to communicate Blizzard's thinking on game issues and get player thinking on those issues.

In other words, they shouldn't be adhering to "customer service" standards of avoiding conflict at all costs. Ghostcrawler certainly doesn't...he's plenty willing to tell someone when their ranting is counterproductive. In their role as moderators, they should be telling posters when their behavior is unacceptable. And as company reps, they should be explaining their vision for the game, even when that conflicts with the opinions of the people they're talking with.

You don't work in any form of corporate world do you? Because if you did, you would know that EVERY employee is "Customer Service" their job title and role responsibility is irrelevant. When you are conversing with a customer, you follow standard company policy.

Now, as we know of at least 1 blue poster who went of the deep end and "left the building" you would be safe in assuming that every time something goes up in blue, it follows the same threshold.





Again though, glad they did

[Kelimbror]

No large company has the same set of standards for every group of employees that interact with customers. If you think otherwise, I'd have to say you're the one lacking a grasp on reality. If you think Ghostcrawler is bound by the same standards of interaction as a billing customer service agent, I don't know what to tell you.



And companies protect their brand in different ways in different situations. Ghostcrawler's job is not purely to ask questions and get feedback, as some employees' role might be. Ghostcrawler is also empowered to argue, to explain why they will not be doing what certain people are asking for, etc. Blue posters are as much moderators of conversations as they are representatives...part of the way Blizzard protects its brand is by having their representatives keep a tight rein on discussions they take part in, preventing them from becoming unproductive or poisonous. If they have to rebuke someone to do that, they will.

Are you free to disagree with how they do this, or with their policies? Sure. But acting like there's an agreed-upon, objectively correct way to protect an image via customer interaction is absurd.

Ignoring your attempt at flaming, which is fucking rude by the way, talking about Ghostcrawler having the ability to argue why they are making changes has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Please get some knowledge on what is being referenced. People are starting to complain (again, I might add) that CMs are getting a little too rude, snarky, sarcastic, insert adjective here.

Nothing you are saying responds to that at all. I could be sensational and use your words to claim that you think that some members of a company have free reign to be rude and insulting to their customers. If this is what you are saying, I don't really have the patience to continue trying to explain customer service to you.

[Twoddle]

Blue posts on the EU forums just come across as full of bullshit and propaganda. They are simply one way statements that have been vetted from higher up. You cannot talk to them or argue or ask questions.

Just as an example there are tons and tons of complaints about bots in the battlegrounds, the only blue reply on this subject within the last year or so is a statement along the lines of, "We notice this thread has gotten rather long, please use the 'report cheating' feature to report players you feel are exploiting.", and that was it. No mention of what they are doing about it, no answer to the suggestion of implementing captchas, nothing.

Blue posts are a joke.

[shanthi]

You don't work in any form of corporate world do you? Because if you did, you would know that EVERY employee is "Customer Service" their job title and role responsibility is irrelevant. When you are conversing with a customer, you follow standard company policy.

I'm afraid you're wrong. Virtually no large company has a "standard company policy" that governs all employee interaction with the public. Some employees are banned from discussing the company at all, some are required to follow specific conflict-management rules, some are empowered to engage in direct dialogue, even if it means arguing a case or opinion.

---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 01:05 PM ----------

Ignoring your attempt at flaming, which is fucking rude by the way, talking about Ghostcrawler having the ability to argue why they are making changes has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Please get some knowledge on what is being referenced. People are starting to complain (again, I might add) that CMs are getting a little too rude, snarky, sarcastic, insert adjective here.

I was no ruder than you. I didn't think you were flaming and certainly don't think I was. And my point in referencing Ghostcrawler was that he makes it obvious that all Blizzard employees are not bound by the same rules of interaction. Some have more latitude in what they can say and some have less.

Nothing you are saying responds to that at all. I could be sensational

You already were sensational with your silly Bobby Kotick theoretical. The point is that blue posters are by and large clearly allowed more latitude to talk to players in a direct and normal way, as long as they abide by the same rules of civility that players must abide by, and are not required to be as passive and formulaic as traditional customer service people.

You went off on a tangent that no one was arguing, that all employees must abide by SOME standards in order to protect the company's image. That's obvious. The point is that different sets of employees have different standards they are required to abide by within that overarching desire to protect the company image.

[yjmark]

I'm afraid you're wrong. Virtually no large company has a "standard company policy" that governs all employee interaction with the public. Some employees are banned from discussing the company at all, some are required to follow specific conflict-management rules, some are empowered to engage in direct dialogue, even if it means arguing a case or opinion.

From my expereince, that is not true. Many large companies, including all the ones I've worked for (most over $1B companies) have all had standard company policies that govern interaction/communication with customers.

The ones that don't are usually small companies that don't have a lot invested in stuff like that.

EDIT - To be fair, if you do not normally interact with customers, you may not even be aware those policies exist.

[Armourboy]

On this note, I have no issue. They should communicate like that. It would have prevented a lot of problems/continuance of whining over the years.


Then your understanding of customer service doesn't encompass the reality of the situation. Anyone that is an extension of the company should adhere to customer service standards. Most companies have this as a priority and legal writing in their code of conduct. I highly doubt that Blizzard is any different.

It's the reason why Bobby Kotick doesn't walk on stage for an investor call, drop his trousers while ramming 2 middle fingers up in the air and telling the investors to fuck off, they know what they are doing. Companies are a brand, an image to be sold. This translates all the way down to anyone in the company. I'm a peon for a large company and I have to sign several agreements to never speak on behalf of the company (ie, mention their name in any way) for fear of misconstruing their corporate position.

I agree with you, but I also disagree. I'm just a floor worker, and just like you, we have agreements that we are forced to sign. Most of ours has to do with social networking, aka if you talk crap about them on Facebook they can fire you. However, even though I work for them, I do have these agreements, I'm not required to adhere to customer service standards. Trust me, if we get a vendor in with bad product I've told them to their face that it sucks, I've told the people that we produce for that they are idiots ( mainly because they don't know how the process works, but with 17 years experience in my trade I know they don't know anything ) and while my bosses cringe, they go back and laugh about it because they know I was right.

There are times to be diplomatic and kind of take whatever gets thrown at you, and there are times when you need to come out with guns blazing. If someone thinks they can just run you over, they will. We produce for one company, and I've personally seen our plant president call out our vendor many times because the initial product they send us is bad. Granted he had evidence with photos and samples of a brand new 15 million dollar machine left in ruin because of it lol.

[shanthi]

From my expereince, that is not true. Many large companies, including all the ones I've worked for (most over $1B companies) have all had standard company policies that govern interaction/communication with customers.

I think you're mistaken. As I said, some employees are outright forbidden to talk to others about the company. Unless you're arguing that all employees in most big companies are forbidden from talking with the public/customers, it's obvious that different sets of employees have different sets of powers and standards in terms of talking with the public.

In my experience, it's the small companies that have uniform guidelines, because small companies necessarily have less complexity to their policies, since they're governing far fewer people and far fewer levels.

[yjmark]

We produce for one company, and I've personally seen our plant president call out our vendor many times because the initial product they send us is bad. Granted he had evidence with photos and samples of a brand new 15 million dollar machine left in ruin because of it lol.

Vendor =/= Customer. Very different relationships.

An no one is saying that Blizz should just roll over and let themselves get beat up. All that we are saying is that you generally should not insult the customer. You can have a backbone and prove a point without insults.

[Mikehuntz]

I love it when they put down someone when that person straight up insults them and the company for having ''not enough buffs on them'' or ''mages so overpowered nerf them'', as examples. I've read posts that the person would just pretty much call the employee the 'scum of the earth'. Please keep fighting back, to an extent of course, if those 'hardcore' players or just douchbags end up leaving, oh well it weeds out the negative attitude they have for this game.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Vendor =/= Customer. Very different relationships.

An no one is saying that Blizz should just roll over and let themselves get beat up. All that we are saying is that you generally should not insult the customer. You can have a backbone and prove a point without insults.

Indeed. I've haven't had any issue with GC or any of the devs. Sure some comments has sarcasm but if people here want to act self righteous as if the playerbase was never rude then you are just being ignorant.

[shanthi]

An no one is saying that Blizz should just roll over and let themselves get beat up. All that we are saying is that you generally should not insult the customer. You can have a backbone and prove a point without insults.

No one has yet argued that they should be insulting the customer, that I've noticed. Sarcasm is not the same as an insult.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Nothing you are saying responds to that at all. I could be sensational and use your words to claim that you think that some members of a company have free reign to be rude and insulting to their customers.

They don't.

Not even the devs are free to say as they please, as one person does not equal the whole company. None of those devs have that power. They sign employment contracts like anyone else. If they don't toe the line, even Blizzard's CEO can be fired by the board or the investors can revolt to do so (remember what happened at Disney, a much larger corporation?). It is a corporation, not a private business.

Blizzard gets away with it because the audience is usually kids to begin with, with fewer legal rights (and they wouldn't understand litigation anyway). Goto EA, there's class action suits by gamers, as the adults don't take contract violations nicely.

Bottom line, respect has to be mutual for a business to succeed. Be it a mom and pop or even Blizzard.

[Armourboy]

From my expereince, that is not true. Many large companies, including all the ones I've worked for (most over $1B companies) have all had standard company policies that govern interaction/communication with customers.

The ones that don't are usually small companies that don't have a lot invested in stuff like that.

EDIT - To be fair, if you do not normally interact with customers, you may not even be aware those policies exist.

I work for one of the largest companies in the world and you are correct in that we have set policies for all employees, but there are still some differences depending on your job. I can say and do things that our managers just couldn't get away with, but then there are things the plant President can say and get away with that I can't or the managers can't.

[yjmark]

I work for one of the largest companies in the world and you are correct in that we have set policies for all employees, but there are still some differences depending on your job. I can say and do things that our managers just couldn't get away with, but then there are things the plant President can say and get away with that I can't or the managers can't.

Do any of your policies state you can publicly insult a customer via sarcasm? Somehow I doubt it.

[Armourboy]

Vendor =/= Customer. Very different relationships.

An no one is saying that Blizz should just roll over and let themselves get beat up. All that we are saying is that you generally should not insult the customer. You can have a backbone and prove a point without insults.

In our case our vendor is also our customer. They supply the material, we produce what we do and send it back to them. Trust me I've seen things get fairly nasty at times with some employees, but at the same time had others said that same thing they would of been fired. Its all about job position.

[halfawake]

That's not an elitist, thats just a douchbag. There's a difference. An elitist is someone who goes above and beyond to achieve the maximum or near the maximum or even striving to reach the maximum status of his/her character by any circumstance. This does not include their social interaction.

Agree about the poster being a douchebag but disagree on definition of elitist. An elitist thinks he is better than everyone because he achieves the highest possible ranks. An elite person doesn't necessarily equal an elitist person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism

[yjmark]

No one has yet argued that they should be insulting the customer, that I've noticed. Sarcasm is not the same as an insult.

The sarcasm was an indirect insult. Very few companies approve of publicly using sarcasm as a backhanded insult to customers.

[Anjerith]

I love it, I only wish they'd practiced it a few years earlier to curb a lot of the problems with the community we see today.